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What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

SmartCat said:
Two computer programs I coded for my company enabled the company to fire four clerical workers. I did not know that would be the result of my assignment until I finished it. When my boss and I were told that at a meeting with business office my boss was pleased. I was shocked. Nevertheless, there was nothing I could have done to save their jobs. If I had refused to do my assignment, my boss would have fired me, coded the programs himself, and replaced me in two weeks. Needless to say, I did not get a raise or bonus for doing that, just a guilty conscience.
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yep

sorry, but the computer age caused a LOT of job losses

productivity went up, and the ownership/management kept most of those dollars because they are the ones who INVESTED in the tech
 
d0gbreath said:
We kind of force them into poverty and crime with a mw that a person can't possibly get by on.
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the idea is to get them to better themselves

at 18 i wasnt worth what i am now annually.....no one is

how did i get there?

what actions did i take? what sacrifices did i make to get to the upper rungs?

very few get things handled to them....most earn them over a long time, with a LOT of effort

same thing with a good wage
 
Those who advocate for a low minimum wage, or no minimum wage, should understand that the government is heavily subsidizing corporations because they have to pick up the difference -- whether its food stamps, housing, or and/or Medicaid. Meanwhile, these same people want to reduce or eliminate government assistance entirely.

So basically, conservative-ideology wants to cut the economic ladder at both ends, then blame the worker for not being able to climb it.
 
The gov't, neither state nor local, has the authority to declare what can or can't be paid. Those who advocate for telling others what they can or can't do should run for office you'd be right at home amongst the narcissistic meglomaniacs.
 
dkap said:
minimum wage is a big topic right now and I'd like to see everyone's ideas.
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There should be NO minimum wage. All wages should be between the worker and the employer. It's nobody else's damn business. Minimum wage simply squeezes the least skilled and the most vulnerable out of the job market. But hurting the most vulnerable is nothing new to the left, given their current all-out war on the unborn.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Those who advocate for a low minimum wage, or no minimum wage, should understand that the government is heavily subsidizing corporations because they have to pick up the difference -- whether its food stamps, housing, or and/or Medicaid. Meanwhile, these same people want to reduce or eliminate government assistance entirely.

So basically, conservative-ideology wants to cut the economic ladder at both ends, then blame the worker for not being able to climb it.
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Constant inflation only results in the so-called "economic ladder" growing in length. Government actions only have resulted in reducing the gap between rungs at the bottom, which has increased the gap between rungs above. Money, regardless of the source from which it originated, will flow to where it is spent.

A rising tide (inflation) does NOT float ALL boats equally, those that have sunk and/or are sinking remain sunk or will eventually sink in deeper water as a result.
 
Drawdown said:
Around $9.25-$9.50
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Requiring an hours productive labour for each $9.25-$9.50 provided by an employer or government might be somewhat acceptable.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Those who advocate for a low minimum wage, or no minimum wage, should understand that the government is heavily subsidizing corporations because they have to pick up the difference -- whether its food stamps, housing, or and/or Medicaid. Meanwhile, these same people want to reduce or eliminate government assistance entirely.

So basically, conservative-ideology wants to cut the economic ladder at both ends, then blame the worker for not being able to climb it.
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That's an interesting take, because - visually - that is almost exactly how we see the impact of leftist ideology.

1. By raising the wage floor beyond the ability of our least experienced and educated populaces, we prevent them from ever getting the first job which can translate to more experience and the ability to get a second, better job, and so on, and so forth. Similarly, the current structure of the welfare state punishes them if they attempt to make wise decisions (such as marriage and increasing income) that positively correlate with upward mobility.

2. By imposing heavy regulatory (which, big and established companies love, and, usually, gleefully help to author), and a heavy tax burdens at the top, we raise the threshold and make it more difficult for competitors to rise, protecting the position of those already at the top from competition with rising small to medium businesses and downwardly depressing the upwardly mobile members of the middle class.
 
Individual said:
Requiring an hours productive labour for each $9.25-$9.50 provided by an employer or government might be somewhat acceptable.
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If someone is not being productive, they should be terminated. In the last 10 years since the most recent increase, not a lot has gotten cheaper so it is only fair that the MW be increased just for the rising cost of things like cable TV, food, etc. I chose my window based on the premise that smaller increases over time will not have huge dire economic impacts on businesses in at risk communities. Big increases are going to be job/business killers.
 
Jason Warfield said:
Ideally, minimum wage would be largely dictated by national inflation, consumer price index (CPI) and the national cost of living in the US. As the CPI moves up, it normally does so in face of inflation or a rise in cost of living. The reason for a national minimum wage is simple; it bolsters the American dollar value nationally. If we were to rely on each state to provide its own minimum wage, the value and buying power of the dollar would weaken nationally due to the irregular currency values in various, internal markets.

What many don't seem to understand is that a minimum wage really only does one thing; give the American dollar buying power with the times. Inflation and the CPI ALWAYS creep upwards. They may level off, but they NEVER go backwards. Insisting on forcing people to work for a dollar whose value is less than what the CPI and inflation dictates, devalues the dollar. That actually means that more dollars are needed to make purchases. Think like Germany after WW1 as an extreme example.

Here's what minimum wage does NOT affect: upward costs of product and the cost of making said products. Those increases of price and cost of production comes from need and the price is determined, again, by inflation and the CPI. A minimum wage is in RESPONSE to those increases, it is NOT the reason for those increases.
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What you said.

A wage/salary based on local area COL and thereafter rising annually by CPI would eliminate a lot of the government assistance given to those who now qualify for such due to not making a living wage. That assistance is actually suppressing wages because companies, as Walmart has said, know they can keep wages low because the lowest-paid employees can get some form of government assistance. It’s better to put money into the hands of those who are working for it and will spend it than to give it away to the rich and large corps in the form of revised tax system that redistributes wealth further into the hands of those that did nothing for it and will do not nothing with it that ultimately benefits many people, as Trump promised it would and has obviously not happened.
 
i dont understand why some people wanna get rid of the minimum wage so people work for free
 
pinqy said:
Umm why would anyone work for free?
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In the past that would have been defined as charity, when people choose to do for or give to another, money or something of value at no cost.
 
Drawdown said:
If someone is not being productive, they should be terminated. In the last 10 years since the most recent increase, not a lot has gotten cheaper so it is only fair that the MW be increased just for the rising cost of things like cable TV, food, etc. I chose my window based on the premise that smaller increases over time will not have huge dire economic impacts on businesses in at risk communities. Big increases are going to be job/business killers.
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The problem with that is, that which has no value does not increase in value as a result of inflation.
Inflation does not apply equally to all things, and that which is in high demand often increases in price greater than the inflation rate.
Inflation, as claimed by another in this thread (Post #3), DOES NOT bolster the value of the American dollar nationally. It does however, bolster the ability nationally to raise the price on things which are in high demand. And living abroad, a while back I needed to do a little carpentry work and faced with buying a hammer, I found a choice between a Stanley brand costing about $15 and a Chinese made hammer costing about $3. Needless to say, I bought the Chinese made.
 
Individual said:
In the past that would have been defined as charity, when people choose to do for or give to another, money or something of value at no cost.
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Re-read the post I was responding to. The claim was that without a minimum wage, people would work for free. So the context was jobs that currently pay minimum wage.

And from an economics perspective, no one works for free. Even volunteer charity workers receive satisfaction, or other emotional reward.
 
Individual said:
The problem with that is, that which has no value does not increase in value as a result of inflation.
Inflation does not apply equally to all things, and that which is in high demand often increases in price greater than the inflation rate.
Inflation, as claimed by another in this thread (Post #3), DOES NOT bolster the value of the American dollar nationally. It does however, bolster the ability nationally to raise the price on things which are in high demand. And living abroad, a while back I needed to do a little carpentry work and faced with buying a hammer, I found a choice between a Stanley brand costing about $15 and a Chinese made hammer costing about $3. Needless to say, I bought the Chinese made.
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The lack of increase in value does not necessarily result in a bad thing. It is how we reduce the opportunity cost of debt.
 
pinqy said:
Re-read the post I was responding to. The claim was that without a minimum wage, people would work for free. So the context was jobs that currently pay minimum wage.

And from an economics perspective, no one works for free. Even volunteer charity workers receive satisfaction, or other emotional reward.
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Sorry, I was just agreeing with your post.
 
Drawdown said:
The lack of increase in value does not necessarily result in a bad thing. It is how we reduce the opportunity cost of debt.
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It only concentrates debt on the most essential needs, while acquiring wants by payment in full.
 
Drawdown said:
It is also how we increase money supply
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And that would be a good thing IF it was producing money without devaluing it, but it does not.
 
social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour and is a reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

it is reasonable to expect Labor understand that form of Capitalism in our Republic.
 
Individual said:
And that would be a good thing IF it was producing money without devaluing it, but it does not.
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Increasing the minimum wage must also increase the potential for market participation and is an economic reason for any positive multiplication effect to circulation.
 
danielpalos said:
Increasing the minimum wage must also increase the potential for market participation and is an economic reason for any positive multiplication effect to circulation.
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While diminishing value of money/inflation decreases the potential for market participation relative to material needs which grow in value as a result. Houses and land being primary examples.
 
Individual said:
While diminishing value of money/inflation decreases the potential for market participation relative to material needs which grow in value as a result. Houses and land being primary examples.
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Inflations is happening even without minimum wage increases. And, increasing the minimum wage must increase market participation potential to the extent income is increased.
 
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