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Vapng vs Smoking

Gdjjr said:
I'm retired I have all the time in the world- lets start with constitutional authority and go from there.
Can you cite the granted authority for politicians to determine what citizens can ingest?
Can you cite the granted authority for politicians to encourage cops shooting people?
When those are answered we can move on-
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Keep going old man...I'll catch up later :mrgreen:
 
I tried vaping as a alternative to smoking, ended up smoking more.

I noticed something going on in my lungs when I vaped that I didn't like, so that was a short-lived experiment.

Now, look what we see happening...
 
Bullseye said:
I was reading this piece this morning talking about how the state of Michigan is banning all flavored vaping materials, except tobacco flavor; several other cities have enacted similar measures but it got me thinking. There's been some talk on the hazards of vaping - there's even been a death attributed to vaping.

So, I'm wondering why, if these entities are so attuned to the health concerns of their constituents, why only go after vaping. Don't far more people get sick and die from smoking tobacco? Why not ban the sales of cigarettes and other tobacco products. The percentage of people who smoke has been declining for a long time- why not just cut it to zero and be done with it?

Other than for about two days in Navy boot camp I've never smoked or vaped so I plead ignorance as to the attraction addictiveness.


I hate to be cynical (no I don't) but is it possible that to our elected representatives tax revenues from the sale of cigarettes are more important than our health?


Thoughts?
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Death toll from mysterious vaping-related illnesses rises.

yes there are people dying from vaping.
mostly from unknown lung infections that they cannot correct.

in some cases if they cleared up the infection the damage from the infection was so bad
it didn't matter.
 
Vaping vs Smoking
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i'd advocate avoiding both. however, they're currently talking about ~500 or so cases of vaping related health problems including deaths. meanwhile, smoking killed 480,000 people last year.

Fast Facts | Fact Sheets | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC

while vaping is pretty new and a lot of those smokers who died last year could have started smoking in the early to mid twentieth century, traditional tobacco smoking still strikes me as the greater danger. i hope that my kid avoids it like i didn't. however, i kicked it in 2008.
 
Bullseye said:
I was reading this piece this morning talking about how the state of Michigan is banning all flavored vaping materials, except tobacco flavor; several other cities have enacted similar measures but it got me thinking. There's been some talk on the hazards of vaping - there's even been a death attributed to vaping.

So, I'm wondering why, if these entities are so attuned to the health concerns of their constituents, why only go after vaping. Don't far more people get sick and die from smoking tobacco? Why not ban the sales of cigarettes and other tobacco products. The percentage of people who smoke has been declining for a long time- why not just cut it to zero and be done with it?

Other than for about two days in Navy boot camp I've never smoked or vaped so I plead ignorance as to the attraction addictiveness.


is it possible that to our elected representatives tax revenues from the sale of cigarettes are more important than our health?


Thoughts?
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Sure it's possible. At least with a few politicians. They probably know (as I do) that the price of cigarettes (or the tax on them) is not going to dissuade an addicted smoker from stopping.

As a former smoker I remember visiting New York where the cost of a pack was 3 times what I paid in my home state. I recall saying that if my State ever raised taxes that high on cigs, I would quit. I didn't.

On the vaping issue, I'd say the risks are less than smoking cigs. I suppose it's just a matter of choosing your method of death.
 
Bullseye said:
I was reading this piece this morning talking about how the state of Michigan is banning all flavored vaping materials, except tobacco flavor; several other cities have enacted similar measures but it got me thinking. There's been some talk on the hazards of vaping - there's even been a death attributed to vaping.

So, I'm wondering why, if these entities are so attuned to the health concerns of their constituents, why only go after vaping. Don't far more people get sick and die from smoking tobacco? Why not ban the sales of cigarettes and other tobacco products. The percentage of people who smoke has been declining for a long time- why not just cut it to zero and be done with it?

Other than for about two days in Navy boot camp I've never smoked or vaped so I plead ignorance as to the attraction addictiveness.


I hate to be cynical (no I don't) but is it possible that to our elected representatives tax revenues from the sale of cigarettes are more important than our health?


Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well, Hell, they haven't even banned cigarettes yet.....
Strange.
 
Bullseye said:
I was reading this piece this morning talking about how the state of Michigan is banning all flavored vaping materials, except tobacco flavor; several other cities have enacted similar measures but it got me thinking. There's been some talk on the hazards of vaping - there's even been a death attributed to vaping.

So, I'm wondering why, if these entities are so attuned to the health concerns of their constituents, why only go after vaping. Don't far more people get sick and die from smoking tobacco? Why not ban the sales of cigarettes and other tobacco products. The percentage of people who smoke has been declining for a long time- why not just cut it to zero and be done with it?

Other than for about two days in Navy boot camp I've never smoked or vaped so I plead ignorance as to the attraction addictiveness.


I hate to be cynical (no I don't) but is it possible that to our elected representatives tax revenues from the sale of cigarettes are more important than our health?


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Vaping is smoking. Vaping is bringing up the temperature of the product until it releases its chemicals, often without actually burning the product. Whereas smoking simply burns the product to release the same chemicals. It doesn't matter if they smoke or vape tobacco, it still contains the addictive nicotine. The only difference between the two is the temperature that is used to release the chemicals.

Why should any product be banned? It is not government's job to be our nanny and tell us what we can and cannot use. If you don't like tobacco, don't use it. However, you do not have the right to deprive others of something they might want. A common trait among the fascist left.
 
Gdjjr said:
I've smoked since I was 14- I'm 71. I tried vaping a couple years ago and it ain't the same. Vaping is inhaling steam- kinda like living in Houston except a bit more concentrated.
Smoke has more density- I determined vaping wasn't satisfying.
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I smoked a pack and a half per day for 48 years before trying vaping, and I have to agree with you. Vaping is probably fine for those who have never smoked, but for those of us who have we're use to the denser and stronger smoke and flavor of the burning tobacco that vaping just doesn't deliver.

I don't smoke, or vape, any longer but I would never consider banning either. As far as I'm concerned vaping is for those who can't handle smoking, but it is essentially the same thing.
 
JohnnyDollar said:
I've been smoking pretty steady since I was 18ish. And I've got to say, you non-smoking crybabies need to STFU.

I decided that when cigs got to $5 per pack, that was it. I was gonna quit. When my brand got to $5 per pack, I switched to a cheaper brand, but didn't like them. They burned to fast and were too harsh.
My dad and I were talking one day about the cost of cigs, and he said he'd been rolling his own for a while now and paid about $1 per pack. I'd tried RYO (roll your own) cigs before and they were worse than the cheapest store bought cigs. Dad said the guy I got those from was probably using old tobacco.

So for like $25, I went to the local tobacco store and bought a 6oz bag of pipe tobacco (The good stuff), a box of 100mm tubes (200count) and a cheap cigarette injector for like $5. Took it all home and started rolling. The first few I completely screwed up. Either overpacked it, or under packed it.
But the first one I rolled right, was friggin awesome. After rolling about a carton of smokes, I got pretty good with this little injector. So I moved up to a better injector. And now I have an electric one, that practically rolls the cigs for you.

The local tobacco store here sells a 1lb bag of tobacco (American Club) for $16. 1lb makes about 2.5 cartons. I'll get 3 boxes of tubes for like $12. So for about $30, I can get over 2 cartons of good cigarettes. I tried many different types of pipe tobacco until I settled on a brand that I like. That's about a buck a pack. Instead of $55 a week, I'm down to about $8 to $10 per week.

So for all you cry baby smokers, here's mud in your eyes. And for us smokers, it's a win win.

I'm gonna smoke one now in celebrations to upsetting a non smoker.
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I also did RYO cigarettes for years. I started smoking when cigarettes were $0.25 per pack, the same price as a gallon of gasoline at the time. I paid $40 for a cigarette roller and maybe $25 a month in tobacco and cigarette blanks. It would take maybe 10 to 15 minutes each day to manually roll out the pack-and-a-half that I smoked each day.

The trick is finding the right tobacco.

I don't smoke any longer, but I have no problem with those who do. I still enjoy the smell and flavor of tobacco, I just prefer not to be addicted to another substance. If they could make nicotine-free tobacco, I would go back to smoking in a heartbeat.
 
Gdjjr said:
Study Finds That the Vast Majority of Respiratory Diseases in Vapers Are Linked to Illegal THC Products

Study Finds That the Vast Majority of Respiratory Diseases in Vapers Are Linked to Illegal THC Products – Reason.com

Among patients in Illinois and Wisconsin, 83 percent admitted vaping cannabis extracts bought on the black market.

Black Market? I thought that was illegal! Surely there must be a law somewhere- maybe Michigan!
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So if they ban vapers...then more people will buy off the black market...and more people will die, not less.

Perhaps Michigan law makers didn't think this through.
 
Glitch said:
Vaping is smoking. Vaping is bringing up the temperature of the product until it releases its chemicals, often without actually burning the product. Whereas smoking simply burns the product to release the same chemicals. It doesn't matter if they smoke or vape tobacco, it still contains the addictive nicotine. The only difference between the two is the temperature that is used to release the chemicals.

Why should any product be banned? It is not government's job to be our nanny and tell us what we can and cannot use. If you don't like tobacco, don't use it. However, you do not have the right to deprive others of something they might want. A common trait among the fascist left.
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Except, the fascist left are uncommon.
 
Glitch said:
They are much more common than you think. Look to the Democratic Party.
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Fascism usually falls on the far right side of the political spectrum. Look at the GOP.

Anyway...back to the topic...vaping vs smoking. Good for you for quitting. :)
 
Moot said:
Fascism usually falls on the far right side of the political spectrum. Look at the GOP.

Anyway...back to the topic...vaping vs smoking. Good for you for quitting. :)
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You have a very strange notion of fascism.

Fascism was created by Benito Mussolini, a devote socialist. His motto for his socialist fascist Italy was "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." That makes fascism entirely a creation of the left, and fully embraced by today's Democratic Party.
 
Helix said:
i'd advocate avoiding both. however, they're currently talking about ~500 or so cases of vaping related health problems including deaths. meanwhile, smoking killed 480,000 people last year.

Fast Facts | Fact Sheets | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC

while vaping is pretty new and a lot of those smokers who died last year could have started smoking in the early to mid twentieth century, traditional tobacco smoking still strikes me as the greater danger. i hope that my kid avoids it like i didn't. however, i kicked it in 2008.
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You know, there are a lot of people who get lung cancer, that don't smoke. If they had smoked, it would've been blamed on smoking, and not what actually gave them cancer. Food for thought.
 
Glitch said:
I smoked a pack and a half per day for 48 years before trying vaping, and I have to agree with you. Vaping is probably fine for those who have never smoked, but for those of us who have we're use to the denser and stronger smoke and flavor of the burning tobacco that vaping just doesn't deliver.

I don't smoke, or vape, any longer but I would never consider banning either. As far as I'm concerned vaping is for those who can't handle smoking, but it is essentially the same thing.
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I remember when vaping came out, before any of the stupid vaping laws came out. I was sitting in the DMV with a buddy of mine trying to get my title straightened out so he could buy my semi. We were sitting there, waiting for my number to be called when it dawned on me, there's no law. So I pulled it out and started puffing away. HA HA HA HA.. It was priceless. All the dirty looks from the DMV people and an occasional cop that walked by. But there wasn't a dayum thing they could do about it. Well, except wish they pass another law so they could "order" me to stop doing something that wasn't really bothering anyone else. Next thing I know, people were pulling out their vapes, or going to their cars to get theirs. HA HA HA HA HA.. Within 10 minutes, there was like 5 of us in there vaping away.
 
JohnnyDollar said:
You know, there are a lot of people who get lung cancer, that don't smoke. If they had smoked, it would've been blamed on smoking, and not what actually gave them cancer. Food for thought.
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The majority of lung cancer is caused by first and secondhand smoke.
 
Jesse Booth said:
Vaping is a significantly safer way for people with nicotine addiction to cope with their addiction. I personally know at least half a dozen life long smokers who're finally getting off of cigarettes through vaping, where patches and gum have failed them before. Sure, it's still nicotine, but I'll take a step down from cancer in a roll of paper for my friends and family in a heartbeat.

Yes, being addicted to nicotine is bad, but you can't just reject good solutions because they're less than perfect.
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This, exactly.

I vape because I can't quit smoking, but don't want to kill myself. This latest round of hysteria is utterly unscientific, with the only ones benefiting from it being tobacco companies, due to all the folks who might have been thinking about a healthier alternative, but have used this as a cause to give up.

I find it odd, given the American distrust of the media at the moment, that so many would be jumping on the bandwagon.

This is the most responsible piece I have found:

COMMENTARY: Panic over e-cigarettes not supported by the evidence - National | Globalnews.ca
 
Glitch said:
I also did RYO cigarettes for years. I started smoking when cigarettes were $0.25 per pack, the same price as a gallon of gasoline at the time. I paid $40 for a cigarette roller and maybe $25 a month in tobacco and cigarette blanks. It would take maybe 10 to 15 minutes each day to manually roll out the pack-and-a-half that I smoked each day.

The trick is finding the right tobacco.

I don't smoke any longer, but I have no problem with those who do. I still enjoy the smell and flavor of tobacco, I just prefer not to be addicted to another substance. If they could make nicotine-free tobacco, I would go back to smoking in a heartbeat.
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I smoke for 3 reasons.
1. I enjoy it.
2. It keeps me from hollering at people.
3. I can now afford it a lot better since I've been rolling my own.

The only problem i really have with smoking, is the crybabies around me telling me I can't.
 
Gdjjr said:
It encourages cops shooting people too-
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Well you're right, but that was a separate matter--untaxed cigarettes v. taxed cigarettes.
 
Moot said:
So if they ban vapers...then more people will buy off the black market...and more people will die, not less.

Perhaps Michigan law makers didn't think this through.
Click to expand...

Politicians rarely think anything through. They're known for their knee jerk reactions.
 
Helix said:
The majority of lung cancer is caused by first and secondhand smoke.
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That's what they say. But just how true is it?

When I was an OTR driver, I hauled a lot of Flammable 3's and Corrosive 8's into food and drink places. Ice cream, soda plants, candy plants and a whole slew of other places. ALL of which went into their product. Just because the FDA says it's safe for the majority of people, doesn't mean it's safe for everyone. You could drink Pepsi every day your whole life and never get cancer. But because your bodies anatomy & chemistry is different than someone else's, doesn't mean someone else isn't going to get cancer from the same pepsi. So, they get cancer. And if they smoke, the doctors will claim it's from the smoking. Why? Because that's the easy way. And because there's no way to tell what actually gave that person cancer. It could've been the chemicals mixed with the Pepsi and cigarettes. It could've been the ice cream chemicals mixed with the Pepsi chemicals. And the smoking may not have had anything to do with it.
 
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