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Progressivism/Socialism/Communism; a failed Ideology

aociswundumho said:
Who wouldn't be against these abject failures? Every person with more than two brain cells to rub together acknowledges that private schools are superior to public schools,
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What are you talking about? Two brain cells are the bare minimum to use Google.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...an-public-schools-why-this-new-study-matters/

New Study Confirms That Private Schools Are No Better Than Public Schools

and that private housing is superior to public housing,
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They serve two different functions entirely.

and that private grocery stores are superior to state-owned grocery stores, and so on and so forth.
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I don't know what the data is on this, but I don't see Bernie Sanders advocating for state-own grocery stores.

National defense is a public good. Although it's not impossible, it is difficult for the market to provide public goods due to the free rider problem.
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Again, what are you talking about? I don't understand your point here.

Anyway, my point was you have no argument for democratic socialism, because it has a track record of failure a mile long.
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Name the failures please. Give me your list, then I'll give you mine.
 
aociswundumho said:
Who wouldn't be against these abject failures? Every person with more than two brain cells to rub together acknowledges that private schools are superior to public schools, and that private housing is superior to public housing, and that private grocery stores are superior to state-owned grocery stores, and so on and so forth.


National defense is a public good. Although it's not impossible, it is difficult for the market to provide public goods due to the free rider problem.

Anyway, my point was you have no argument for democratic socialism, because it has a track record of failure a mile long.
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American public education is what moved this country forward, and provides far better education than many places around the world. These type of people making these comments, "hate American Democracy" because it does not single focus serve their own selfish needs and deny others...and have some delusion they are superior in some sick faction. Yet, the idiocy of such comments continue to expose what the real truth is.

We can be thankful such mentality type will never get in public office that deal with anything that concerns the general public. Some comments show exactly why some will never get into a decision making position, even in the lowest levels of the employment sector. What even better is the young kids that are just starting school won't have to deal with these type of mindset by the time they become adults. This type of old Confederate Era of thinking will have long passed away by then,.

Many who always cry and whine about public services, seek every kind of free ride they can get, but detest that anything benefits anyone else...

Sounds like comments straight out of the 1960's version of George Wallace
 
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In threads like this, people should be very careful and on guard against "foreign trolls"... these are the types of tools they use to push their absurd commentary in pursuit to sow discord... they have been at it for decades, so don't think its just newly signed up types, some foreign nations have had an agenda to establish themselves within these type of forums over years....

Read thru the crud that some post which is anti Democracy and Vile Against America's Systems of Social Services... Education, and all the programs that have been moved forward by our Congress for the benefits and services for the citizens and nation...
They will attack it incessantly... pushing by every means to get people to stand against everything that has made America the Great Nation that it is.

They play on those who see drama and spin in generalized ignorance, because they make prime sucker bait.

So be careful of the type of spin one gets caught up in, when participating in any of the many platforms of social interactive portals.
 
nitroexpress said:
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Of the 10 Happiest Nations on Earth, all have some degree of socialism. Some far more than Venezuela (e.g. Norway, Denmark).

Even beyond top 10, with America being a pathetic #18, these nations are all heavily socialized.

And it seems your meme is out of date. Vietnam is an economic success. Indonesia is currently #7 in GDP. China (a communist authoritarian state, not a democratic socialist nation) is destined to overtake America as the #1 economy.
 
Worker’s rights, abolition of child labor, environmental regulations, union protections, civil rights teh horror!
 
Empirica said:
What better Forum than Government Regulation is there for the ideo-political discussion of Communism/Socialism; the most dedicated and zealous purveyor of "government regulation" ever inflicted on humanity.

The rise of the Industrial Revolution was soon followed by the rise of the Communist Revolution in accordance with the 'ideo-political manifesto' created by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Every generation since has had its diehard followers of the Marx/Engels, Communist Manifesto which has been sanitized over many decades of failure in multiple countries around the world.

These Socialist/Communist failures have resulted in the oppression, suffering and mass extermination of hundreds of millions of people where the survivors are still struggling to recover and rebuild.

And still these diehard supporters of the Progressive/Socialist/Communist ideology remain loyal to the Utopian Dream because "this time" it will be different.....Are you one of these "diehard supporters"?

If so, please explain to us skeptics.....Why?
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Ahh, the Trump campaign lies for 2020 have already started I see.

How does Progressivism fit into socialism and communism?


Use credible sources in your explanation.
 
jet57 said:
Ahh, the Trump campaign lies for 2020 have already started I see.

How does Progressivism fit into socialism and communism?

Use credible sources in your explanation.
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The OP did not mention Progressivism. But feel free to give us a lecture.
:liar2
 
Slight amendment.

Although the banner lists Progressivism/Communism/Socialism, the OP doesn't target Progressivism.
 
nitroexpress said:
Slight amendment.

Although the banner lists Progressivism/Communism/Socialism, the OP doesn't target Progressivism.
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Yes it does.

Which is pretty funny considering that the counter-ideology is currently being run by a man-child con artist with the mentality of Joffrey Baratheon. How anyone from the right-wing can criticize progressive ideology is beyond me. It's like Oscar the Grouch calling your home a dump.
 
Drawdown said:
Progressivism is simply a desire to improve the human condition through social reform. There is no manifest end goal other than make things better than they are.
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Correct. It is only the right wing that associates progressivism with communism. Though it does share some elements with socialism, most Western democracies do fine with that: UK, Australia, NZ, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, the list goes on. Throw in South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan. It's only America that hasn't caught up.
 
Progressive society is how many used information and knowledge to harness the power of fire, its how many moved forward to develop the wheel, instead of dragging stuff across the land. Progressiveness is how system of education was developed to educate the formerly ignorant. Progressive is why we have an automobile instead of a horse and buggy. People fought against that too, when it was developed. People fought against bridges with their fear, even after the bridges were built.

Ignorance has always tried to take the world backwards. We have people this very day, lusting for the system of the Southern Confederacy, many too ignorant to know their own ancestry within that period were considered nothing more than poor white service class, relegated to low pay and substandard living conditions.
It was people like Teddy Roosevelt, who fought to keep the wealthy from making insane fortunes from inducting people into low wage abusive labor and controlling the system of public policy and government by their amassed wealthy. Ignorance is astounding in how it is too imbecility to understand even the systems that has elevated their lives.

Socialism - EVERY social society is a form of socialism, some adopt various attributes, American adopted the attributes of independent land ownerships, independent business, and some business to this day reverie government assistance, in the form of grants, tax concessions, and other government used instruments to help move business forward.
Our Government was and is designed to respect the values of THE PREAMBLE, ( those who resent that fact, because it does not just help them, are the self-centered evil makers who try and denigrate the same government, they themselves want to benefit from and through.)

The Preamble =
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Many of these self centered and bigoted types, don't get to "define what the words of The Preamble stated with their small minded self consumed concepts.

Every system of society is designed based on "Communal Ideals"... some systems adopt various attributes, American Adopted the system of Republic Form of Governance, where Democracy Rules, in providing each person the voice of vote, to elect Representative Governing Individuals, it is up to the people to ensure they know "how to vote", and know the "issues and measures in full of what they vote for". Their Ignorance of not knowing the truth and details within and of measures and issues is their own individual fault. Measures and Issue will not reshape itself to fit their bias, bigotry or their race bias, or ethnicity bias mentality nor their vile prejudiced concepts.

Savagery and those who choose every form and manner of savage conduct will not prevail to destroy American Democracy....

Those too ignorant to know "The Preamble" was designed and established as the value principles to pursue building a more perfect union.
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The Constitution itself is: The outlined principles, and processes and policies and established rules as to how to achieve the value principles stated in the Preamble, and the Preamble is the values and principles that adhere to the very essence of the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence.
 
Sadly, a great mass of people sprang from environments of ignorance, which was common among those who came from former serfdom, back woods of Europe and the Alley ways and Ghetto of Europe... who came here with a chase for "wealth" by any means based on their mentality of savage self consumption at the expense of any and all... Such types and their ignorance came with no concept or concern to respect the values of the Declaration of Independence nor the Preamble and its following Constitutional Outlines. They did not try to gain understanding of the basic premise of Freedom of individual to be person, Freedom of Religion to worship as they choose, and to have a system of Justice, that abide by the Regulatory Governance both in Law and Civil Process Established as Rights and Privileges within American Society. This is the tragedy from the early era of unchecked european immigration in the early ages of the founding of America. Those who came flooding during the labor chase of the Industrial Age, came only with a focus on "work and money"... they brought with them an ingrained ignorance of the values and principles of what is America and its Establishment of its Founding Documents and The Principles laid out.

What we see today, is a mass of descendants groomed from such ignorance... some still trying to invoke and create frames of serfdom in their worship of the wealthy, and others bring the bigoted and bias savagery from the ghetto's of cut-throat savagery their ancestry hailed from, and yet others, from the back woods and hills, still chasing the folklore glorification of their raw survival savage instincts, filled with the age old anguish at the governance of a system of Monarchy that saw them as forever subjects.

They simply don't know how to live in the system of American Democracy...!!! They cannot get past the folklore passed on mentality of such ideals of savagery and resentments of organized and governed society and the folklore passed on ideals of how to devote themselves to the submission to serfdom, of worshiping the wealthy, this level of ignorance has been passed on to them over generations, and romanticized in ways to make their offsprings adopt it... and continue passing it on.
 
We see an incessant string of 'white men" -mass slaughtering innocent people... ( this should be a concern in society, not some deflection to try to call it as racist post, but one that makes people realize this is not some anomaly!!! and it cannot be played off and shoved under the rug as some mental illness. Because far as anyone knows, any of us could be the next victim of this savage violence !!! So don't walk around as if you are somehow "immune".... you need to pay attention!!! and not keep pretending that everyone is innocent because they have white skin. You nor your community is Immune, we've seen them go into churches and mass kill people, Movie Theatre's, Too Many Schools, Shopping Areas, and Entertainment Areas... What will it take before people "pay attention"... and stop trying to pretend its an Anomaly.

(Mass Shooting in Odessa | Mass Shooting in El Paso. Dayton, Ohio | Man killed woman who rejected him | Man kills family members | man kills wife and child of Pro ball player | Student with gun and 2000 rounds of ammo ) anguished because they are lost in expecting the the fictional "white skin" delusion they were groomed to think that being white should make their lives flow with ease at the expense of any and all, and the delusion that being white skin and male, that he should be given the avenue to dominate over others. When they can't get that... they go into a rage... from the homes where they kill women, their kids and extended family members, and when that does not get them their delusion, they plot to go out and mass kill innocent people... Blaming anything and anyone for his own failure to invest in making his own life work, by his own efforts. They think they don't need to gain knowledge and invest themselves like everyone else who makes their life work. They don't think they have to live with respect for Civil Society like everyone else who makes their life work. They kill woman, men, children and babies with absolute nothing but a driving mentality of "savagery".
This is much ado about the ignorance of generations of a system promoting the vile madness of white nationalism and the delusion of white male dominance. They want dominance over women, they want dominate over people in the employment arena, they want dominance within the community, and they want dominance to promote their twisted and sick ideals.

Black communities know its not an Anomaly when black youth shoot and kill and create random violence, they are not trying to sweep it under the rug... They are at the very least "trying to organize and address it"... they are not claiming everyone who does this is mentally ill, they call it what it is. Evil Violence!!!

We need 'DOMESTIC TERRORIST LAWS" AND WE NEED TO ENFORCE IT... They are not going to be reformed... We need to face the hard choice that these vile killer driven people are not humane or respectful of civil society.
 
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uptower said:
Correct. It is only the right wing that associates progressivism with communism. Though it does share some elements with socialism, most Western democracies do fine with that: UK, Australia, NZ, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, the list goes on. Throw in South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan. It's only America that hasn't caught up.
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lol, America is the richest and freest country on the planet. None of those countries you listed have in their respective constitutions protections from arbitrary police power that is equivalent to our Fourth Amendment. None of those countries you listed, recognize and respect the right to self defense like we do in America (outside of the "progressive" states, naturally) None of those countries you listed have true free speech the way America does.

Of course, progressives don't value human freedom, they value state power. To a progressive, the more power the state has over you, the more "advanced" the nation is. They like the fact that people in the UK are arrested for making politically incorrect comments on facebook and that people are arrested in Germany for Holocaust denial. They like it that legal concealed carry is either extremely restricted or non-existent in those countries. They love the extremely high rates of taxation many those countries impose on their citizens. That's what a progressive means when he says America "hasn't caught up".
 
aociswundumho said:
lol, America is the richest and freest country on the planet. None of those countries you listed have in their respective constitutions protections from arbitrary police power that is equivalent to our Fourth Amendment. None of those countries you listed, recognize and respect the right to self defense like we do in America (outside of the "progressive" states, naturally) None of those countries you listed have true free speech the way America does.

Of course, progressives don't value human freedom, they value state power. To a progressive, the more power the state has over you, the more "advanced" the nation is. They like the fact that people in the UK are arrested for making politically incorrect comments on facebook and that people are arrested in Germany for Holocaust denial. They like it that legal concealed carry is either extremely restricted or non-existent in those countries. They love the extremely high rates of taxation many those countries impose on their citizens. That's what a progressive means when he says America "hasn't caught up".
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How does having someone shoot you at a Walmart or movie theater increase my freedom?
 
aociswundumho said:
lol, America is the richest and freest country on the planet. None of those countries you listed have in their respective constitutions protections from arbitrary police power that is equivalent to our Fourth Amendment. None of those countries you listed, recognize and respect the right to self defense like we do in America (outside of the "progressive" states, naturally) None of those countries you listed have true free speech the way America does.

Of course, progressives don't value human freedom, they value state power. To a progressive, the more power the state has over you, the more "advanced" the nation is. They like the fact that people in the UK are arrested for making politically incorrect comments on facebook and that people are arrested in Germany for Holocaust denial. They like it that legal concealed carry is either extremely restricted or non-existent in those countries. They love the extremely high rates of taxation many those countries impose on their citizens. That's what a progressive means when he says America "hasn't caught up".
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Do you have any concept of what "REGULATORY GOVERNANCE IS"? If you did, you'd know that in system of democracy, where individual have rights to be an individual, it MUST be governed, because 'EVERYONE CAN'T JUST DO ANYTHING, ANY TIME, ANY WAY AND ANY WHERE THEY WANT TO"..

Shocker for you: Society will develop "more regulatory governance", because the more people learn, the more people want to ignore regulation and do anything they want, and that cannot exist. Maybe you should read and learn about the continual NEED to put regulations on social media, the continual need to put regulations within the Robotics being developed, and the A.I. being developed.

Geez.... get out of the closed minded bubble... and learn the value of Regulatory Governance.

How would you like seeing 18 wheelers driving though a community, because there was no regulation that kept them from doing so, do you realize the roads they are allowed to use, are built to spec's that can support that weight and frequency of travel. How would you like someone to set up a hog farm in their front yard in a suburban community. Do you like that you can buy a soft drink or beer and expect that it is what it claims, or that you can buy food and know that it has regulatory standards it must meet. How do you like that the electrical power you use, has regulatory standards, so as not to short out and blow up anything you plug into it, or that standards exist that give some assurance to the vehicle you drive won't fall apart or can be trusted to go 50 mph or more. Or that the tires on the car are mandated to have and meet regulatory standards.. how would you like someone 'hunting animals behind your house, just because its a grove of trees there, or How do you like that you turn on the tap water it has has to meet EPA regulations and standards...and you can drink,cook and bath in it.
Maybe you don't know about Flint, Michigan, and the need to progressively upgrade when knowledge is presented that something is harmful, now they have to remove all the pipes that have lead content within them. How you like driving down highways and streets with no striping and not traffic lights, or directional signs, because all these things exist because of regulatory governance. The guards they install between freeway traffic directions, is because of progressive thinking, to improve safety for people.... But all you can whine and cry about is "regulatory governance"...

Thankfully, we have a Democratic Republic System of Elected Officials who promote and develop regulatory governance to protect society against anti regulatory minded types.

It's amazing how much people don't know... yet, always screaming about their rights and fighting against regulatory governance.
 
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What does government do well? If you have any answer to that then what is it that the government does efficiently? What does the government do without bureaucracy and red tape getting in the way? Do you want your healthcare decisions about where you live what you do for a living what education you’re eligible for whether you do or do not own a car to be made by the same people who give you public education and the DMV? How lazy has this country become and they don’t want personal responsibility but would rather handle all the power and all the decision-making to a centralized bureaucratic group on the premise that everything will be more “fair“. Since there is a subjective term and marks was a low resolution thinker who has been given way too much credit and credence all the flowery language and miss direction in the World doesn’t change human nature or turn a failed idea into a working system.Did the body count last century not teach anybody anything?
 
People whine and scream about protecting the rights of people to have a full cache of war type weapons.... who the heck need 50 weapons... when it only takes one bullet to stop being. who can use all those weapons anyway, if they were under such an assualt, they'd never have time to get to use all of them anyway.

Military gives its soldier's "one weapon", because they are smart enough to know, no soldier needs 50 weapons. No, they do not allow soldiers to bring any weapons from home, and they don't authorize soldiers to take military issued weapons home, unless they have specific permission based on their job classification.

No person who claims themselves a "Hunter", needs an automatic or even a semi automatic weapon. The hunter who respect the animal they prey upon, should have the dignity to respect life, to not go hunting with automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons.

Early America Indians and people around the world who live in Jungles, respect life, they only kill what they will eat, they were not drive to kill for profit.

Civic and Civil Society has many models... but "savagery" is not conducive to Civic and Civil Society"
 
KennyD146 said:
What does government do well? If you have any answer to that then what is it that the government does efficiently? What does the government do without bureaucracy and red tape getting in the way? Do you want your healthcare decisions about where you live what you do for a living what education you’re eligible for whether you do or do not own a car to be made by the same people who give you public education and the DMV? How lazy has this country become and they don’t want personal responsibility but would rather handle all the power and all the decision-making to a centralized bureaucratic group on the premise that everything will be more “fair“. Since there is a subjective term and marks was a low resolution thinker who has been given way too much credit and credence all the flowery language and miss direction in the World doesn’t change human nature or turn a failed idea into a working system.Did the body count last century not teach anybody anything?
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Government Efficiently established and progressed this nation... and Government has done so in many continents... Nothing is perfect, that's why it continues to be progressive in how it develop and to do that, it continues to promote and establish elements of Regulatory Governance.

Nothing is stopping any who don't like it, from seeking out some remote Island some place... even if they did, when more people come, they'd themselves want to develop regulatory governance to promote the civility and develop some civic systems.

People who lust for Savagery, denote themselves as have having proclivities for savagery.... they are void of understanding that Freedom in a Civil and Civilized Society remains being so, because of Regulatory Governance.... or it would not be freedoms, it would be "raw savagery".... void of any freedoms other than to be a savage.

Such types are dangerous to civil and civic society.
 
soylentgreen said:
Can you quote even one sentence of communist or socialist doctrine that supports mass killing? The answer of course is, no.

You fail to distinguish between dictatorships that call themselves communist and the philosophy of communism.

You are not a reader of history. You are a lacky of right wing propaganda.

You fail to take into account the many countries that work quite well as a democracy and also include socialist welfare.

You fail to take into account the thousands of businesses all over the world that use the communist philosophy of worker control of the business also known as coops.

Your use of the word utopian only demonstrates your own lack of comprehension about dialectical materialism. A classic failure of your ignorance about communism.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and instead get an education.
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Really? Do you want to quote from the groups of people who are responsible for 100 million dead vote? The ideology has been tried numerous times in all different portions of the globe and the results have always been mass death economic failure and government control ceasing progress. When the wall came down in Germany East Germans were a good 45 years behind West Germans primarily because socialism and by proxy communism Freezes all the assets of the country and in net effect stops advancing the people. It is ironic “progressive“ support a system that completely eliminates progress. They oppose a system that is responsible for cutting abject poverty and actually feeding millions of people. Take away The government gun and people in a capitalist society have to do something to benefit others in order to provide for themselves. It is the difference between incentive to innovate and incentive to simply exist
 
RealityNow said:
Do you have any concept of what "REGULATORY GOVERNANCE IS"?
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That term you keep using is a redundant expression. To regulate means to control, and to govern means to control as well.

Maybe you should read and learn about the continual NEED to put regulations on social media,
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You mean the need for leftist politicians to criminalize wrongthink and scrub the web of any and all politically incorrect speech.

Geez.... get out of the closed minded bubble... and learn the value of Regulatory Governance.
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This guy RealityNow is a typical progressive. Could you imagine being ruled over by someone like him?

I can describe his "regulatory governance" in one sentence: Everything not forbidden is compulsory.
 
aociswundumho said:
That term you keep using is a redundant expression. To regulate means to control, and to govern means to control as well.

You got that right, now learn to RESPECT IT... or you are free the leave the American Governance and its Regulatory System and go any other place in the world that you think will fill your yearnings.

You mean the need for leftist politicians to criminalize wrongthink and scrub the web of any and all politically incorrect speech.

No. it means stuff like your ideology does not continue to spread and damage the minds of young people trying to grow up, and learning to be respectful of living in a society that has Government and Governmental Regulatory Systems to promote the Civility in a Civic Society.



This guy RealityNow is a typical progressive. Could you imagine being ruled over by someone like him? What I can't and won't imagine is being ruled over by some Right Winger who thinks themselves superior to society, to the point they think and want to do anything they can conjure up, any way they conjure it up.

I can describe his "regulatory governance" in one sentence: Everything not forbidden is compulsory.

(civil and civic minded people understand what is right and wrong and what is civil and what is not, they also know what contributes to a civil society and what does not. So... in that context..
so.... Yes, [it is if and when something impacts negatively upon the whole of Society. [
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Got it!!!
you probably should leave as soon as possible, {as America IS NOT going to go backwards and it certainly IS NOT going to stop progressing and it IS NOT going to stop Governing and Regulating that progress, because of people such as yourself...} because there is not many deserted islands without governance's left, if any. And if you happen to stumble upon one that has inhabitants, you likely will meet the fate of the man who took it upon himself to go to the remote Indian Island trying to push his agenda.

It's a very good thing our governance system has means of keeps a running file on these Sovereign Citizens Types, and the Radical Right Wing Anti Governance Types.
 
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