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I predict cash will be outlawed very soon

Kushinator said:
Those are maximum values. A snot-rag from a person with COVID-19 is going to be contaminated longer than if the same person sneezes in their hand and touches a door handle.
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you don't know that..it depends on many different circumstances. If the person sneezes in their hand and touches the door handle there are contagions in that touch, just like when you sneeze into a rag and someone touches it.
 
ClaraD said:
you don't know that..
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I do know that contamination levels are greatly influenced by the actual amount of infectious material, often referred to as the tissue-culture infectious dose.

If the person sneezes in their hand and touches the door handle there are contagions in that touch, just like when you sneeze into a rag and someone touches it.
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Not denying this. But there is some research on this subject you might be interested in reading.
 
Ahlevah said:
I guess robbers need a job, too.
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I think the reason some states demand that merchants accept cash is because many poor people don't have bank accounts or credit cards. Many of them rely on cash to pay for everything.

It's rare to find a $1-only store that has credit card readers at the check-out stands. The local one doesn't. Everyone pays for their purchases with cash.
 
SkyChief said:
I think the reason some states demand that merchants accept cash is because many poor people don't have bank accounts or credit cards. Many of them rely on cash to pay for everything.

It's rare to find a $1-only store that has credit card readers at the check-out stands. The local one doesn't. Everyone pays for their purchases with cash.
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Yeah, and here's another thought: As long as there are criminals, there will be a demand for anonymity. If the government tries to curtail anonymity by outlawing currency, there will be a black market alternative, because, let's face it, you can't rob someone if the money can be traced back to you. :lol: I mean, I don't know what form it will take, perhaps digital currency. But until we all become angels it will be there.
 
joko104 said:
I predict what is coming next is outlawing money (cash/coins) - because it can carry covid-19. ALL money transactions will be required to be electronic - and Bill Gates says everyone should be tested for covid-19 and a chip put into people's hand linked to their smart phone with GPS so anyone positive or refusing to be tested can be required to go nowhere - monitored by the chip, their smart phone and monitors in public places - plus their electronic money no good anywhere but buying from home.

The DHS wants this using the same reason now any cash transaction at banks more than $3000 - used to be $8000 - must be reported to the government as an anti-terrorism measure. Certainly the IRS and all taxing authorities want this. No more failing to report income or collecting sales tax for a garage sale or selling your car or anything else. No more waitresses not fully reporting their tips. No more unpaid traffic tickets - just take it out of your electron account electronically. In this, there would be a deadline to convert all cash to electronic funds in your account. That cash would be subject to summary civil forfeiture for which you could - at your expense - try to prove you didn't come into the money illegally having the burden to prove you aren't a criminal.

No more need for tracking illegal migrants or any fugitive. Turn off their electronic funds and starve them out - plus easily detecting the person's chip - and detecting who doesn't have a required chip. No need for police questioning, just wave the police smart phone over your hand. If you don't have the chip, they take you in. If you have the chip, it would tell of you are not legally here and/or a fugitive.

No need to do tax returns. Since the government knows exactly every penny that passed into and out of your hands - and exactly for what - the government will just take your income until the taxes are paid or put whatever refund they figure into your account. Same for property taxes etc. No need for warrants for unpaid tickets. Just take it out of your electronic account. Civil courts could take civil judgments out of your account. There is every reason for every level of government to want cash made illegal.

Part of this will be making having gold, silver and platinum illegal. In 1933, "hoarding gold" was made a federal felony punishable by up to ten years in a federal prison, so don't think that couldn't happen.

All this can be done merely by saying "money carries covid-19." Due to the 24/7 terrorist campaign most people would demand outlawing cash - certainly virtually every Democrat. To most people now so deliberately filled with terror and hate - turning to the government begging, sobbing and ranting "SAVE US FROM THE VIRUS!!!" - the government can do anything it wants to in the name of "The War On Covid-19." It has already proven it can.
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You might be a little over the top with your predictions, but in almost every modern crisis individual freedoms are whittled away. If done slowly, nobody remembers what they lost. The next generation won't know they lost anything, because they never had it.
 
Waddy said:
You might be a little over the top with your predictions, but in almost every modern crisis individual freedoms are whittled away. If done slowly, nobody remembers what they lost. The next generation won't know they lost anything, because they never had it.
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Which is why those of us that have been around a few years are often alarmists. We see what we've lost.
 
joko104 said:
I predict what is coming next is outlawing money (cash/coins) - because it can carry covid-19. ALL money transactions will be required to be electronic - and Bill Gates says everyone should be tested for covid-19 and a chip put into people's hand linked to their smart phone with GPS so anyone positive or refusing to be tested can be required to go nowhere - monitored by the chip, their smart phone and monitors in public places - plus their electronic money no good anywhere but buying from home.

The DHS wants this using the same reason now any cash transaction at banks more than $3000 - used to be $8000 - must be reported to the government as an anti-terrorism measure. Certainly the IRS and all taxing authorities want this. No more failing to report income or collecting sales tax for a garage sale or selling your car or anything else. No more waitresses not fully reporting their tips. No more unpaid traffic tickets - just take it out of your electron account electronically. In this, there would be a deadline to convert all cash to electronic funds in your account. That cash would be subject to summary civil forfeiture for which you could - at your expense - try to prove you didn't come into the money illegally having the burden to prove you aren't a criminal.

No more need for tracking illegal migrants or any fugitive. Turn off their electronic funds and starve them out - plus easily detecting the person's chip - and detecting who doesn't have a required chip. No need for police questioning, just wave the police smart phone over your hand. If you don't have the chip, they take you in. If you have the chip, it would tell of you are not legally here and/or a fugitive.

No need to do tax returns. Since the government knows exactly every penny that passed into and out of your hands - and exactly for what - the government will just take your income until the taxes are paid or put whatever refund they figure into your account. Same for property taxes etc. No need for warrants for unpaid tickets. Just take it out of your electronic account. Civil courts could take civil judgments out of your account. There is every reason for every level of government to want cash made illegal.

Part of this will be making having gold, silver and platinum illegal. In 1933, "hoarding gold" was made a federal felony punishable by up to ten years in a federal prison, so don't think that couldn't happen.

All this can be done merely by saying "money carries covid-19." Due to the 24/7 terrorist campaign most people would demand outlawing cash - certainly virtually every Democrat. To most people now so deliberately filled with terror and hate - turning to the government begging, sobbing and ranting "SAVE US FROM THE VIRUS!!!" - the government can do anything it wants to in the name of "The War On Covid-19." It has already proven it can.
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I bet you a $100 forum donation that cash is not banned by the federal government. Pick a date.
 
Deuce said:
I bet you a $100 forum donation that cash is not banned by the federal government. Pick a date.
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1. Only fools make forum bets
2. It will not happen like turning off a light switch. It will be phased in - so neither us would, arguing over whether or not its happened.
3. "I bet you that in the future..." isn't a debate point.

I've contributed to the forum in the past a couple times via a 3rd party to remain anonymous, but even that is problematical. If there was a PO Box I could send a USPS money order to I'd send $1000 and consider it a real bargain. I've gotten hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours educational value, mental diversionary value and many other benefits from this forum and I am deeply grateful to the forum owner and MOST of the staff for their volunteerism for it.
 
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joko104 said:
1. Only fools make forum bets
2. It will not happen like turning off a light switch. It will be phased in - so neither us would, arguing over whether or not its happened.
3. "I bet you that in the future..." isn't a debate point.

I've contributed to the forum in the past a couple times via a 3rd party to remain anonymous, but even that is problematical. If there was a PO Box I could send a USPS money order to I'd send $1000 and consider it a real bargain. I've gotten hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours educational value, mental diversionary value and many other benefits from this forum and I am deeply grateful to the forum owner and MOST of the staff for their volunteerism for it.
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Fine, don't bet money. Just give a date. At what point will you admit to being wrong?
 
Deuce said:
Fine, don't bet money. Just give a date. At what point will you admit to being wrong?
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The first stage is already done. It used to be illegal for businesses to refuse cash - a requirement to block other forms of currency. That has been eliminated not only allowing businesses to refuse cash but also to use alternative currency such as bitcoins.

The first stage is causing as many people as possible to be able to function without cash, accustom to not using cash, and to accept that cash can be refused and only electronic transfers of monetary credits used to pay. In addition, the government has taken extremely punitive stances uniquely towards cash and even criminalized using cash in ways it is not criminal if electronic transfers of credits. It is a federal felony to secretly engage in bank transactions in excess of a few thousand dollars, but not illegal to do so by certified check or credit card - ie non-cash.

Since the government changed it's stance to the exact opposite in support of elimination of cash and even unique major criminal penalties for using cash, this is the first stage.
 
Another example is "civil forfeitures." The police can just take your cash - $20 or $2000 or $20,000 merely by saying the think it came from criminal activity. No evidence of any kind is required. Unless you can prove it could not have come from criminal activity in court they keep the money. But they can't take your bank or credit card - electronic funds - and summarily transfer the $20, $2000 or $2000 you have in electronic funds. Again, radically reducing the values and safety of cash while offering tremendous protection in the identical situation for electronic funds.

Even some government offices like country clerks refuse to accept cash. In those offices, cash is worthless and therefore not legal to use. Rather, they demand either electronic funds or a written bank note (check).

In that, I have proven my case in that already using cash is not legal in some government offices. But, as I stated, you would just argue with it claiming that if there any possible way a person might be able to use coins or cash I haven't proven my case - meaning then you would be arguing "but people can convert collectible coins to electronic funds selling them, so technically coins still have monetary value. Or someone sold a picture or painting that had money it that was sold for electronic funds and therefore the money in that picture has value - or someone loaded an old 12 gauge shotgun with dimes - so that money had value.

You would never concede and I've already proven my case.
 
joko104 said:
Another example is "civil forfeitures." The police can just take your cash - $20 or $2000 or $20,000 merely by saying the think it came from criminal activity. No evidence of any kind is required. Unless you can prove it could not have come from criminal activity in court they keep the money. But they can't take your bank or credit card - electronic funds - and summarily transfer the $20, $2000 or $2000 you have in electronic funds. Again, radically reducing the values and safety of cash while offering tremendous protection in the identical situation for electronic funds.

Even some government offices like country clerks refuse to accept cash. In those offices, cash is worthless and therefore not legal to use. Rather, they demand either electronic funds or a written bank note (check).

In that, I have proven my case in that already using cash is not legal in some government offices. But, as I stated, you would just argue with it claiming that if there any possible way a person might be able to use coins or cash I haven't proven my case - meaning then you would be arguing "but people can convert collectible coins to electronic funds selling them, so technically coins still have monetary value. Or someone sold a picture or painting that had money it that was sold for electronic funds and therefore the money in that picture has value - or someone loaded an old 12 gauge shotgun with dimes - so that money had value.

You would never concede and I've already proven my case.
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Allowing organizations to temporarily refuse cash is not the same thing as banning the use of cash. You've shifted the goalposts to include something that's already happened... and you are calling this a prediction. Curious choice.
 
Rather than starting a new thread, the elimination of cash is already underway and, again, covid-19 is the excuse. The richest people on earth have already used their 24/7 continuous bio-terrorism campaign on television, in the press and thru the Internet - which they totally own and control - to:
1. Successfully convert the United States to a purely totalitarian government system.
2. Obliterate the merchant class (small business) - because they have always been the guardians of individual, human and civil rights - plus are the economic competitors to the super rich.
3. Made tens of millions more American families dependent on government so they don't starve to death.

The reasons to eliminate cash are many. But the top of the list is the ability to eliminate ANY opponents - individual or organization - but locating such people and ending their having 1 penny to spend. For example, they can shut down all Christian Churches and identify all Christians by their electronic contributions to a church. The same for Republican and conservative organizations.

At the RaceTrack stores (the largest chain of gas stations and C-stores), they have notices that they will be requiring all payment only by bank card because banks no longer are issuing coins. The US Mints have stopped making coins. Eliminate coins and you eliminate cash. The local Bank of America has reduced their hours to 4 days a week, 6 hours a day as have others in this area.

There are many other reasons they want to eliminate cash - which of course Amazon, Ebay etc already have as they only allow most payments thru their system. This includes forcing people to use bank/credit cards leads to people over spending - then paying huge interest and month fees, to allow negative interest on bank accounts, and so the government can know exactly want everyone is doing at all times. This goes along with Obama ordering all new cars have GPS tracking the government can access - and of course in your cellular phones too.

Banks lose money on small bank accounts and few people keep much money in the bank. Force people instead to use a bank card and the bank can charge huge overdraft fees, interest rates and monthly fees. It also means every dollar a person receives can be taxes - the money directly taken out of people's bank accounts or even added to their credit card debt. Yet all that is virtually free to the bank since it is all electronic. Even where employees are needed, this can be done in India, China or where ever labor is cheapest - while tellers cost money for tiny accounts the bank makes no money on at all.

The EU is eliminating their highest denomination bill $500 EU and Bank Of America is urging the elimination of the US $100.00 bill. The Mint loses money on every coin they stamp and printing bills costs money too. If you sell something at a garage sale via electronic payment, you then pay a tax on it.

The main reason, though, is to be able to eliminate all political opposite by eliminating any funding to such person, group or organization.

The eliminate of currency has already begun. If you doubt it, go to your bank and say you need to buy 5 rolls of quarters or pennies.
 
Deuce said:
Allowing organizations to temporarily refuse cash is not the same thing as banning the use of cash. You've shifted the goalposts to include something that's already happened... and you are calling this a prediction. Curious choice.
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It used to be illegal in the USA to refuse cash but accept other forms of payment. This was necessary when currency was no longer in precious metals - and then was also no longer backed up by gold and silver - so people still believed paper money was worth anything.
 
Deuce said:
Fine, don't bet money. Just give a date. At what point will you admit to being wrong?
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It will done step by step. Using covid-19 as the excuse, it is being done as I write this in the first steps by the government. The Internet super rich have already banned money used for 99% of all transactions - which is over 50% of all retail sales in the USA.

Federal law now has reduced the sum to $3000 from $8000 how much banks are required to report to the government for cash withdraw. Banks are also prohibited from accepting ANY cash deposits by anyone but the account holder (unless ATM machine can be used) as another new rule. Secured loans (not credit check to instead using a CD(s) as security) also have been eliminated.
 
With the end of the USA as a free country, but rather a totalitarian country without rule of law, has us considering for the first time moving out of the USA permanently - the question then is "where?" What backwaters location would be safe?

Our oldest child (adult) is a super genius type and abandoned considering any employment in science or in the private sector. Rather, left the science world to go into the military to enhance a resume for seeking middle management employment in government - since government employment is the safest financially.

Our next older child (soon an adult) is moving to New Zealand. While we normally require our children as adults to 100% pay their own way, we will put up the money to make the move as a permanent and citizenship change possible. Yes, a person can still buy their way in if they can put up enough to do so.

It is likely we will stay in the USA, but we are way off in the woodland swamps and off the beaten track.
 
Court Jester said:
Unless hookers and drugs dealers begin accepting digital credit/debit---- then there will always be a need for cash.
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I figure it could take up to 10 years to 100% eliminate cash for minor transactions - and it will just take new money laundering methods for electronic money. It is understood that eliminating cash has nothing to do with criminal or terrorist activity.
 
joko104 said:
Bicoins should have been outlawed from the very start.
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Cryptocurrencies cannot be outlawed. If the US government bans cash as you predict, then there would be mass adoption of CCs and that would be the most awesome thing ever.
 
Another reason is that millions of American families refuse to use banks and bank cards for a variety of reasons - ranging from privacy to not trusting banks to illegal activities, problems with the IRS, not trusting the many other ways a person can suddenly learn all the money in their bank account has been seized or frozen etc.

Eliminating cash forces people to use SOME form of banking to have a bank/charge/credit card.

However those will be eliminated too, replaced with having the tiny chip in cards now instead in your hand.

Chipping people will also be brought about with the excuse of covid-19, just like it is the excuse that the government is installing a Google tracking app in everyone's cell phone - like it or not - and it can not be deleted.
 
aociswundumho said:
Cryptocurrencies cannot be outlawed. If the US government bans cash as you predict, then there would be mass adoption of CCs and that would be the most awesome thing ever.
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The government could outlaw cryptocurrencies anytime they want to. However, cryptocurrency is just another form of electronic currency without any government backing or protection. People have tried getting around cash by bartering and bartering organizations were formed. They all came to fail.
 
joko104 said:
The government could outlaw cryptocurrencies anytime they want to.
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Technically they could, but to enforce it they'd have to ban phones, computers, and all communication networks. Do you really believe that's a possibility?

However, cryptocurrency is just another form of electronic currency without any government backing or protection.
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That's a feature, not a bug.

People have tried getting around cash by bartering and bartering organizations were formed. They all came to fail.
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Bitcoin has been around for 11 years, and presently has a market cap of 117 billion. There are many other CCs as well:

List of cryptocurrencies - Wikipedia

The cat is out of the proverbial bag and there's no putting it back in. The future of money is a decentralized CC, maybe it will be bitcoin, maybe not. With cryptocurrencies the government cannot stop you from transferring money to someone else, it can't confiscate your money, it won't even know how much you have. There are thousands of very smart people working on the problem of getting money away from government control. The cryptocurrency ethereum has 200,000 active developers. It's only a matter of time.
 
aociswundumho said:
Technically they could, but to enforce it they'd have to ban phones, computers, and all communication networks. Do you really believe that's a possibility?



That's a feature, not a bug.



Bitcoin has been around for 11 years, and presently has a market cap of 117 billion. There are many other CCs as well:

List of cryptocurrencies - Wikipedia

The cat is out of the proverbial bag and there's no putting it back in. The future of money is a decentralized CC, maybe it will be bitcoin, maybe not. With cryptocurrencies the government cannot stop you from transferring money to someone else, it can't confiscate your money, it won't even know how much you have. There are thousands of very smart people working on the problem of getting money away from government control. The cryptocurrency ethereum has 200,000 active developers. It's only a matter of time.
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Try paying in a restaurant, C-store or gas station in cryptocurrency.
 
joko104 said:
Try paying in a restaurant, C-store or gas station in cryptocurrency.
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There are some, not many, but enough to show that it can work. Bitcoin is still too much of a hassle to go mainstream - that's the problem to be solved. For mass adoption of any cc to happen it has to be fast and easy. If it's fast, easy, and secure, then every business will accept it - why wouldn't they?

It's an engineering problem, and it will be solved, because there is an enormous financial incentive to solve it.
 
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