Progressivism/Socialism/Communism; a failed Ideology

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

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SMH....okay, look I have no use for socialism or communism or whatever as a form of government. But when you sit there and tell me all about the atrocities of them and omit various forms of democracy, it tells me that you did not really look at history but are simply parroting back something you either heard or read from your favorite pundit. Allow me to explain....

Historically speaking....every single form of government has performed its own share of atrocities. No one form is exempt. The atrocities can be anywhere from genocide to slavery. Sometimes the scale of it can different, but that makes the act no less horrific. The US itself waged a small scale genocide against Native Americans and indulged in slavery.

Historically speaking, democracies also fail. How many times have we seen democracies fail their people through corruption and then give way willingly to dictators of any stripe? The democracies of ancient Greece failed outright. The democracies of Rome ceded their power to dictators and emperors. Democracy has just as much of a spotty record as any other government.

Socialism and communism did not just appear as a result of the industrial age...those are just the current names for those philosophies. Do you know that the Puritans practiced communalism, which is the basis of communism? Did you know that the Republican party's initial power base was built on labor and unions? Did you know that Karl Marx and Engles saw Lincoln as a hero of labor and wrote letters congratulating him on his re-election? Did you know it was a socialist that penned the Pledge that we use today....that God wasn't even added to it until 1953?

Please...stop parroting pundits. Go to the library, read up on history. Facts, not Trumpian wishful thinking...

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Click to expand...

Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.

Drawdown said:

Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.

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Yea, progressives are always full of good intentions. Too bad they rarely get any positive results.

aociswundumho said:

Yea, progressives are always full of good intentions. Too bad they rarely get any positive results.

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That is because the democrats usually stand in the way, rerouting those good intentions into Wall Street friendly policies.

Jason Warfield said:

SMH....okay, look I have no use for socialism or communism or whatever as a form of government. But when you sit there and tell me all about the atrocities of them and omit various forms of democracy, it tells me that you did not really look at history but are simply parroting back something you either heard or read from your favorite pundit. Allow me to explain....

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I am indeed an avid reader of history and politics and I also managed to recognize the propaganda and resist the progressive indoctrination prevalent in most universities.
and
The "pundits" you alluded to were actually my parents, both of which were born and raised in pre-Iron Curtain, USSR...My father was from Russia and my mother Romania.

I can't imagine any better authorities (or "pundits" if you prefer) on the subject of this thread...

Historically speaking....every single form of government has performed its own share of atrocities. No one form is exempt. The atrocities can be anywhere from genocide to slavery. Sometimes the scale of it can different, but that makes the act no less horrific. The US itself waged a small scale genocide against Native Americans and indulged in slavery.

Click to expand...

The history of the world is filled with atrocities committed by every people, race, religion, culture and nation on earth which have all been guilty of every evil you can imagine:

All have taken land from others and had land taken by others.

All have murdered others, and been murdered by others.

All have owned slaves, and have been owned as slaves.

Historically; no nation or group of people on earth has a monopoly on "atrocity".

But the Progressives seek to destroy the United States and Capitalism and replace it with their Socialist Utopia.

So they tell you the American Dream was only created for the evil greedy racist sexist white man that built it.

And then they tell you about all the wonderful free stuff they're going to provide you.

Historically speaking, democracies also fail. How many times have we seen democracies fail their people through corruption and then give way willingly to dictators of any stripe? The democracies of ancient Greece failed outright. The democracies of Rome ceded their power to dictators and emperors. Democracy has just as much of a spotty record as any other government.

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"Democracies" fail when people fall prey to the lies and propaganda of progressive charlatans promising a beautiful Utopia where everyone is equal and all wants and needs are provided.

"Beware the piper as you follow singing and dancing while he plays his beautiful tune"

Socialism and communism did not just appear as a result of the industrial age...those are just the current names for those philosophies. Do you know that the Puritans practiced communalism, which is the basis of communism? Did you know that the Republican party's initial power base was built on labor and unions? Did you know that Karl Marx and Engles saw Lincoln as a hero of labor and wrote letters congratulating him on his re-election? Did you know it was a socialist that penned the Pledge that we use today....that God wasn't even added to it until 1953?

Please...stop parroting pundits. Go to the library, read up on history. Facts, not Trumpian wishful thinking...

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And who are the "pundits" that you parrot?

aociswundumho said:

Yea, progressives are always full of good intentions. Too bad they rarely get any positive results.

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Yeah. Black people never got free and gain rights. Women never became equal and earn the same. LGBT never ever got a chance to marry. We never went to the moon. Christianity has gained power. And so on. :roll:

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Click to expand...

You won't find anyone here that supports that. Go over to any one of those Communist forums.

Drawdown said:

Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.

Click to expand...

If you seriously can't see the Progressive connection to Marx/Engels, then you're obviously living in a bubble.

Yes; there was a time Progressives camouflaged their narrative, but now days they rarely hide their true colors.

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Click to expand...

Can you quote even one sentence of communist or socialist doctrine that supports mass killing? The answer of course is, no.

You fail to distinguish between dictatorships that call themselves communist and the philosophy of communism.

You are not a reader of history. You are a lacky of right wing propaganda.

You fail to take into account the many countries that work quite well as a democracy and also include socialist welfare.

You fail to take into account the thousands of businesses all over the world that use the communist philosophy of worker control of the business also known as coops.

Your use of the word utopian only demonstrates your own lack of comprehension about dialectical materialism. A classic failure of your ignorance about communism.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and instead get an education.

Drawdown said:

Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.

Click to expand...

Improve based on whose interpretation? That's the problem.

That is the end goal, to create world that resembles the progressive's opinion of what the world should look like.

Different people have different opinions.

So then it becomes the progressives, socialists, communists goal to use the coercive force of government to make people do as they think people ought.

Do you not see the problem here?

AProudLefty said:

You won't find anyone here that supports that. Go over to any one of those Communist forums.

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Which part???

That no one around here will believe there's a Socialist/Communist element vying for power in the US and they're using the new Progressive Democrat Party as their political vehicle?

Or; that despite its history of tyranny, oppression, suffering, mass murder and extreme failure rate; Socialism/Communism always manages to attract supporters from every generation?

Empirica said:

Which part???

That no one around here will believe there's a Socialist/Communist element vying for power in the US and they're using the new Progressive Democrat Party as their political vehicle?

Or; that despite its history of tyranny, oppression, suffering, mass murder and extreme failure rate; Socialism/Communism always manages to attract supporters from every generation?

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Sure there's a few who support Communism. That isn't a part of the DNC platform.

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Click to expand...

On the contrary, Fascism, authoritarianism, and dictatorships are the failed ideologies.

ChezC3 said:

Improve based on whose interpretation? That's the problem.

That is the end goal, to create world that resembles the progressive's opinion of what the world should look like.

Different people have different opinions.

So then it becomes the progressives, socialists, communists goal to use the coercive force of government to make people do as they think people ought.

Do you not see the problem here?

Click to expand...

Only problem I see is people like you who apparently think what we have and where we are is good enough.

Drawdown said:

Only problem I see is people like you who apparently think what we have and where we are is good enough.

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I've got plenty, more than enough even, and I'll get even more as my days go forward.

Woe to anyone who think they're entitled to anything I've earned.

That's the problem with people like you, you think because if you vote on it, then stealing from me is morally acceptable.

It's not.

ChezC3 said:

Improve based on whose interpretation? That's the problem.

That is the end goal, to create world that resembles the progressive's opinion of what the world should look like.

Different people have different opinions.

So then it becomes the progressives, socialists, communists goal to use the coercive force of government to make people do as they think people ought.

Do you not see the problem here?

Click to expand...

If that's the case, then modern day conservatives are also "progressive," right? Don't conservatives want to use government coercion to punish things like abortion and gay marriage?

Empirica said:

If you seriously can't see the Progressive connection to Marx/Engels, then you're obviously living in a bubble.

Yes; there was a time Progressives camouflaged their narrative, but now days they rarely hide their true colors.

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Progressivism is takes a totally different approach than socialism and its goals are nowhere close to the same. Since you see their "true colors" you must have looked right past those details.

lwf said:

If that's the case, then modern day conservatives are also "progressive," right? Don't conservatives want to use government coercion to punish things like abortion and gay marriage?

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People misinterpret what being conservative means all the time. Lenin was a conservative in relation to Trotsky. There are some Dems that are more conservative than member's of the GOP.

There is nothing progressive about wanting to "punish things like abortion and gay marriage" I'm not sure what you mean by punish, but abortion and gay marriage are innovations, it would be conservative to bring them back to what they were, how they were viewed and handled. Meaning abortions would be illegal and gay marriage wouldn't be a thing. Which, it isn't really, but people like to pretend.

ChezC3 said:

People misinterpret what being conservative means all the time. Lenin was a conservative in relation to Trotsky. There are some Dems that are more conservative than member's of the GOP.

There is nothing progressive about wanting to "punish things like abortion and gay marriage" I'm not sure what you mean by punish, but abortion and gay marriage are innovations, it would be conservative to bring them back to what they were, how they were viewed and handled. Meaning abortions would be illegal and gay marriage wouldn't be a thing. Which, it isn't really, but people like to pretend.

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So progressives want to use government coercion to change things to make them the way they want them to be, and conservatives want to use government coercion to change things to put them back the way they used to be?

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Click to expand...

Socialism and communism are not the same thing. Please learn the distinction and perhaps you can have a meaningful conversation.

To begin with, there are elements of socialism in all economies, including the American economy. Socialism isn't a failure when applied in the right dose. Most of the large European social-democracies have done quite well. If the social happiness index is an indication (and it should be), then a strong argument can be made that they have done a better job than their American counterparts, which might suggest a little more socialism in our economic diet could be a good thing.

Inequality index: where are the world's most unequal countries? | Inequality | The Guardian

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-26/..._1_norway-prosperity-new-zealand?_s=PM:LIVING
Legatum Prosperity Index 2018

There are a great deal of failures in the American system. The tremendous wealth disparity that rivals Haiti and is worse than Iran, being one of the starkest examples. A better mix of socialism would mitigate wealth inequality.

World Bank Names South Africa As The Country With The Greatest Wealth Inequality : Goats and Soda : NPR
Wealth Inequality - Inequality.org

Why is wealth inequality a problem? Well, it makes our economy remarkably less stable.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/01/wealth-gap-america/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lauren...um-income-inequality-capitalism/#47da486d5dd3
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2013/09/the-problem-with-wealth-inequality/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/06/why-income-inequality-is-bad-for-growth/
http://www.iop.harvard.edu/political-issue-wealth-gap
http://oll.libertyfund.org/quote/237

In the interim, please stop with the socialism/communism. It shows remarkable ignorance. Do you wish to discuss communism OR socialism?

https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-communism-and-socialism-195448
http://www.businessdictionary.com/article/1030/communism-vs-socialism-d1412/

Drawdown said:

Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.

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That is demonstrably untrue.

Besides, what improves the human condition is a subjective goal.

Progressivism seeks to bludgeon non-supporters into following what they see as their vision of an improved human condition.

lwf said:

So progressives want to use government coercion to change things to make them the way they want them to be, and conservatives want to use government coercion to change things to put them back the way they used to be?

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Yes on the first part, not necessarily so on the second.

soylentgreen said:

Can you quote even one sentence of communist or socialist doctrine that supports mass killing? The answer of course is, no.

You fail to distinguish between dictatorships that call themselves communist and the philosophy of communism.

You are not a reader of history. You are a lacky of right wing propaganda.

You fail to take into account the many countries that work quite well as a democracy and also include socialist welfare.

You fail to take into account the thousands of businesses all over the world that use the communist philosophy of worker control of the business also known as coops.

Your use of the word utopian only demonstrates your own lack of comprehension about dialectical materialism. A classic failure of your ignorance about communism.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and instead get an education.

Click to expand...

Waitaminute...You actually believe that far-left political advocates, desperate to gain the trust and support of voters, would include the bloody history of exterminating 200 million people in their "doctrine"?

Surely you cant be that naive...

Empirica said:

What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?

Click to expand...

I don't think a libertarian is in any position to criticise other ideologies as failed. :lol: