• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Progressivism/Socialism/Communism; a failed Ideology

That is how capitalists do it everywhere. Your american government pays farmers to not grow crops. If you do not know even this basic understanding of the capitalist market then you have no business on this thread.

That’s not capitalism.
 
So Google is YOUR friend.....

Having invested in learning Civics and self investment in Political Science is my friend. as is having invested in learning "truthful history" is my friend.

Google certainly is a good tool, if one knows how to use it.
 
Book artful dodger how about you answer the question I asked in my original post? All your assertions them out to not much and as far as it goes all of your aspersions are unfounded and are unappreciated. I’ve made no Aspersions of you just simply ask you to cite law. You are right that in the 60s the courts enforce the law that illuminating discrimination in hiring. I don’t care water in peoples head I only care how it affects me and others. I said the 1950s now I want you decide current law that backs up all of the crap you’ve been spewing

What you call aspersions and claim are unfounded is your choice to think in such terms. My post are not directed to disparage working poor and poor whites, but to bring the awareness of how they as well have been disadvantaged over centuries and decades. The racial focused gap is not beneficial to poor whites or minorities... Their "combined" power is within "unity". I speak about what many fear talking about and the system has been a long history of not talking about it.
I posted the link to the history of Jim Crow Ideology, and the damages in mindset that such a 100 yr promoted malice based ideology did in damages not just to minorities but to working poor and poor whites...
These are the groups who have suffered from low wage challenge and in some a long series of devastation's, there is nothing in our society that I want for myself, that I would not want the same for working poor whites and poor whites.

I live in the real world, and over the years my work has shows me the economic devastation to working poor whites, working poor minorities, poor whites and poor blacks in our society.

We no longer have a system where the "draft" was existing that many people learned skills and crafts in the military, community colleges are no longer basically cost free, and state universities that once provided very low cost educations to millions. is no longer low cost in a system where wages are stagnated, while the wealthy now count their money in $10's, $100 of Millions, to the tune of double digit $Billions..

If you don't see those things as problems that affect working poor whites, working poor minorities, poor whites and poor blacks.. then I don't know what else to tell you.

We now have an Administration that is further damaging "the people", by trying to make them not believe the truths they see and hear. We see every segment of our Government under attack, and an Administration that has failed to fill key cabinet positions, while the man in the seat in the white house tries to function as a dictator, pushing madness by the hour on social media forums like twitter. Until there is mass divisiveness amplified to a level of madness.. all the while the wealthy increases their wealth gap so far beyond reach of the average working american.

there was absolutely no justification to give the wealthy a $1.x permanent tax break when our infrastructure if falling apart, and debt and deficit is increase at an alarming rate. and the people get a pittance for a short term, that amounts to nothing more than $2-$3 a day. that is eaten up with rising free on any service that is being sold. One should take a look for example: at a Cable bill, that wants to charge for local tv access, sports access, yet, local tv and sports sell billion in incessant advertising, one can't watch a local morning news without several commercial every 4 minutes. Example: I have changed nothing on my cable service, yet. the bill went from $130 to $199. I'm pulling the plug on it this very week. the cable service cycles the same channel line- up filled with nothing but old re-runs, and countless channels of shows that is about Info Commercials selling something.

Internet news only post tid bits of almost reporting a story, followed by too much drama hype. I go to sources that have details and when I want Political info on what politicians said, I can go to CSPAN and hear it for myself. I can go to the Federal Register and find out what has changed within laws and policy. I can go to Federal websites and find out for myself what an agency has documented. I don't care for the spin of what an entertainer is wearing of who they are dating and who showed more skin than the next one, or an entertainer trying to tell me how to interpret civic events. I don't listen to Candidates 30 second drama commercials. If a candidate claims to stand for something, I can research that "something" and find out what is documented concerning it.

you said: I don’t care water (what's) in peoples head I only care how it affects me and others.

I care what's in peoples heads, because it does affect me and others. It's people who vote, and I don't care for people being misled and engulfed in race bias political thinking that has been the systems from a vile past for centuries and decades.
 
Last edited:
Wrong. I'm one, and I'll bet there are MANY more.

No you aren't, you just think you are. If you believe in law and order, then you believe in empowering the government to use coercion up to and including lethal violence to force your neighbors to conform to what you think is right. What do you think you would be doing if I decided to enter your house when you weren't home and help myself to your property and you called the police on me?

Everyone wants to use government coercion to force their notion of right and wrong upon everyone else. This is what it means to be a citizen. We all agree that government coercion is the right way to enforce your ideals, we just disagree on which ideals are worth enforcing and which are not worth enforcing.
 
No you aren't, you just think you are. If you believe in law and order, then you believe in empowering the government to use coercion up to and including lethal violence to force your neighbors to conform to what you think is right. What do you think you would be doing if I decided to enter your house when you weren't home and help myself to your property and you called the police on me?

Everyone wants to use government coercion to force their notion of right and wrong upon everyone else. This is what it means to be a citizen. We all agree that government coercion is the right way to enforce your ideals, we just disagree on which ideals are worth enforcing and which are not worth enforcing.

You REALLY should stop telling me what I believe. You CLEARLY don't know squat about this topic, nor what I "believe".
 
Of course it is capitalism. Manipulation of supply and demand for profit. A method used throughout every country where capitalist economics are used.

Nonsense. You may "manipulate" supply and demand in New Zealand, but no one cuts off supply to manipulate demand (nor anything else) here. We'll sell all we have at the market price, we'll buy all we can at the market price.
 
I think "All American's should learn how to engage the Federal Register - to 'get the actual words of law and policy, rather than listening to "politicians spin drama in the media" and "push drama in their fight against things that impact all of society..

I read info from various states.... as a classic example, Jindal left Louisiana in a mess of a debt hole, yet, Edwards has managed to dig that state out, and managed to not deprive senior's of the care they need and did not disadvantage young people's educations... yet, those opposing him, feed the people drama that is based on cycles of incessantly not being truths.

I watched Scott Walker and what he did, and then how he pushed a change in Governor powers, to try and force the malice he promoted upon the people, He did not push for higher pay for people, but stood against collective bargaining, and who suffer's is the common citizen in that state.

People should look across the nation and take not of what is taking place, laws that are enacted and how states adhere to regulations, and look at the states who are improving regulations for the betterment of the lives of its citizen population.

It's time out for the "TV Commercial Politics Drama Games" ... People need to invest to speak honestly and tell people specifically how their ideas will impact peoples lives, so people are not casting votes for who was the 'best drama attacker", " not who talked tuff, but ignore the rules and process of policy making"... people MUST become more knowledgeable about Political Matters in principle of what is bills, measures and proposals.. Don't rely on some Office Chaser to give you the details you Must get for yourself. When you know the details, then you can support a Candidate, because only then will you know if what they speak is true or not.
If you respect your vote... the point is to "respect it" and that means know what the hell you are voting for or voting against.


I think its sad that some don't read through things, as I've seen when I speak of working poor whites and poor whites, people first thought is that it's racist and they shut down their minds, rather than read and understand... but be aware to know the challenges and hardships that poor whites and minorities share in common. Society does not want people to see that truth. I write to try and get people to think about these things.

I work with people who speak and talk about the exact same home and family, economic, job, schools for their kids, college challenges and all such things and the conversation if it was written, one could not tell whether it was spoken by a black or white persons... because the challenges and hardships are the same in principle of concerns, issues, challenges, economics and how they can find means to advance their children.
 
Last edited:
We have a good system in American Governance, our issue is more related to an "UN-informed general publc.. that has been trained to listen to tid bit media, via TV and talking heads on the Radio... and those people make $millions "SPINNING DRAMA"... if they did not spin drama they'd not have a media show. People need to know that those money chasing seat behind the microphone seeking people, don't live in the same conditions and challenges as you do... they live in the lap of luxury and high wealth.

Example: Limbaugh makes $30 million a year... he has nothing in common with an hourly wage earner in America!!! He does not have to think about having a car repaired, or fixing a hot water heater, of how much it cost to make dinner, or what will the co-pay cost to take a kid to the doctor...
But, he riles people up... because it makes money and advertiser pay based on how many people he can attract and keep tuned into the spin cycles.

In 2018, Forbes estimated that Hannity's annual income was $36 million. Now what does he have in common with an hourly wage earner living in a single wide or double wide trailer, or living in a rural town where all industry is practically gone.... "absolutely nothing"!!! Yet he can talk all day about how government is screwing the people, yet it is government keeping people babies fed when the job markets dry up and politicians push policy written by corporate elites, who have no regard for the hourly wage earner and strip companies and sell of its parts while laying off thousands and 10's of thousands across multiple states.
Ask any of these people, how much baby formula cost, or pampers, or how much the average person has to spend on blood pressure medicine for a weeks supply, when some people can only by a few pills at a time. They could not tell you what it cost!! But these talking heads can spend all day, telling people how to fight against a government that continually build programs that can assist people in need. Not one of these people will ever take a year salary and dedicate it to helping people, they won't even take a weeks salary ($576,923.00) to help the any one of the same people who tune in and dedicate themselves to his drama carnival spin games.
Some of the listener won't earn that much in two lifetimes.

Wake up people... Don't Continue to Be Made Into A Drama Junkie"... with a cycle of daily agitation about attacking and standing against something... That's the whole premise and these of their commentary... is to keep people "agitated" and coming back for more...
 
You REALLY should stop telling me what I believe. You CLEARLY don't know squat about this topic, nor what I "believe".

Sorry. How about this: If you pay your taxes, and if you would call the police on someone who breaks the law and victimizes you, then I know what you believe. If you'd like to go on record saying that you don't pay taxes and wouldn't do this, then I will concede that I don't, in fact, know what you believe.
 
Sorry. How about this: If you pay your taxes, and if you would call the police on someone who breaks the law and victimizes you, then I know what you believe. If you'd like to go on record saying that you don't pay taxes and wouldn't do this, then I will concede that I don't, in fact, know what you believe.

You just did.
 
So, no taxes and no police for you? Do you drive on public roads?

With that approach to discussion, it is clear that you have strange ideas about the topic. Please stop bothering me.
 
Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.

Who gets to decide what's better? Or is progressivism merely a cover for imposing one set of rules and regulations on all of society? And isn't that exactly what Communism and Socialism seeks to do?
 
Last edited:
If you seriously can't see the Progressive connection to Marx/Engels, then you're obviously living in a bubble.

Yes; there was a time Progressives camouflaged their narrative, but now days they rarely hide their true colors.

The name itself, "Progressive" is a lie. The REAL Progressive Party from 1890 until 1930 consisted entirely of former Republicans. There wasn't a single Democrat among them. The most famous of all the Progressive Party presidential candidates was Theodore Roosevelt in 1912. The Progressive Party supported the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th Amendments, when the Democratic Party opposed them all.

Despite that history, today we have leftists claiming they are somehow "progressive" while proposing fascism. Not only are they completely ignorant of the history of those they pretend to mimic, they are not even close to being "progressive" by any stretch of the imagination. It is like when Democrats began calling themselves "liberal" during the 1960s. Everyone knew it was a deliberate lie. Democrats have never supported liberty in any form - ever.

So these so-called "Progressives" are nothing more than communist anti-American scum pretending to be something they are not, and hoping we are too stupid to notice.
 
Who gets to decide what's better? Or is progressivism merely a cover for imposing one set of rules and regulations on all of society? And isn't that exactly what Communism and Socialism seeks to do?

In America, that would be voters, their representatives, and the courts, and it is done slowly over time. Progressives have to compete with all the others in the marketplace of ideas. Environmentalism really began in the 19th Century. Gay Rights began in the 20's. In theory, any form of government can deliver progress. In reality, as is seen in China and Venezuela, Communism and Socialism often focus on other things like controlling the masses as opposed to improving their conditions.
 
What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Tell me again how great capitalism is when half the country is barely scraping by. Your thinking only allows the top ten percent to stay the top ten percent. If you think the GOP gives two craps about you or your well being, you are deceiving yourself.
 
In America, that would be voters, their representatives, and the courts, and it is done slowly over time. Progressives have to compete with all the others in the marketplace of ideas. Environmentalism really began in the 19th Century. Gay Rights began in the 20's. In theory, any form of government can deliver progress. In reality, as is seen in China and Venezuela, Communism and Socialism often focus on other things like controlling the masses as opposed to improving their conditions.

Ah, yes, the tyranny of the majority. But thank God for democracy, for it alone can curtail the excesses of progressivism. While progressiveism has done much good, it has also over-reached and been rejected at times. The Eugenics Movement was a progressive idea, and while repudiated here it was adopted and implemented in NAZI Germany. Making marijuana illegal was a progressive idea, based on the fear that it made black men prey on white women. And alcohol Prohibition was a progressive idea. So while progressivism has done some good, it can be as dictatorial as any other ideology. All ideologies tend to excess eventually.
 
Ah, yes, the tyranny of the majority. But thank God for democracy, for it alone can curtail the excesses of progressivism. While progressiveism has done much good, it has also over-reached and been rejected at times. The Eugenics Movement was a progressive idea, and while repudiated here it was adopted and implemented in NAZI Germany. Making marijuana illegal was a progressive idea, based on the fear that it made black men prey on white women. And alcohol Prohibition was a progressive idea. So while progressivism has done some good, it can be as dictatorial as any other ideology. All ideologies tend to excess eventually.

And it can curtail the tyranny of conservatism as well. In the end, to every thing there is a season and all that
 
Ah, yes, the tyranny of the majority. But thank God for democracy, for it alone can curtail the excesses of progressivism. While progressiveism has done much good, it has also over-reached and been rejected at times. The Eugenics Movement was a progressive idea, and while repudiated here it was adopted and implemented in NAZI Germany. Making marijuana illegal was a progressive idea, based on the fear that it made black men prey on white women. And alcohol Prohibition was a progressive idea. So while progressivism has done some good, it can be as dictatorial as any other ideology. All ideologies tend to excess eventually.

Eugenics was never part of the progressive movement. That was completely separate movement by Margaret Sanger that ONLY Democrats (and eventually the German NAZIs) supported. However, you are correct about progressives wanting to make marijuana and alcohol illegal. The Progressive Party also supported the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th Amendments. Democrats opposed all four of those amendments. They were an influential part of American politics from 1890 until 1930.
 
The name itself, "Progressive" is a lie. The REAL Progressive Party from 1890 until 1930 consisted entirely of former Republicans. There wasn't a single Democrat among them.

Yeah. I'm not sure what the point is other than that Republicans used to be a party with real ideas and Democrats used to be very conservative.

The most famous of all the Progressive Party presidential candidates was Theodore Roosevelt in 1912. The Progressive Party supported the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th Amendments, when the Democratic Party opposed them all.

Yes. But again, what argument are you trying to further with this history lesson?

Despite that history, today we have leftists claiming they are somehow "progressive" while proposing fascism.

No, opposing fascism. I can't think of a single thing 'leftists' are doing that can be called fascism.

Not only are they completely ignorant of the history of those they pretend to mimic, they are not even close to being "progressive" by any stretch of the imagination. It is like when Democrats began calling themselves "liberal" during the 1960s. Everyone knew it was a deliberate lie. Democrats have never supported liberty in any form - ever.

What?

So these so-called "Progressives" are nothing more than communist anti-American scum pretending to be something they are not, and hoping we are too stupid to notice.

I don't know what your argument is so it's difficult to respond.
 
Back
Top Bottom