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A Democratic Republic or Athoritarianism?

Do you support Trumpism


  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
Very true.

It's fun to imagine what the left would do if Donald Trump were to pull off the SAME frauds & abuses that our untouchable "first black president" did.

Not that hard really though. Donald Trump would be in prison by now. But since HE isn't some "first" this or first that, ... he doesn't get to get away with crimes.

As a matter of fact, liberals busy themselves dreaming up things to accuse him of... "Hey, I bet we can impeach him for .... we'll think of something new, the Russia thing didn't work out."

Dishonest, hateful hypocrites & liars - liberals

That is exactly what the phony impeachment was about. Dreaming up something and then setting up a phony whistleblower to put it in play. Who knows what they will try next. they are in a panic now as they mavery well may lose control of the House of Reps in the November election and they will lose the power to impeach on a party line vote.
 
I think, politely, you are describing yourself, OpportunityCost. Time will tell.

No. again, you all need a civics class. The President is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States, and has full control over the DOJ. Every president before Trump has exerted similar authority over it, laying out suggestions and policies regarding sentencing guidelines. You don't like it because "Trump", but you really need to reign in the eternal rage of the now. :roll:

Don’t worry about my ‘rage’. Every time you mention a fellow poster it shows far more anger than any of us just discussing the topic.

I recognise the president’s level of authority but Trump’s use of pardons and attempts to co-other DOJ goes far beyond that brief: he is using it to pressure his rivals and reward his friends, as well as pave the way for normalising his criminality. This is where dictators begin; not just with ‘friendly’ judiciary and law enforcement, but a ‘compliant’ one.
 
I think, politely, you are describing yourself, OpportunityCost. Time will tell.

It was the Obama justice department that brought charges on a Fox News reporter James Rosen that did not hold up in court, simly because he did not like the coverage. Which reporter has Trump brough up on charges?

That’s better, some meat at least. How about less whining about imaginary TDS and more like this one please?

Now to address the point: this Trump/Obama dichotomy doesn’t really exist in my paradigm. It is not my job to defend ‘our’ Obama over ‘your’ Trump. I don’t see the Rosen case as a ‘comparison’ so much as a dangerous precedent. Alarm bells were rightly raised over their treatment of leakers, which is what they got onto Rosen about.

Now he also happened to be a reporter, but give the Trumpies time on that: they’ve already started punishing leakers and testifiers, as well as attempting to shut the unfriendly ‘lugenpresse’ out of press conferences and so on. More insidious, Trump has stepped up attacks on the very idea of the press.

The Trump/sessions DOJ did indeed investigate Ali Watkins of the NYT over leaks, probably using the Obama precedent. So while no charges have been brought against journalists yet, Trump is already moving in that direction.
 
What a ridiculously slanted poll. You want to see true fascism what the Democratic Debates. :cool:

Wrong ^^^

What is "true fascism"? You don't know because fascism (lower case) has been the form of government in many different structures: Japan, Russian, Chile, Spain, Italy, Germany, Ukanda, etc. Look up he 14 points of warning for fascism, and apply each one of the points to what Trump rallies and tweets about.

Yet, it can happen here.
 
Wrong ^^^

What is "true fascism"? You don't know because fascism (lower case) has been the form of government in many different structures: Japan, Russian, Chile, Spain, Italy, Germany, Ukanda, etc. Look up he 14 points of warning for fascism, and apply each one of the points to what Trump rallies and tweets about.

Yet, it can happen here.
I looked at the 14 points; simplistic and vague at best. Fascism is form of totalitarianism. Every Dem candidate advocates huge increases in federal government control, increased taxes and more intrusion into our lives.
 
False logic standard fallacy does not cut it for you.

Don't pretend you know logic, it doesn't help your argument.

Trump says the economy has serious problems.

And those are what, exactly? And do you agree with him?

The Pro-Trump and GOP narratives are fake.

Well, no, everything I have stated has nothing to do with republicans. Low unemployment, high consumer confidence, strong wage growth, new job numbers that are beating estimates... that isn't the republicans inventing anything, that is just the facts.

That is why Republican confidence in the fall is waffling badly.

What definition of waffling are you using, and give some examples of what you are talking about.

The new trade agreementrs 'are not' in place.

It's been signed into law, and negotiated successfully by all parties. Are you going to hang your argument on semantics? :lamo
 
Don’t worry about my ‘rage’. Every time you mention a fellow poster it shows far more anger than any of us just discussing the topic.

No rage, just amazed at how little some people understand of politics and government who choose to spend their time on a forum meant to debate those topics.

I recognise the president’s level of authority but Trump’s use of pardons and attempts to co-other DOJ goes far beyond that brief: he is using it to pressure his rivals and reward his friends, as well as pave the way for normalising his criminality. This is where dictators begin; not just with ‘friendly’ judiciary and law enforcement, but a ‘compliant’ one.

Begging the question fallacy.

What "criminality" is he "normalizing"? :roll:
 
You do not know logic at all, jmotivator.

Yes, “serious problems” are the words he used, yet he says we have a ‘great economy.’ I don’t know what Trump thinks really.

You can thank Obama for the good parts of the recovering economy.

None, the less those preliminary agreements of the negotiations have no altered that they are not “in place.”

Yes, those on the Trump stand do know very, very little about politics and economics.

Explain to us how you are using, the ‘beg the question fallacy,’ jmotivator. Look it up, please.
 
Which do you support:

Today it is clear we are living in a new normal. The current Senators, under the leadership of McConnell has demonstrated that one person can have a major impact on our form of government. There is no doubt that Authoritarianism is now, with no thanks to 51 Senators, a new form of governance, i.e. Trumpism.

IMO, Trumpism is akin to fascism, and a reader with an open mind and who has watched the behavior of Trump and McConnell will see much similarity to these 14 points:

14 signs of fascism - Google Search

fascism noun
fas·​cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Definition of fascism
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Please identify the policies and actions of the Trump administration that meet each of these requirements.
 
democrats are the biggest authoritarianist there are.
the only cult is the one going on with democrats at this point in time.

they want to control your healthcare
control where you live
control how much money you can have
control what you eat
control what you can drive
control how you can protect yourself.

you leftist and your silly claims amuse me.

Have democrats suggested torture worse than waterboarding? Have democrats suggested that the US commit war crimes? Have democrats insulted judges because of their ancestry? Have democrats spread false info on black on white homicides? Have democrats praised dictators and demeaned our allies?

All the things you mention about democrats wanting to control should be regulated and are supported by republicans as well. But “control where you live and eat” puzzles me.
 
Very good points. The excesses of the Obama administration played a large part in the movement that elected Trump. Without the uproar over Obama's policies, the Hildabeast would have easily defeated the weak establishment republican field that existed at the time.

Yeah, “A Traitor for the Ages.” With that title, it has to be a fair and balanced look at the former president. The American Thinker, aka The Paranoid Digest.
 
fascism noun
fas·​cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Definition of fascism
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

Please identify the policies and actions of the Trump administration that meet each of these requirements.

The only thing not accurate is the “severe economic and social regimentation.” All the other stuff you can find in Trump’s approach to governing.
 
The only thing not accurate is the “severe economic and social regimentation.” All the other stuff you can find in Trump’s approach to governing.

Then identify them. Be specific. Use his own words when you can.
 
You do not know logic at all, jmotivator.

Responding without quoting me? Bad form. :lol:

Yes, “serious problems” are the words he used, yet he says we have a ‘great economy.’ I don’t know what Trump thinks really.

Tell me what he said the problems are? Can you tell me?

You can thank Obama for the good parts of the recovering economy.

HAHAHA!! Hand waving nonsense on your part. Can you explain what "good parts" of the "recovering economy" we can thank Obama for and what he did to make them so?

None, the less those preliminary agreements of the negotiations have no altered that they are not “in place.”

Can you try that again in English? You realize that the Trade agreement between Mexico, Canada and the US has been signed into law, right?

Yes, those on the Trump stand do know very, very little about politics and economics.

Apparently he knows enough not to break it! And with all of the deregulation and tax cuts and trade agreements he must just accidentally be promoting growth, eh? :lamo

Explain to us how you are using, the ‘beg the question fallacy,’ jmotivator. Look it up, please.

"Begging the Question Fallacy" is an argument where the conclusion is assumed as part of the premise of the argument. The argument being made assumes that Trump's actions are illegal to perpetuate their illegality. Show me his illegality that he is perpetuating. (Hint: Presidential Pardons and Clemency are not illegal)
 
Yeah, “A Traitor for the Ages.” With that title, it has to be a fair and balanced look at the former president. The American Thinker, aka The Paranoid Digest.

If you are referring to my moniker, it is not personal...it's my own personal protest about of piece of **** legislation.
 
Jmotivator is not in charge of anything other than his poor form posting.

You know what the problems are, so, no, you don’t get “just once more.” Read moree carefully.

I know your dislike accepting that economic and progress is all based on Obama’s actions. Tell you what: what are the ‘bad parts’ of what Obama did. You cannot.

We were not talking about the Mexico, Canada, and US trade agreements. Read carefully.

The tax cuts have ballooned the deficit to the richies’ benefits not the workers’.

Show us which deregulation and tax cuts specifically have promoted growth. Trump is saying 2.4% GDP while the fact will be 1.1 to 1.3%

Yes, your ‘Begging the Question Fallacy” is obvious above.
 
That’s better, some meat at least. How about less whining about imaginary TDS and more like this one please?

Now to address the point: this Trump/Obama dichotomy doesn’t really exist in my paradigm. It is not my job to defend ‘our’ Obama over ‘your’ Trump. I don’t see the Rosen case as a ‘comparison’ so much as a dangerous precedent. Alarm bells were rightly raised over their treatment of leakers, which is what they got onto Rosen about.

Now he also happened to be a reporter, but give the Trumpies time on that: they’ve already started punishing leakers and testifiers, as well as attempting to shut the unfriendly ‘lugenpresse’ out of press conferences and so on. More insidious, Trump has stepped up attacks on the very idea of the press.

The Trump/sessions DOJ did indeed investigate Ali Watkins of the NYT over leaks, probably using the Obama precedent. So while no charges have been brought against journalists yet, Trump is already moving in that direction.

Imaginary TDS?

 
Ok, will do my best, for convenience in response to the earlier exchange.
 
If you are referring to my moniker, it is not personal...it's my own personal protest about of piece of **** legislation.

No I wasn’t referring to your moniker. If Obamacare is a failure, amend it or replace it. Isn’t that what the plan was before Sen McCain’s vote? My feeling is that the main thing the right dislikes about Obamacare - which was reportedly based on conservatives’ plans — is its first three syllables. Or, you could wait a few decades, and the GOP will find the ACA as dangerous to touch as Medicare, and will trumpet their support.
 
The only thing not accurate is the “severe economic and social regimentation.” All the other stuff you can find in Trump’s approach to governing.

Exalts the nation and race above the individual

- calls Mexican illegals “rapists”, offers no stats
- refers to all immigrants, presumably my father and grandparents, as poisonous snakes — on more than one occasion, no stats presented, even tho immigrant crime rates are lower
- proposes banning all Muslims and monitoring mosques

Stands for a centralized and autocratic government
- “I alone” can solve certain problems — Mussolini couldn’t have said it better
- no need to get more specific than to point out that his admin. has proposed tougher sentences for crimes committed by the peasantry, and pardons those committed by the aristocrats, he has spread hugely false info on black on white homicide, told cops to be rough on suspects, suggested torture worse than waterboarding, and suggested our military commit war crimes (“take out their families” — including pregnant women? President ProLife) for actions similar to what Nazi’s were hanged for, and of course, referred to those golden days when protesters were taken out on stretchers.

Forcible suppression of the opposition
- “forcible” is a stretch, but “I can do anything” comes close to defining his approach

Admittedly, Trump’s fascism is more style than substance. His preening
 
Exalts the nation and race above the individual

- calls Mexican illegals “rapists”, offers no stats
- refers to all immigrants, presumably my father and grandparents, as poisonous snakes — on more than one occasion, no stats presented, even tho immigrant crime rates are lower
- proposes banning all Muslims and monitoring mosques

Stands for a centralized and autocratic government
- “I alone” can solve certain problems — Mussolini couldn’t have said it better
- no need to get more specific than to point out that his admin. has proposed tougher sentences for crimes committed by the peasantry, and pardons those committed by the aristocrats, he has spread hugely false info on black on white homicide, told cops to be rough on suspects, suggested torture worse than waterboarding, and suggested our military commit war crimes (“take out their families” — including pregnant women? President ProLife) for actions similar to what Nazi’s were hanged for, and of course, referred to those golden days when protesters were taken out on stretchers.

Forcible suppression of the opposition
- “forcible” is a stretch, but “I can do anything” comes close to defining his approach

Admittedly, Trump’s fascism is more style than substance. His preening resembles that of Benito. His MAGA slogan longs for some bygone period of the past much as Mussolini referred to theRoman Empire. The is also a famous painting of Hitler in armor as some sort of Teutonic knight. By the way, has anyone asked Trump when America was great and when and how it lost its greatness?
 
Exalts the nation and race above the individual

- calls Mexican illegals “rapists”, offers no stats
- refers to all immigrants, presumably my father and grandparents, as poisonous snakes — on more than one occasion, no stats presented, even tho immigrant crime rates are lower
- proposes banning all Muslims and monitoring mosques

Stands for a centralized and autocratic government
- “I alone” can solve certain problems — Mussolini couldn’t have said it better
- no need to get more specific than to point out that his admin. has proposed tougher sentences for crimes committed by the peasantry, and pardons those committed by the aristocrats, he has spread hugely false info on black on white homicide, told cops to be rough on suspects, suggested torture worse than waterboarding, and suggested our military commit war crimes (“take out their families” — including pregnant women? President ProLife) for actions similar to what Nazi’s were hanged for, and of course, referred to those golden days when protesters were taken out on stretchers.

Forcible suppression of the opposition
- “forcible” is a stretch, but “I can do anything” comes close to defining his approach

Admittedly, Trump’s fascism is more style than substance. His preening resembles that of Benito. His MAGA slogan longs for some bygone period of the past much as Mussolini referred to theRoman Empire. The is also a famous painting of Hitler in armor as some sort of Teutonic knight. By the way, has anyone asked Trump when America was great and when and how it lost its greatness?
 
No I wasn’t referring to your moniker. If Obamacare is a failure, amend it or replace it. Isn’t that what the plan was before Sen McCain’s vote? My feeling is that the main thing the right dislikes about Obamacare - which was reportedly based on conservatives’ plans — is its first three syllables.

You are wrong on both counts. Conservatives do not like the ACA because it makes health insurance too damned expensive. Healthcare reform was needed, however the ACA was not reform. It government mandated control of private healthcare. And your claim that the ACA was based on conservative plans is utter nonsense and likely based on a conservative think tank at one time proposing something remotely similar to it. Conservatives do not take marching orders from conservative think tanks. No conservative in the White House or Congress has ever proposed anything remotely similar to the ACA. And before you respond with Romneycare, Romney is not and never was a real conservative. He is a RINO.

Or, you could wait a few decades, and the GOP will find the ACA as dangerous to touch as Medicare, and will trumpet their support.

I doubt it. The ACA will continue to crumble under it's own weight. Long term, it cannot survive the repeal of the individual mandate. As for repealing and replacing the entire ACA in one fell swoop, that will only happen when both parties are willing to work together on an alternative plan that both sides can live with. That is what should have been done to begin with. Instead the democrats decided they had the votes and could pass anything they wanted to. Unfortunately for them, no republicans joined them and they ended up with no political cover for a largely unpopular piece of **** legislation. That resulted in a wave of republican victories in the 2010 midterms as well as republican victories in the majority of state legislatures. My own state legislature went republican for the first time since Ulysess S Grant was president. The ACA has been a disaster for the democrat party.
 
You are wrong on both counts. Conservatives do not like the ACA because it makes health insurance too damned expensive. Healthcare reform was needed, however the ACA was not reform. It government mandated control of private healthcare.

++ my cynical theory on the ACA was democrats: the foot-in-the-door notion. Let’s pass something to get started on this project. Republicans cynicism: let’s not have another large government program liberals can take credit for, like SS and Medicare. Some actually said that.

And your claim that the ACA was based on conservative plans is utter nonsense and likely based on a conservative think tank at one time proposing something remotely similar to it. Conservatives do not take marching orders from conservative think tanks. No conservative in the White House or Congress has ever proposed anything remotely similar to the ACA. And before you respond with Romneycare, Romney is not and never was a real conservative. He is a RINO.

++ Romney represents what used to be the republicans role in such things, moderating or putting the brakes on liberal legislation for defensible reasons. As I remember it, however, the GOP solution back then was proclaiming that “America has the best healthcare system in the world, and let’s try special savings accounts”. It apparently was the Heritage Foundation that came up with a plan resembling the ACA.



I doubt it. The ACA will continue to crumble under it's own weight. Long term, it cannot survive the repeal of the individual mandate. As for repealing and replacing the entire ACA in one fell swoop, that will only happen when both parties are willing to work together on an alternative plan that both sides can live with. That is what should have been done to begin with. Instead the democrats decided they had the votes and could pass anything they wanted to. Unfortunately for them, no republicans joined them and they ended up with no political cover for a largely unpopular piece of **** legislation. That resulted in a wave of republican victories in the 2010 midterms as well as republican victories in the majority of state legislatures. My own state legislature went republican for the first time since Ulysess S Grant was president. The ACA has been a disaster for the democrat party.

++ Correct. A lousy roll out and it’s demonization made it unpopular. As noted, the GOP in general tends to oppose government programs that don’t involve jailing people at home or blowing them up overseas, admittedly an oversimplification. For a version of that notion, however look up what Reagan has to say about Medicare (in 1960, I believe).

++ And approval of the ACA has grown in recent years, so the prospects of both parties agreeing on something similar but presumably better are increased. Look, the bottom line is that Obama’s quote (was it originally MLK?) about the “arc of history” bending towards more justice (I might have said “zig-zags” rather than bend).

++ As noted just above, the last one hundred plus years have seen progressive legislation take hold in the US, moderated by conservative changes, suggestion and rollbacks, from anti-trust to the New Deal to LBJ to Nixon signing EPA legislation to the ACA. (The same has happened in other developed and some lesser developed countries.) The great conservative Willian F Buckley humorously suggested that his role was to stand athwart the path of history yelling “Stop!”
 
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