Who destroyed businesses in the USA, it certainly was not liberals

Much easier to have a community college do the training and then you don't have to weed out the failures.

ashurbanipal said:

Well...that's certainly how we have imagined and implemented our economy, and now it's as if hardly anyone can imagine anything else. So when you say that companies "have to go" to where profits are highest, the necessity is only contingent on how we've structured and understood our economy. Change that, and suddenly the necessity evaporates.

One way to understand my posts in this thread is as simply exposing the consequences of the economic system we have now, the implication being that those consequences are bad, they're getting worse, and we will be forced to change at some point, but probably soon, or face a very grim future indeed.



That'd all certainly be a start, but I'd go much farther.



Yes, surely.



Seems correct to me.



I would hesitate to make that kind of sweeping claim. Surely not literally all politicians are globalists.



You have a much more optimistic view of how those politicians and economic elites think about American citizens generally than I do.



I work in education (university professor) and I think the problems with public education are much deeper.

Click to expand...

I was a college professor myself. After 28 years in a public urban high school. We are not on the road to high tech education any time soon.

ashurbanipal said:

Not according to the data I've seen...which has been fairly considerable. Net profit expectations for any business from the immediate post-war years through the early 80s was around 5-8%. Many people don't understand the power of compounding interest here. An investment at 7% will nearly double the original capital in ten years.



I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here, but I might be inclined to agree with you. However, what I can tell you is that businesses who have offshored a significant portion of their labor tend to make profits in that range. Of course, that's not what they report to the public. But that's what they actually do.


Yep.

Click to expand...

Thank you....

Eriech said:

How was Cambridge able to create such loyalty? Trump and his voters have been beset by a barrage of focus grouped slurs since election day something in the range of 95% negative coverage? You'd think if the support was that shallow it would have abandoned him.
You mentioned red states and red districts.....wasn't the Republican going to win those anyway? It would be like Hillary campaigning in California rather than Wisconsin.
But I am more interested in the "grooming". The left grooms their voters at university, public schools and through identity politics those and their total dominance in the media and Hollywood.
How does the right even exist? Must frustrate the heck ......
Sorry to take so long to reply. Watched a good game between the Eagles and Patriots.....maybe I was being groomed

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Click to expand...

You'd have to check out the Congressional hearing and the European Parliamentary hearing to understand what and how they influence works.

You talk about the left and Universities and etc... but what you don't say or consider is how the long 100 yrs of segregation, used University, professor claim about eugenic's and all the books they wrote trying to claim blacks were inferior in their efforts to try and support and promote a concept of white superiority and the race identity that dominated politics when the arena was dominated and fully controlled by white men, as well as the media was 100% white dominated for decades upon decades, even history books were filled with every issue addressed as "white man as hero"..

A simple question to ask yourself, is how did a nation of white people buy into the system of "racial segregation"... when you grasp that type and acts of promotions of influence that spread and dominated society for 100 yrs... you won't be so quick to want to seek a denial of the power of influence.


The point that was stressed in Data Analytics... was to target the people who were on the fence, as well as those who were politically uninformed and thus easily persuaded and those who held various bias, which could be persuaded by endorsing and promoting imagery and content to play on those biases. Most of the "attack something ad's" that was extensively used in 2015-2016 and the made up stories were saturated through out the internet, but also spread by folklore.. The Tea Party engaged the frameworks for modern day, "influencing" based on race bias, and race bigotry and generalized divisiveness. People started to leave the Party, because it was becoming more and more un-recognizable that a party of fiscal responsibility. They realized it had long since departed from that, and used more of the Reagan Era mentality, that was built upon the Goldwater and Nixon race bias programming, of which Reagan Era Promoted to new levels, with the creation of the Federalist Society, which built upon the Nixon era crafted system of Right Wing Media.

Fast Forward: Time changed and now people know more about others ethnicities that lived in the overall history not only of America but the world, people now know many concepts of society and philosophy came from Middle Eastern Cultures long before Europeans were organized and beyond barbaric feudalism. History now expose to the youth of today information that was basically accessible at the university level and dealt with in special studies programs, but even those programs have been revisited to uncover information that was selectively omitted.
Now the world, which means not only in America, but other Nations are is undoing the Conserve White Nationalist Agenda that saturated the Educational processes. People are learning more of a truth that is extremely diverse in both ethnicity, race, culture and ideology...

"Conserve White Nationalist Agenda that saturated the Educational processes"?

What is left that is conservative in the education process? Even the military is being inundated with leftist tripe lest some sergeant use the wrong pronoun.

I used to be a c-span junkie (1990s). At first it was very interesting. Not sure anything of value comes from a congressional hearing anymore. Showboats on a stage delivering a narrative for sycophants in the media. Republicans playing to Sean Hannity the Democrats to everyone else.

White Nationalists; what are there like 3 of them? Washington Generals playing the Harlem Globetrotters with all their pay checks coming from the same source. A foil.....













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independentusa said:

CEO's and stockholders are the ones mainly responsible for businesses, especially manufacturing leaving the country. Cons like to say it was government regulation, but they know it came down to greater earnings by moving manufacturing overseas to low wage areas of the world. If started with Japan, then moved to South Korea and China and now is slowly moving again to places like South Vietnam, India and Indonesia. Always looking for the one more buck of profit. Even in this country some states have passed laws that do not allow employee salary increases without permission of the companies stock holders. they see all money within the company as belonging to the stockholders. It is one reason so many companies have moved their headquarter to New Jersey. So blaming regulations for these moves is the Cons way of deflecting from what they know as the truth.

Click to expand...

And just who do you think was buying all this cheap crap? R2D2? If anything it it paralleled the growth of Walmart, and incidentally the growth of the storage unit industry, and also BTW, the dot com boom was mostly foreign goods, and coincidentally the whole ****taree ended in the dot com bust. But lots of money was made and houses sold like hot cakes, and equity grew and so did second mortgages and that led to the great recession when over leveraged homeowners had to pay the piper.

Kinda like the circle of life.

Eriech said:

"Conserve White Nationalist Agenda that saturated the Educational processes"?

What is left that is conservative in the education process? Even the military is being inundated with leftist tripe lest some sergeant use the wrong pronoun.

I used to be a c-span junkie (1990s). At first it was very interesting. Not sure anything of value comes from a congressional hearing anymore. Showboats on a stage delivering a narrative for sycophants in the media. Republicans playing to Sean Hannity the Democrats to everyone else.

White Nationalists; what are there like 3 of them? Washington Generals playing the Harlem Globetrotters with all their pay checks coming from the same source. A foil.....

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Click to expand...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but its not that simple. First of all, Conserve Confederacy Ideals, was never beneficial for American Democracy.

From the Era of Goldwater's racist segregationist agenda, that was embraced by Nixon policies and then promoted by Reagan's agenda and policies. is Replayed by Trump and the Republican devotee.... it was easy for Cambridge Analytica to reach in and stir up that ingrained bias and bigotry into a racist fervor...once stirred, they could then attack any Democrat in the arena, especially after their 2 yr campaign to smear Hillary with the Benghazi Drama Game, that backfired when it was uncovered that Republican had the responsibility to provide security funding. So... they set out on other smear gamesmanship tactics... including playing to the historical race bigotry that simmered in the undercurrent as if to think it was covert, yet, Liberals saw how overt it was and is. Now, all society can see it, and no amount of denials gamesmanship can hide.

The late Republican strategist in the Reagan Era, Lee Atwater captured the dynamic in an infamous 1981 quote:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites … “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

Click to expand...

GOP: Distractions & Diversions are Trump Defense

The damages that racism has done to and within and upon and against America is a pure vile savagely atrocity....

When the tax code favored options as a form of executive pay and economists and graduate schools bought into the idea that corporations exist for the benefit of shareholders, the stage was set for the amoral corporation to re-emerge out of the New Deal and Saint Ronnie along with Milton Friedman sold it to a gullible nation. So here we are, serfs loving our lords and wondering if he or she will just give us a little more porridge.

RealityNow said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but its not that simple. First of all, Conserve Confederacy Ideals, was never beneficial for American Democracy.

From the Era of Goldwater's racist segregationist agenda, that was embraced by Nixon policies and then promoted by Reagan's agenda and policies. is Replayed by Trump and the Republican devotee.... it was easy for Cambridge Analytica to reach in and stir up that ingrained bias and bigotry into a racist fervor...once stirred, they could then attack any Democrat in the arena, especially after their 2 yr campaign to smear Hillary with the Benghazi Drama Game, that backfired when it was uncovered that Republican had the responsibility to provide security funding. So... they set out on other smear gamesmanship tactics... including playing to the historical race bigotry that simmered in the undercurrent as if to think it was covert, yet, Liberals saw how overt it was and is. Now, all society can see it, and no amount of denials gamesmanship can hide.



GOP: Distractions & Diversions are Trump Defense

The damages that racism has done to and within and upon and against America is a pure vile savagely atrocity....

Click to expand...

What have got to you lose?

The left will not give up fostering race as an issue. It is all the have left; identity politics. It is not the right that is holding people back.

Simply, in business and with individuals the right wants maximum opportunity the left wants equal outcomes and/or managed outcomes. We have all grown up generation after generation under these elitist polices. We all prosper with opportunity. Now and then a president comes along that unleashes opportunity. We have one now.

There was nothing to lose.

Elected Democrats have everything to lose. It's why they are all in on impeachment.

Interesting article this morning, by Stephen Moore. I hope to see Trump calling for these during the campaign. Tax cuts 2.0

Unleashing more opportunity

Trump needs tax cut 2.0 - Washington Times






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ChezC3 said:

Uh...there are less than 4000 publicly traded companies listed today on US markets. Do you think that's all the businesses there are in the US?

The US economy has been at least since the 60's designated a "Consumer Based Economy". That means consumer spending is what drives the economy not manufacturing.

What that means is if you lower costs to manufacture something, you lower prices in an effort to compete with other companies offering the same product. Lower prices increases consumption, theoretically. (I use this as a caveat to prevent "but what about...")

Delaware, not New Jersey is the State of choice for incorporation. With over half of publicly traded companies in the US being incorporated there.


I'm thinking maybe more Economics and Finance classes and less Justice Studies coursework would do you a world of good...just a suggestion.

:roll:

Click to expand...

“Consumer based economy” implies consumption of mostly domestically manufactured goods

Kreton said:

That is incorrect. American consumers were purchasing cars manufactured overseas because they were less expensive due to labor manufacturing costs. When American manufacturing went overseas consumers decided to continue purchasing that car. That decision to purchase cars manufactured overseas severely impacted other manufacturers and those that wanted to survive had a choice to make. Follow suit or go under.

The price wars of Ford and Chevy - driven by consumer demand for cheaper cars -forced them to make decisions. Quick way to lower cars is cheap labor and few manufacturing restrictions. It worked.

That follows suit for most industries.

When consumers have a choice between company A (manuf here for more money) and company B (manuf overseas for less money) and they choose B they are forcing A to move as well. And largely it isn't because they can't afford it. People are just as greedy as corporations.

The idea of cheap merchandise and high labor doesn't work. We can't have both.

Click to expand...

When the gas crisis hit during the Carter administration, the big boat Detroit heavy metal which consumed gas faster than I could quaff a cold beer on 99 degree humid day after exiting the unairconditioned NYC subway, fell in favor of Japanese econocars that sipped gas, and ran 50k miles with minimum repairs. Quality control became an issue the American auto industry failed to recognize. The Ford Pinto and Chevy Chevette hit the streets, and fell apart on the streets as we drove them out of the showrooms. They were cheaper than their Japanese competition, and sold well, but not well enough.

It wasn't cheaper labor or reduced manufacturing restrictions that drove American auto manufacturers overseas, it was quality controls, gas consumption ratios, combined with world markets and protectionism in the countries where the Americans wanted to penetrate the markets. On the other hand, Peugeot, Renault, Opal, Saab, Fiat, and a slew of other foreign automakers failed in American markets.

ChezC3 said:

Uh...there are less than 4000 publicly traded companies listed today on US markets. Do you think that's all the businesses there are in the US?

The US economy has been at least since the 60's designated a "Consumer Based Economy". That means consumer spending is what drives the economy not manufacturing.

What that means is if you lower costs to manufacture something, you lower prices in an effort to compete with other companies offering the same product. Lower prices increases consumption, theoretically. (I use this as a caveat to prevent "but what about...")

Delaware, not New Jersey is the State of choice for incorporation. With over half of publicly traded companies in the US being incorporated there.


I'm thinking maybe more Economics and Finance classes and less Justice Studies coursework would do you a world of good...just a suggestion.

:roll:

Click to expand...

The main reason for incorporating in Delaware was the lack of a declared purpose for the corporation. Once a corporation was formed it could be used for any reason with no modification required of its original paperwork, no approval process. A practice for most states today.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Respectfully disagree.
The entire Walton family, especially their father, Sam Walton, are and always were lifelong Republicans and talked of conservative values ever since the first Walmart was opened in the 1950's. The difference is in the KIND of conservative then and now.
Sam believed domestic manufacturing was the key to his success.
The very second the old man was in the ground, his children reversed that belief and in the blink of an eye 85 to 90% of all goods in Walmarts were Chinese made.

Click to expand...

Walmart shifted to imported goods when those imported goods became available at a competitive price, not when the old guy was put in the ground. Giving China complete and unrestricted access to our markets and technology without the same access to their markets has been to our detriment and Chinas benefit.

independentusa said:

CEO's and stockholders are the ones mainly responsible for businesses, especially manufacturing leaving the country. Cons like to say it was government regulation, but they know it came down to greater earnings by moving manufacturing overseas to low wage areas of the world. If started with Japan, then moved to South Korea and China and now is slowly moving again to places like South Vietnam, India and Indonesia. Always looking for the one more buck of profit. Even in this country some states have passed laws that do not allow employee salary increases without permission of the companies stock holders. they see all money within the company as belonging to the stockholders. It is one reason so many companies have moved their headquarter to New Jersey. So blaming regulations for these moves is the Cons way of deflecting from what they know as the truth.

Click to expand...

Stockholders ARE the owners of a company. That's the definition of stock. And it makes sense for them to find the cheapest labor available to perform whatever tasks are necessary in the making of their product. The purpose of a business is not to provide jobs. It is to provide something of value to consumers. The better the product, and the lower the price, the more successful that company will be. Jobs are created organically when you have a wide variety of successful (read profitable) companies. Forcing companies to pay more than they need to for labor harms the viability of their product, which is the source of everything that company provides, including jobs.

dixon01767 said:

Walmart shifted to imported goods when those imported goods became available at a competitive price, not when the old guy was put in the ground. Giving China complete and unrestricted access to our markets and technology without the same access to their markets has been to our detriment and Chinas benefit.

Click to expand...

Sorry but you are incorrect.
Sam Walton's biggest pet peeve was the flood of imports.

''Our continued success depends on our mutual reaction to a very serious problem with regard to our balance of trade deficit,''
---Sam Walton

chuckiechan said:

“Consumer based economy” implies consumption of mostly domestically manufactured goods

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't.

OldFatGuy said:

The main reason for incorporating in Delaware was the lack of a declared purpose for the corporation. Once a corporation was formed it could be used for any reason with no modification required of its original paperwork, no approval process. A practice for most states today.

Click to expand...

Me's thinking there's a bit more to it.

(but I like where your head's at...)

ChezC3 said:

Me's thinking there's a bit more to it.

Click to expand...

That's all there is to it. When I incorporated my first business in NY, I had to state purpose(s). As I branched out to other businesses, rather than use the same entity, I was obligated to form new corporations for each business. More fees and corporate taxes for the state, more franchise taxes for the city. Same principals, same workers, same office address. Eventually I formed a holding corporation in Delaware, and under Delaware laws, established sub-entities under the same corporate name, each with a different DBA filing locally. Saved me a small fortune from duplicative taxes and fees for what were technically small businesses at that time. As each business progressed or failed, liability issues forced creation of new corporations for those that survived and prospered. In the beginning every penny counts. Later you are glad to have the income to pay the appropriate taxes and fees.

Even today, investment properties I have are held in Delaware sub entities, protected from cross liabilities, even tho all income is passed to the holding corporation for tax purposes. At the end of a fiscal year, the difference in net income can be as much as 8 full points. Significant money. I could not accomplish this under NYS corporate law. The IRS recognizes it with no problems, the State of New York loses corporate tax revenues because of stupid tax law planning. Without the excess of income from NYC being the economic capital of the world, the State of New York would be bankrupt, and likely the city as well.

Delaware benefits by not having to levy other taxes on its citizens.

OldFatGuy said:

That's all there is to it. When I incorporated my first business in NY, I had to state purpose(s). As I branched out to other businesses, rather than use the same entity, I was obligated to form new corporations for each business. More fees and corporate taxes for the state, more franchise taxes for the city. Same principals, same workers, same office address. Eventually I formed a holding corporation in Delaware, and under Delaware laws, established sub-entities under the same corporate name, each with a different DBA filing locally. Saved me a small fortune from duplicative taxes and fees for what were technically small businesses at that time. As each business progressed or failed, liability issues forced creation of new corporations for those that survived and prospered. In the beginning every penny counts. Later you are glad to have the income to pay the appropriate taxes and fees.

Even today, investment properties I have are held in Delaware sub entities, protected from cross liabilities, even tho all income is passed to the holding corporation for tax purposes. At the end of a fiscal year, the difference in net income can be as much as 8 full points. Significant money. I could not accomplish this under NYS corporate law. The IRS recognizes it with no problems, the State of New York loses corporate tax revenues because of stupid tax law planning. Without the excess of income from NYC being the economic capital of the world, the State of New York would be bankrupt, and likely the city as well.

Delaware benefits by not having to levy other taxes on its citizens.

Click to expand...

See? That's more, and there is even more than that.

OldFatGuy said:

When the gas crisis hit during the Carter administration, the big boat Detroit heavy metal which consumed gas faster than I could quaff a cold beer on 99 degree humid day after exiting the unairconditioned NYC subway, fell in favor of Japanese econocars that sipped gas, and ran 50k miles with minimum repairs. Quality control became an issue the American auto industry failed to recognize. The Ford Pinto and Chevy Chevette hit the streets, and fell apart on the streets as we drove them out of the showrooms. They were cheaper than their Japanese competition, and sold well, but not well enough.

It wasn't cheaper labor or reduced manufacturing restrictions that drove American auto manufacturers overseas, it was quality controls, gas consumption ratios, combined with world markets and protectionism in the countries where the Americans wanted to penetrate the markets. On the other hand, Peugeot, Renault, Opal, Saab, Fiat, and a slew of other foreign automakers failed in American markets.

Click to expand...

I can admit I am not aware of the quality issue. Not saying that isn't true.

However there is nothing quality wise that can be done in Asia that couldn't be done here. They don't have magic finger or whatever. If quality was an issue here as you say, the quality was an issue because bringing things up to the same quality here would have been more expensive. No matter how you cut it it comes down to money. With manufacturing overseas costs less in terms of labor and manufacturing restrictions as you put it.

Consumer buy first on price and 2nd on quality or opinion of quality. Most people will tell you they believe American made goods are higher quality than asian goods. And they will buy far more asian goods on average.

Peugeot, Renault, Opal, Saab, Fiat, and a slew of other foreign automakers failed in American markets.

Click to expand...

I am not saying all foreign markets are going to sell. I am saying that American consumers as a whole spend on value.

American consumers will buy what they feel is the best value for them. When I say best value for them I mean right then and there with the dollar in their pocket. They aren't considering the repercussions, the loss of manufacturing jobs, the impact on trade ect. They are looking directly at the there and now. Businesses are forced to adapt to that. Consumers demand cheap goods. Not verbally, but with their spending habits. Any business that doesn't adapt to their customer demands fails or greatly struggles.

Since we are talking cars lets look at it this way. When Chevy and Ford started moving jobs overseas what did consumers do? Did they start buying American made Studebakers? (at the time they were very relevant I believe). No. Did they pay more for American made cars? No. They bought more Chevy's and Fords and with their spending habits they told Chevy and Ford "you did the right thing" by shipping those jobs overseas. And the big auto makers that left acknowledged the consumers spending praises with more jobs sent over. If Americans said "**** you" and stopped buying Chevy and Ford and instead rewarded companies wyho stayed (again with their spending habits, not verbal praise) we'd be seeing Studebakers and Packards all over the roads and Chevy and Ford would be gone. (coincidentally maybe the Lions would have better ownership )

My point is businesses can only succeed when consumers utilize their goods. When consumers on a whole demand they not do something, business will respond. It will likely cost money but consumers have a choice. What is more important keeping high paying jobs in America or getting a deal. Consumers choose deal.

ChezC3 said:

See? That's more, and there is even more than that.

Click to expand...

Merely an extension and explanation of the base reason for incorporating in Delaware.

ashurbanipal said:

This is incorrect, at least in my experience, which is considerable and relevant. Business managers and owners have learned ways to dictate what consumers do, at least statistically speaking.

For example, manufacturers began moving automobile manufacturing overseas at a non-negligible rate in the 1970s, and sold it as something that would be good for consumers, since it was (at the time) only a few jobs, and the lower labor costs would drive down the price of automobiles for all. But that's not what happened. When the lower labor costs were reaped, the big three actually raised the retail price of automobiles slightly, while taking the profits for themselves and the company owners. But, of course, in American cities, and thanks to lots of auto-industry lobbying, you need a car to get around, and so those economic elites could count on receiving slightly more of each American family's yearly budget, plus paying lower labor costs, all for the low-low price of having also weakened the U.S. economy.

Of course, the story is more complex still, as the decline of the U.S. auto industry was largely precipitated by moving jobs overseas and dismantling geographically concentrated chains of production (which model still obtains for Japanese and European automakers). But those decisions were taken by managers of the Big Three as a means of minimizing worker power in the face of increasing unionization.

I think you'll have a hard time explaining how consumers in the 1970s were demanding the same cars at slightly increased prices, while also demanding that jobs leaves these shores. Obviously, U.S. consumers demanded no such thing.

Click to expand...

the cars that Ford, GM, and Chrysler were producing were trash....the only thing keeping them afloat were their trucks

Datsun and Honda came into the USA with great running, well made cars, that were fairly priced....Detrot couldnt get out of its own way

The oil embargo hit...gas lines, and the little imports became VERY POPULAR and ran forever

Why buy a Grand Fury with that huge 318 in it, when you could get the Civic that everyone was raving about that got over 2x the gas mileage or god forbid a Reliant K car....

The metal work was better, the cars were better fabricated, and yes, the unions screwed themselves with their labor demands

The one thing the imports took decades to figure out was the Trucks....the F100 and F150 stayed king of the hill

Blame detroit...blame their engineers, their lack of vision, and their lack of a willingness to adapt and change

This from a guy that just retired from the retail auto business after the last 35 years

Kreton said:

I can admit I am not aware of the quality issue. Not saying that isn't true.

Click to expand...

American Motors and Studebaker went under because of insufficient quality control. Ford Pintos were exploding when hit in the rear. I bought a Ford Mustang Turbo, one of if not the first turbocharged cars on the market. The passenger door fell off at about 8k miles, the turbo failed at 12k miles. Chryslers had become so bad that bankruptcy was imminent, only scooping up the Jeep from the AMC bankruptcy saved Chrysler. Detroit lost consumer confidence. And it still suffers from that loss of confidence.

The standing joke was the difference between Japanese and American cars was that Japanese cars ran perfectly for the first 80k miles, American cars worked perfectly for the second 50k miles because all parts had been replaced.

American labor and the unions priced themselves out of the marketplace. They got a bit too greedy. They forgot they were partners with the manufacturers. And they paid dearly for that. Now labor is becoming a non sequitur with the advent of robotization. Robots need no sick time, vacations or pension contributions.

As a businessman, I explained to those who worked for me, pension funds benefit the fund managers not the workers. Better I pay them more money and teach them how to invest as a habit. Today they are all well off, far better off than if they were drawing down on a pension, which would also have benefitted me more than them.

What few realize with all the whining about lost manufacturing to overseas, the US retained manufacturing for the high ticket items, the capital goods, meaning the machinery needed to make everything else, do everything else. No other country produces the high quality, high profit mega trucks and tractors as made in the US. The loss of commoditized electronics, whiteware, textiles, with their low profit ratios did our GDP no harm. And the lost jobs were replaced in the new service industries. Time marches on and bean counters rule where the efforts should land.

FDR promised a chicken in every pot, who made the pot became irrelevant. My high end French stainless steel cookware was all made in China. I bought it all in restaurant liquidation sales and paid peanuts. Had I known, I could have bought the same from Macy's house brand, new for less. American made stainless steel pots and pans rusted, cooked unevenly and stained.

gdgyva said:

the cars that Ford, GM, and Chrysler were producing were trash....the only thing keeping them afloat were their trucks

Datsun and Honda came into the USA with great running, well made cars, that were fairly priced....Detrot couldnt get out of its own way

The oil embargo hit...gas lines, and the little imports became VERY POPULAR and ran forever

Why buy a Grand Fury with that huge 318 in it, when you could get the Civic that everyone was raving about that got over 2x the gas mileage or god forbid a Reliant K car....

The metal work was better, the cars were better fabricated, and yes, the unions screwed themselves with their labor demands

The one thing the imports took decades to figure out was the Trucks....the F100 and F150 stayed king of the hill

Blame detroit...blame their engineers, their lack of vision, and their lack of a willingness to adapt and change

This from a guy that just retired from the retail auto business after the last 35 years

Click to expand...

Sure, all true. Not complete, but certainly all true as far as I can tell. But it supports what I've said about who ruined American businesses, not the counter-narrative.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Sorry but you are incorrect.
Sam Walton's biggest pet peeve was the flood of imports.

''Our continued success depends on our mutual reaction to a very serious problem with regard to our balance of trade deficit,''
---Sam Walton

Click to expand...

"Mr. Walton did not say that Wal-Mart would pay more for American products or undermine the company's competitive advantages as a discount store."

And when those Chinese products became available at a competitive price, Walton imported them.

What if...? said:

And much lower quality.

Our current model only works if they sell more things to more people more times.

We had one can opener and one toaster my entire childhood. Now you're lucky if those things last more than a year or two.

Click to expand...

That because the vast majority of Americans are not willing to pay the money that it costs to build a quality product. It's why Walmart sells way more then what ever is main brand of coats are compared to a company like Arc'teryx despite that Walmart brand being not even in the same ballpark as far as quality goes.

Complain all you want but the fact of the matter is it costs more to make products in America and most Americans would rather buy cheap crap from China or Vietnam.