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The truth about the PRO Act (pro-union dream bill)

Neomalthusian said:
You're basically saying here that you have no comment about the specifics of the bill or what it changes, rather you're just going to blanket support whatever the party supports.
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No, I'm going to blanket support this bill because the middle class has been under attack for over 40 years and this bill shifts the power structure. After all the things that have been done to them, any change is likely to improve their situation.
 
Neomalthusian said:
It's not be how unions want them to work, but just because a union wants something doesn't necessarily mean it should be legal. The point is there are ways to avoid the burdens of freeridership if unions really wanted to do so.
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it would require a completely separate contract.
 
It always amazes me seeing just how much the unions have been successfully demonised in the US.

It's like the idea of workers banding together to try to get better conditions and pay is somehow evil.
 
rickc said:
The only people who denigrate the ability of labor to negotiate with capital through unionized are either connected to capital or brainwashed by right wing propaganda.

I believe a difference in annual income of $43000 would be worth a few union dues.

The only chance labor has negotiating with capital is to organize.
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Well I don’t believe that amount, or any amount is worth dues which are really just a scam to expropriate my labor to pay for the left.
 
Peter said:
It always amazes me seeing just how much the unions have been successfully demonised in the US.

It's like the idea of workers banding together to try to get better conditions and pay is somehow evil.
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It’s not demonization for me to want to work without paying for left wing political causes.
 
Peter said:
It always amazes me seeing just how much the unions have been successfully demonised in the US.

It's like the idea of workers banding together to try to get better conditions and pay is somehow evil.
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More precisely, they are forming a labor cartel and using the state to force the company to "negotiate" with them.

Yes, that is evil
 
aociswundumho said:
More precisely, they are forming a labor cartel and using the state to force the company to "negotiate" with them.

Yes, that is evil
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Opinions vary.

Unions and union breakers have quite a history in America. That age old battle between labor and capital. For the last 40 years capital has won. What does the future hold?

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mrjurrs said:
No, I'm going to blanket support this bill because the middle class has been under attack for over 40 years and this bill shifts the power structure.
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Not toward “the middle class,” just toward the labor
lobby. Some of these provisions shift the power structure away from workers and toward unions. Unions and “workers” are not one and the same.
 
rickc said:
Unions and union breakers have quite a history in America. That age old battle between labor and capital. For the last 40 years capital has won. What does the future hold?
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Labor‘s victories should be won through legislation and labor standards.
 
Helix said:
I'm for undoing as much right wing union busting as possible. It would be great to see right to work for less revoked, as well.
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Being in a union can be the requirement to work for less.
 
joko104 said:
Being in a union can be the requirement to work for less.
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Don't believe I would join that one. Don't know why anyone would.

Organized labor sure must scare capital.

The right wing propaganda machine is hard at work.
 
mrjurrs said:
No, I'm going to blanket support this bill because the middle class has been under attack for over 40 years and this bill shifts the power structure.
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Not toward "the middle class." Toward unions as an industry. Just because you (or union leaders or Democrats) declare it "helping" someone or other does not make it so. If the bill were to give unions full access to all employees bank accounts, they would still proclaim it "empowers workers" even while it directly curtails those same people's rights. Certain significant parts of this bill should be seen as abusive and indefensible.
After all the things that have been done to them, any change is likely to improve their situation.
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Yes, those workers have been abused by their employers for so long, that allowing them to also be abused by unions can only help.
bomberfox said:
it would require a completely separate contract.
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Ok.
 
rickc said:
Don't believe I would join that one. Don't know why anyone would.

Organized labor sure must scare capital.

The right wing propaganda machine is hard at work.
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This is funny that you holler "right wing propaganda" given multiple critics in this thread, starting with me, have asked how and why (for example) eliminating workers' rights to vote by secret ballot election "empowers workers," or how giving unions full access to employee's personal information from their personnel files "empowers workers," or how either of these things "protects the right to organize." And no one has been able to respond, except with standard pro-union class war propaganda.

A lot of this is a matter of fair elections. We don't allow political party operatives (Republican or Democrat) go door to door pressuring voters to vote at their front doors by card check every other November. Doing so certainly wouldn't "protect the right to vote."

In my state the legislature is trying to 1) pass a constitutional amendment that takes away the option for voters to potentially in the future vote to legalize marijuana, and 2) they're also trying to severely restrict the voter initiative process. Both of these things are alleged by their supporters to protect Idahoans. Anyone who believes this is an idiot. Just look at what's proposed. They are trying to take away the democratic rights of their citizens, depriving them of the ability to even make a fair choice about certain matters. "We're protecting and empowering you by taking away your rights" is BS. Which is what major parts of this bill are.

It's possible for a rule to be pro-union and anti-worker, to step on the worker in order to improve things for a union. The bill is cloaked in language of protecting and empowering workers when what it is directly and audaciously and in broad daylight doing the opposite -- curtailing workers' rights in order to give unions as an institution financial help.
 
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aociswundumho said:
More precisely, they are forming a labor cartel and using the state to force the company to "negotiate" with them.

Yes, that is evil
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All unions do is help level the playing field in the power dynamic between employer and employees.
Unions have been a force for good all over the world for centuries and won many crucial rights for emnployees.
The only reason to oppose them is so that companies can screw staff by keeping wages and benefits as low as possible and then give that money to management.
Companies still manage to flourish in Europe where unions exist and the fear by US conservatives is unfounded and based on an odd love for the ruling elite who the simulataniously claim to hate.

All Right to Work states are is a massive win for companies who can freely exploit workers without feer that they can fight back and yet we have people say that's a good thing which is pure insanity.
 
Peter said:
All unions do is help level the playing field in the power dynamic between employer and employees.
Unions have been a force for good all over the world for centuries and won many crucial rights for emnployees.
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Again, unions are labor cartels. There are all kinds of special laws that permit unions to do things which would be a crime for anyone else to do. The above market compensation these despicable cartels secure for their members come at the expense of workers who are not in the union, and at the expense of consumers who are forced to pay higher prices.
 
aociswundumho said:
Again, unions are labor cartels. There are all kinds of special laws that permit unions to do things which would be a crime for anyone else to do. The above market compensation these despicable cartels secure for their members come at the expense of workers who are not in the union, and at the expense of consumers who are forced to pay higher prices.
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Obviously Capitalistic Pig! Fits you perfectly. No doubt which side you are on.

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