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Healthcare profiteering - rip off in plain sight.

Yeah.. please explain how they can be SINGLE PAYER... when they are two different insurances?
because by definition, they are single payer. the government is the payer.
Single payer means just that... SINGLE PAYER..in other words..ONE insurance..
no. this is why you need to stop discussing topics you are completely ignorant of.
(usually government but not necessarily)...that covers a collection of medical services for a countries people. (usually basic medical/emergency services).
right. medicare/Medicaid both by definition are single payer.
No..by definition.. medicare.. and medicaid are NOT single payer.
they are both single payer, by definition.
Thats why you don;t have a clue what you are talking about...
because I'm schooling you? lol ok.
Thats why to go to a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM... we would have to have MEDICARE FOR ALL..
correct. As medicare is a single payer program, we would simply remove the age requirement for enrollment.
And not Medicaid for some and Medicare for some and Va for some and government subsidized private insurance for some.
correct, we would get rid of the other systems and place everyone on either Medicaid for all or medicare for all. They are both single payer programs.
Go do some research and when you understand the basics of what single payer is... THEN you come back and discuss.
I've already done the research. It's why I keep correcting you.
Do some research.
yes, you really need to.
 
Yep. I know exactly what we spend. And I know why.

Bingo.. see above.

So? Do you think its possible..just possible.. that other countries may spend less on healthcare.. partially because they pay LOWER WAGES..than we do in the US?



Not well..so why would you want to make it worse by paying doctors, nurses, technicians, medical billing personnel, speech therapists, physical therapists etc.. less?



Bingo... so what happens if we try to lower the cost of healthcare like other countries.. and reduce the number of jobs and reduce wages.?

Do you think the economy gets BETTER with fewer jobs and lower salaries?

Tons. Many of my employees are those very same doctors. Especially in the rural areas. Many foreign trained physicians can get a visa if they are going to work in a underserved area.

Absolutely. First because it means that american trained doctors are making more.. and those Doctors of the World making more?

Where are they buying houses, oh right.. in the US..and buying american cars, and spending their money in american shops, and the money that the hospital takes in because of their work? That money goes to pay the housekeeping staff, and the x ray techs and the nurses, and the receptionist and and and..... the list goes on.



Actually no.. depending on how we get to universal healthcare.. it depends. Universal healthcare could actually mean a greater demand for doctors and more doctors coming to the US. More people with insurance.. means potentially more demand.

If we get to universal healthcare by a single payer.. with lower reimbursement? Then you would likely see MORE foreign trained doctors.. as american trained doctors retire..and fewer americans decide to go through all that expensive medical training.. to make so little. Foreign trained doctors.. will still likely make more here than at home.

First of all if you know exactly what we spend on Healthcare , then I take it you have compared it to the price that Europe spends on Health care, and please no well America's bigger crap we all know how to use %'s right?

Yeah , I do think other countries pay their doctor's less, but I see no outbreak of sickness in those countries as a matter of fact the UK , Canada , Italy "remember poor Italy at the start of the Covid pandemic" all are doing better than the U.S.. Why is that?
Perhaps the CDC, The W H O. The Health organizations, all the specialist on Pandemic medicine are all lying to the American people???

Pay our doctors more ? Well I called my doctor ask for a prescription he said I had to have an an appointment with my doctor He spent 12 minutes talking gave me the prescription I ask for over the phone. That cost me $74. would have been more but my insurance premium was paid but my prescription drug insurance would not cover the Prescription they said $40. was not enough to charge on their insurance.
So yeah , I'd say there's more than one making money by rip off ,of America's healthcare system.

As far as what would happen with fewer jobs , not the first time how many manufacturing jobs were lost how much tax revenue how many people lost homes , cars and lifestyles on that deal , They called that progress .

Tons many can get visas , Why do you think that is? How many American students graduated from a Medical profession??
Are you telling me there is a shortage of American MD'S and MEDICAL SPECIALIST IN America???? WHY???


First where are these American trained Doctors making more?

I'd like to take a closer look at that "and the list goes on,cause the last time I had a X ray they charged me for the tech that took it and the tech that read it.

I noticed you kinda put a damper on Universal Healthcare, but last I check when the polls ran , in some a majority of Americans were for it in others it was a very tight poll.
I don't care what politician is in office or what political party is in office . You can sweep it under the rug for now , but sooner or later the United States will have to deal with Universal Healthcare one way or another.
Basically America is a dinosaur , look how many other countries have switched to universal Healthcare, UK, Iceland, Belgium, Holland, Canada , Cuba. CUBA???

Are these countries Socialist countries? That's the big excuse " Universal Healthcare leads to Socialism ," Socialist medicine". That's BS everybody knows that's BS.


Leave Healthcare the way it is it will lead to Fascism, don't believe me look around.
When Hitler came to power the first thing he did was to say the News papers were lying. everybody that agreed with Hitler stayed in the Nazi party those that didn't were killed or dismissed,





In the end he led Germany to a path of destruction . Attacking with armies he no longer had , with weapons that weren't even there .
Sound familiar?:peace
 
because by definition, they are single payer. the government is the payer.

o.

No.. that isn;t by definition single payer. If we used that definition.. Bluecross is single payer.. because blue cross is the payer.
Then Mutual of omaha is singlepayer.. becuase mutual of omaho is the payer.

Single payer is when ONE insurance.. a SINGLE INSURANCE..insures everyone for a certain set of medical needs. THATS single payer.

Sorry man..but you obviously didn;t do any research... how about you do some and then come to the debate.
 
Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] in which the costs of essential healthcare for all residents are covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer').[2][3]

Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). "Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not a private authority, nor a mix of both.[4][5]....
Single-payer healthcare - Wikipedia
 
No.. that isn;t by definition single payer. If we used that definition.. Bluecross is single payer.. because blue cross is the payer.
Then Mutual of omaha is singlepayer.. becuase mutual of omaho is the payer.

Single payer is when ONE insurance.. a SINGLE INSURANCE..insures everyone for a certain set of medical needs. THATS single payer.

Sorry man..but you obviously didn;t do any research... how about you do some and then come to the debate.

The fact that you don’t know Medicare is a single payer system, shows that you need to refrain from discussing this topic.
 
First of all if you know exactly what we spend on Healthcare , then I take it you have compared it to the price that Europe spends on Health care, and please no well America's bigger crap we all know how to use %'s right?
Sure. We spend a lot more as a percentage of GDP than other countries do..

And if you compare european countries.. you will also notice that they have widely divergent spending on healthcare as well. But yes..the US by and large pays considerably more.

Yeah , I do think other countries pay their doctor's less, but I see no outbreak of sickness in those countries as a matter of fact the UK , Canada , Italy "remember poor Italy at the start of the Covid pandemic" all are doing better than the U.S.. Why is that?
Well..because a societies health.. their susceptibility for disease.. has way way way more to do with other factors.. like demographics of their people, culture, geographic issues, environment etc.. than it does with the number of doctors.

Pay our doctors more ? Well I called my doctor ask for a prescription he said I had to have an an appointment with my doctor He spent 12 minutes talking gave me the prescription I ask for over the phone. That cost me $74. would have been more but my insurance premium was paid but my prescription drug insurance would not cover the Prescription they said $40. was not enough to charge on their insurance.

Well not sure of your point? So it cost you 74 dollars to go to an expert who had knowledge of whether your prescription was safe and was appropriate for you and your medical conditions. How much is not dying from taking a snake oil salesmans remedy or just having an allergic reaction or reaction from other medications you are taking worth to you?

As far as what would happen with fewer jobs , not the first time how many manufacturing jobs were lost how much tax revenue how many people lost homes , cars and lifestyles on that deal , They called that progress .
Well exactly.. and what has mitigated that loss in jobs and revenue has been the growth of healthcare sector..which has a very hard time outsourcing jobs to china.
So I guess if you want to call increasing unemployment and lower wages and lost homes progress... then I guess you would want to see the healthcare industry.. lose those jobs.
Not sure what your point here is though.

Are you telling me there is a shortage of American MD'S and MEDICAL SPECIALIST IN America???? WHY???
Actually yes.. particularly with general practiioners.

Its a function of increasing demand as the baby boomers age. And a function of retirements of older physicians with less recruitment of newer physicians for a variety of reasons.. from the cost of education.. declining reimbursement, increased stress.. less autonomy etc.

I noticed you kinda put a damper on Universal Healthcare, but last I check when the polls ran , in some a majority of Americans were for it in others it was a very tight poll.

Nope.. we need universal healthcare.. we just don;t need single payer. thats what I was saying about you not understanding the difference. Universal healthcare.. means everyone has insurance. Currenlty about 13% of americans don;t have insurance. THATS "UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE"..everyone has insurance. Which isn;t so hard to achieve in america.

SINGLE PAYER.. is a way to get universal healthcare.. but is not the only way. And single payer.. where everyone has ONE insurance that covers them (one payer).. has a number of pretty serious flaws with it. There is no free lunch with single payer. In other words.. it would be pretty easy for the US to go to single payer system that was dramatically worse than what he have now..
 

Yeah.. what you don;t realize is that you still pay for the "blood sucking middlemen whose purpose is telling you no when you need medicine".. when you have Medicare.

Medicare is administered by private insurance companies. In fact..providing administration for public insurance plans is one of the major revenue streams for private health insurance companies.

Since the Medicare program began, the CMS (that was not always the name of the responsible bureaucracy) has contracted with private insurance companies to operate as intermediaries between the government and medical providers to administer Part A and Part B benefits.
 
The fact that you don’t know Medicare is a single payer system, shows that you need to refrain from discussing this topic.

Yeah.. its not... please see danialpalos post just above this one. Its not.

Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] in which the costs of essential healthcare for all residents are covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer')

By definition.. having medicare,, medicaid, VA, and private insurance.. means that none of them are single payer

I really hope that you bother to do some research. You could learn something here. Its why you don;t realize that your "peer reviewed research".. does not say what you claim it says.
 
Yeah.. its not... please see danialpalos post just above this one. Its not.

Medicare/Medicaid is by definition single payor. This is just an objective fact.


By definition.. having medicare,, medicaid, VA, and private insurance.. means that none of them are single payer

I really hope that you bother to do some research. You could learn something here. Its why you don;t realize that your "peer reviewed research".. does not say what you claim it says.
This is why you have no business discussing this topic. That you don’t know what single payer systems are is just hilarious at this point.
 
Medicare/Medicaid is by definition single payor. This is just an objective fact.



This is why you have no business discussing this topic. That you don’t know what single payer systems are is just hilarious at this point.

Yeah.. please explain how having multiple entities.. private, medicare.. medicaid...and VA.. are single payer.

Sorry man.. you are just wrong.. They are NOT single payer..
Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare[1] in which the costs of essential healthcare for all residents are covered by a single public system (hence 'single-payer')
Thats the definition.

we don;t have a single public system.. Medicare is not single payer.

and in fact.. when you consider Medicare Advantage.. medicare is not solely provided by the federal government.

Look... you are just plain wrong. Have a nice day.
 
Yeah.. please explain how having multiple entities.. private, medicare.. medicaid...and VA.. are single payer.

Sorry man.. you are just wrong.. They are NOT single payer..
Thats the definition.

we don;t have a single public system.. Medicare is not single payer.

and in fact.. when you consider Medicare Advantage.. medicare is not solely provided by the federal government.

Look... you are just plain wrong. Have a nice day.
I’ve gone over all this already. Learn what a single payer system is then you can come back and discuss the topic.
 
I’ve gone over all this already. Learn what a single payer system is then you can come back and discuss the topic.

I have;.its been shown to you... you wish to remain clueless.. .have a nice day.
 
I have;.its been shown to you... you wish to remain clueless.. .have a nice day.

I’m sorry that you have to detach yourself from reality in order to maintain your demonstrably false position. But you’ve been thoroughly proven wrong.
 
I’m sorry that you have to detach yourself from reality in order to maintain your demonstrably false position. But you’ve been thoroughly proven wrong.

Pineapple.
 
Sure. We spend a lot more as a percentage of GDP than other countries do..

And if you compare european countries.. you will also notice that they have widely divergent spending on healthcare as well. But yes..the US by and large pays considerably more.

Well..because a societies health.. their susceptibility for disease.. has way way way more to do with other factors.. like demographics of their people, culture, geographic issues, environment etc.. than it does with the number of doctors.



Well not sure of your point? So it cost you 74 dollars to go to an expert who had knowledge of whether your prescription was safe and was appropriate for you and your medical conditions. How much is not dying from taking a snake oil salesmans remedy or just having an allergic reaction or reaction from other medications you are taking worth to you?

Well exactly.. and what has mitigated that loss in jobs and revenue has been the growth of healthcare sector..which has a very hard time outsourcing jobs to china.
So I guess if you want to call increasing unemployment and lower wages and lost homes progress... then I guess you would want to see the healthcare industry.. lose those jobs.
Not sure what your point here is though.

Actually yes.. particularly with general practiioners.

Its a function of increasing demand as the baby boomers age. And a function of retirements of older physicians with less recruitment of newer physicians for a variety of reasons.. from the cost of education.. declining reimbursement, increased stress.. less autonomy etc.



Nope.. we need universal healthcare.. we just don;t need single payer. thats what I was saying about you not understanding the difference. Universal healthcare.. means everyone has insurance. Currenlty about 13% of americans don;t have insurance. THATS "UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE"..everyone has insurance. Which isn;t so hard to achieve in america.

SINGLE PAYER.. is a way to get universal healthcare.. but is not the only way. And single payer.. where everyone has ONE insurance that covers them (one payer).. has a number of pretty serious flaws with it. There is no free lunch with single payer. In other words.. it would be pretty easy for the US to go to single payer system that was dramatically worse than what he have now..

After all your responses after all your so called counterpoints .
It adds up to one thing MONEY.

Show me in any of your responses where you actually address the Healthcare of a nation , of Americans?

Want proof.
1 European countries have divergent spending
The U.S. by and large pays considerably more.

2.Well because of societies health , more susceptible to disease

This is why other countries pay their Doctors less because they are less susceptible to disease in their country??

3 So it cost you $74 dollars to go an expert to make sure your prescription was safe and appropriate for you.

Sorry to bust your bubble there Right winger didn't go down like that .
Actually When I first went to this doctor told him what I had showed him the medical records from Michigan telling what prescription I needed still he sent me to a specialist which after a medical machine procedure discovered that yes I needed this prescription the same prescription that I showed the doctor .
So after being charged $175 for procedures and counseling , my doctor could now sign his name renewing the prescription I already had .
There was no expert Doctor's opinion just a doctor asking a specialist what to do.

4. So I guess if you want to call increasing unemployment and loss hoes and lower wages progress?
How old are you? Where were you in 2000 when they outsourced manufacturing?
Flint Michigan once a booming town, today if you live there you lucky to get clean water 5 factories shut down in one month they shut down most of the plants across Michigan and the rust belt union or non union , what you think that led to, they called that PROGRESS.

Enough about the leaning of your post .

You keep selling this single payer insurance what other nation has it and how good is it working.
Cause currently if you live in America you want insurance you have to pay the Insurance company.
That sounds an awful lot like single payer insurance:peace
 
After all your responses after all your so called counterpoints .
It adds up to one thing MONEY.

Show me in any of your responses where you actually address the Healthcare of a nation , of Americans?

e

Actually.. I am addressing the healthcare of americans. Yes.. its about money. There is a projected short supply of physicians and healthcare providers. In fact.. with covid.. there is one now.

So there is already problems with recruitment. When happens when you decide to pay all those folks LESS.. to get the savings you think?

Yes.. its about money. Taking care of people costs money. Educating physicians and nurses and therapists and x ray techs takes MONEY.

Buying PPE and ventilators and hospital beds takes money.

Want proof.
1 European countries have divergent spending
The U.S. by and large pays considerably more.

Yep.. the question is WHY? I understand that. I understand why it costs more. One reason is because we pay more in the US.. in general. Another reason is the cost of education. Another reason is because we have more supply and more choice in our system.

This is why other countries pay their Doctors less because they are less susceptible to disease in their country??

Well.. they pay their doctors less.. because in many countries.. they pay EVERYONE less. The median wage in most countries is lower than the US median wage. In fact.. our poor in many countries would be considered middle class.

Many countries can pay their physicians less because they also pick up the cost of education for those physicians. its makes it much more palatable for a physician to make 20 thousands less a year.. when they don;t have 500,000 in medical education hanging over their heads.

So it cost you $74 dollars to go an expert to make sure your prescription was safe and appropriate for you.

Yep.

Actually When I first went to this doctor told him what I had showed him the medical records from Michigan telling what prescription I needed still he sent me to a specialist which after a medical machine procedure discovered that yes I needed this prescription the same prescription that I showed the doctor .
So after being charged $175 for procedures and counseling , my doctor could now sign his name renewing the prescription I already had .
There was no expert Doctor's opinion just a doctor asking a specialist what to do.

Actually yes you had an expert doctors opinion. Your doctor.. looked at the medication and medical records.. and realized that the medication that you were previously prescribed.. likely was one for a condition that changes over time or that the medication has various side effects, or changes itself over time. In other words.. you needed to be checked up to make sure that the medication that you thought you needed.. was actually still appropriate for you at this time. And obviously.. that prescription was written by a doctor in the past and in a different area... so you didn;t have anyone with that specialty that was following up with you. And now you presumably do.

So I guess if you want to call increasing unemployment and loss hoes and lower wages progress
Not me

Flint Michigan once a booming town, today if you live there you lucky to get clean water 5 factories shut down in one month they shut down most of the plants across Michigan and the rust belt union or non union , what you think that led to, they called that PROGRESS

Well.. what led to that was our competitors paying lower salaries in other countries an so manufacturing was outsourced to other countries THAT PAY LESS.

So our economy switched from manufacturing to service.. because jobs like in healthcare.. are very hard to outsource. So.. I cannot see why you want to see the US hurt the healthcare industry which is a huge source of jobs and wages.

You keep selling this single payer insurance what other nation has it and how good is it working.
Ummmm no. I really don;t. I know that single payer in other countries comes at a cost as well.

Cause currently if you live in America you want insurance you have to pay the Insurance company.
That sounds an awful lot like single payer insurance
Actually single payer insurance is where everyone in a country has one insurance that covers the essential healthcare.

Paying different insurance companies all over america.. which is what we have.. is by definition.. not single payer.
 
Actually.. I am addressing the healthcare of americans. Yes.. its about money. There is a projected short supply of physicians and healthcare providers. In fact.. with covid.. there is one now.

So there is already problems with recruitment. When happens when you decide to pay all those folks LESS.. to get the savings you think?

Yes.. its about money. Taking care of people costs money. Educating physicians and nurses and therapists and x ray techs takes MONEY.

Buying PPE and ventilators and hospital beds takes money.

Want proof.


Yep.. the question is WHY? I understand that. I understand why it costs more. One reason is because we pay more in the US.. in general. Another reason is the cost of education. Another reason is because we have more supply and more choice in our system.



Well.. they pay their doctors less.. because in many countries.. they pay EVERYONE less. The median wage in most countries is lower than the US median wage. In fact.. our poor in many countries would be considered middle class.

Many countries can pay their physicians less because they also pick up the cost of education for those physicians. its makes it much more palatable for a physician to make 20 thousands less a year.. when they don;t have 500,000 in medical education hanging over their heads.



Yep.



Actually yes you had an expert doctors opinion. Your doctor.. looked at the medication and medical records.. and realized that the medication that you were previously prescribed.. likely was one for a condition that changes over time or that the medication has various side effects, or changes itself over time. In other words.. you needed to be checked up to make sure that the medication that you thought you needed.. was actually still appropriate for you at this time. And obviously.. that prescription was written by a doctor in the past and in a different area... so you didn;t have anyone with that specialty that was following up with you. And now you presumably do.

Not me



Well.. what led to that was our competitors paying lower salaries in other countries an so manufacturing was outsourced to other countries THAT PAY LESS.

So our economy switched from manufacturing to service.. because jobs like in healthcare.. are very hard to outsource. So.. I cannot see why you want to see the US hurt the healthcare industry which is a huge source of jobs and wages.

Ummmm no. I really don;t. I know that single payer in other countries comes at a cost as well.

Actually single payer insurance is where everyone in a country has one insurance that covers the essential healthcare.

Paying different insurance companies all over america.. which is what we have.. is by definition.. not single payer.

The Insurance companies single payer or not are in for a big let down one way or the other.
Cause even if this Covid 19 went away today "TODAY THIS VERY MINUTE" Americans small business , unemployed Elderly and poor , will just start digging their way out of a economic hole this pandemic put us in.

If you actually believe that as soon as this pandemic is over everything is going to be AOK, that the economic system in America will just fit right into place at being higher and all the small business will just go back to the way things were or that the good old donations for charity that average Americans usually give is just going to start fresh again, you been listening to a slick Con Artist , Salesman.

Americans have heard this before not that long ago, remember these words " Michigan , and other states "LIBERATE YOURSELVES"????
They did where are they today containing the second wave of Covid 19 patients.
Remember these words I know how to stop the spread of Corona virus, test less people????

Now Trump is saying just wait a while longer the ECONOMIC SYSTEM in America will be higher than it's ever been, the good times for America is here now but with me as President "barring of course mail in voting or not too many people voting" America will be greater than it's ever been.

I have a response to that I am an American
I don't care if my country is great or not , what I do care is if my country id good or not

.Whether my country is just for the rich and the strong or for all Americans ,
Whether my country is for just the white race or for all races White , Black, Brown , Yellow , Red.,.

Whether my country stands for Peace or War, to argue or to negotiate,
I do not want a leader of "my Country America " TO KNOW EVERYTHING, for as Einstein said " a man who knows everything is foolish , for he has nothing left to learn".:peace

If any leader is short in one of these the job of leading this nation is out of his /her reach.:peace
 
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