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Thread: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlrmln View Post
    Makes no sense. Tell me again how is it disingenuous to use readily available income data in a discussion about income, instead of using wealth data, when wealth is a product of numerous other factors?
    If management is compensated via any metrics from valuation, so should Labor.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    If management is compensated via any metrics from valuation, so should Labor.
    Once again, that has nothing to do with my question, and it's also nonsense. People should get paid what their willing to work for. A CEO is responsible for the valuation of a company. The guy who scrubs the toilets is not.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    But Jim Crow laws are ok?
    Irrelevant.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS. #MAGA #WalkAway

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlrmln View Post
    Once again, that has nothing to do with my question, and it's also nonsense. People should get paid what their willing to work for. A CEO is responsible for the valuation of a company. The guy who scrubs the toilets is not.
    How much actual sweat of his brow? Anything else is merely about lucre not morals.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Irrelevant.
    Equal protection of the law cannot be irrelevant unless you are faithless in the execution of our supreme law of the land.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    How much actual sweat of his brow? Anything else is merely about lucre not morals.
    I guess you're completely incapable of addressing the actual topic. Wake me up when that changes.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlrmln View Post
    I guess you're completely incapable of addressing the actual topic. Wake me up when that changes.
    We have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    We have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge.
    Are you using a random word generator to write your comments?

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlrmln View Post
    Are you using a random word generator to write your comments?
    in other words, you have no moral basis for your point of view.

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    Re: What should the minimum wage be, or should we not have one at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So, to be clear, you actually have no response whatsoever to the data point that the reason the "middle class" is shrinking is because more people are becoming wealthy, other than a pretty entertainingly desperate attempt to pivot to ad homineming the Koch's?
    Color me shocked that the AEI would produce such a misleading set of charts. It's called "manipulating the metrics". If the data does not support your conclusion, change the metrics. In this case, by specifically defining the "middle class" to include half of fourth "quintile", and using "2016" as the comparator.

    If, instead, one were to look at the real world, say, like the CBO does, one would learn that
    What Are the Trends in Household Income and Income Inequality?
    According to CBO’s estimates, average household income before transfers and taxes was almost 60 percent higher in 2016 than it was in 1979 in real (inflation-adjusted) terms—reflecting an average growth rate of 1.3 percent per year. That growth, however, was not the same across the income distribution. For the lowest quintile and the middle three quintiles, it was 33 percent (or 0.8 percent per year), but for the highest quintile, it was 99 percent (or 1.9 percent per year). For the top 1 percent of the income distribution, it was 218 percent (or 3.2 percent per year). Because of those differences in growth rates, income inequality was greater in 2016 than it was in 1979 (see the interactive graphic below).
    The Distribution of Household Income, 2016 What the charts conveniently obscure is the increase in disparity:
    Some Americans Moving Up, Others Down
    “In part, the shift out of the middle class is a sign of economic progress, irrespective of changes in household incomes overall,” author Rakesh Kochhar, the center’s associate director for research, noted in the report. “This is because the outward shift is accompanied by a move up the income ladder, into the upper-income tier, in all countries with a shrinking middle class.”

    But, he added, more ominously: “At the same time, there is movement down the income ladder in most countries with a shrinking middle class.”
    America's Slowly Disappearing Middle Class (Investopedia) And, because of the charts' conveniently broad "class" definitions, they fail to account for the growing disparity within the classes. What Is Considered Middle Class Income? (The Balance) Of course, one of the most important misdirections is looking only at income and not wealth.
    Many experts warn that income is not the best way to define the middle class. For example, many people don't have a high income but they still can afford a high standard of living by living off of their wealth. To define a class based on wealth, the middle class is the middle three-fifths of the wealth spectrum. Those with zero wealth or less are in debt. Those in the highest fifth are wealthy. New York University Professor Edward Wolff developed the wealth definition.
    See also What is middle class, anyway? (CNN Business); Why the middle class is shrinking (MarketWatch).
    Real, disposable incomes for the middle class have not grown since the middle of last decade, while incomes for the top 10% are hitting new highs, the OECD calculates. This isn’t how it always works. In the previous decade, from the mid-1990s to the mid-2000s, median real disposable incomes rose by about 17% in richer countries.

    The middle classes are getting squeezed particularly hard by the rising costs of education, health care and housing, the OECD writes. College fees are up, in the U.S. and elsewhere. Homes are much more expensive relative to incomes.

    Meanwhile, technology and global competition are destroying many middle class careers, it adds. Higher skills are no longer passports to good jobs and incomes, it says. “Middle-skill workers are now more likely to be in the lower-income class and less likely to be middle income,” it says. “Highly skilled workers are also less likely to make it to the higher-income class.”

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