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Steven Mnuchin's Crypto Press Conference

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USInDecline

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I watched Steven Mnuchin the other day give a press conference about the dangers of cryptocurrencies and the need for regulation. One of his complaints centered around the fact that crypto is not backed up by anything other than "thin air". Excuse me Steve, what exactly is our dollar based on since we left the gold standard? And you want to lecture us about "thin air" based currency? Or how about how the "bad guys" can use crypto to do bad things? The "bad guys" do bad things now with traditional currencies. Sounds to me that someone doesn't want competition if you ask me or at the very least, wants their cut. Maybe people don't want to rely on a heavily debt-burdened dollar that keeps rolling off the press? Maybe people want some privacy on what they purchase w/o Big Brother's eye? It doesn't always need to be about criminal activity.

Now when it comes Libra (Facecrook's cryptocurrency), I can see how people are skeptical. Facecrook's history of being a bad privacy actor doesn't help the cause but lets not paint the whole industry under one, broad brush. It's hard to have faith in the regulators when the regulators routinely fail their jobs or are complicit themselves in bad behavior.

In the end, it's comical that a guy from the investment banking industry wants to warn the American public of the dangers of using a non-traditional form of currency. There's some irony in there if you ask me.

Just one man's opinion.
 
USInDecline said:
I watched Steven Mnuchin the other day give a press conference about the dangers of cryptocurrencies and the need for regulation. One of his complaints centered around the fact that crypto is not backed up by anything other than "thin air". Excuse me Steve, what exactly is our dollar based on since we left the gold standard? And you want to lecture us about "thin air" based currency? Or how about how the "bad guys" can use crypto to do bad things? The "bad guys" do bad things now with traditional currencies. Sounds to me that someone doesn't want competition if you ask me or at the very least, wants their cut. Maybe people don't want to rely on a heavily debt-burdened dollar that keeps rolling off the press? Maybe people want some privacy on what they purchase w/o Big Brother's eye? It doesn't always need to be about criminal activity.

Now when it comes Libra (Facecrook's cryptocurrency), I can see how people are skeptical. Facecrook's history of being a bad privacy actor doesn't help the cause but lets not paint the whole industry under one, broad brush. It's hard to have faith in the regulators when the regulators routinely fail their jobs or are complicit themselves in bad behavior.

In the end, it's comical that a guy from the investment banking industry wants to warn the American public of the dangers of using a non-traditional form of currency. There's some irony in there if you ask me.

Just one man's opinion.
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Ill take my chances with the common banking system. When a crypto currency gets hacked there is no FDIC, or SEC, or any other agency.

Tracking financial transactions is the heart and soul of tax policy and tracking of international crime. Your $1500 isn’t who the government is worried about, its the 40 million wired between Iran and Hezbollah that would be untraceable if the system grew large enough, not to mention crypto currency values suddenly vanishing to state hackers.

I agree with Mnuchin.
 
Cryptocurrencies should be outlawed. States, banks and other organizations were banned from issuing currency a long time ago. Cryptocurrency is a tool of extortion, tax evasion and other criminal usage.
 
joko104 said:
Cryptocurrencies should be outlawed. States, banks and other organizations were banned from issuing currency a long time ago. Cryptocurrency is a tool of extortion, tax evasion and other criminal usage.
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No where can I find how FB or it’s partners plan to make money, let alone pay expenses. It’s theoretical financing looks more like grant money from other companies. Why are they so generous? Every time something moves, there is a cost. I can only assume this is going to be one big world wide data vacuum machine sucking up data for sale, world wide.

Why can’t Bank of America or Wells Fargo do the same thing and scrape up a $100 million to process money for free.
 
Bitcoin (฿) has been around since 2008. Far more stable and liquid than Libra.
 
joko104 said:
Cryptocurrencies should be outlawed. States, banks and other organizations were banned from issuing currency a long time ago. Cryptocurrency is a tool of extortion, tax evasion and other criminal usage.
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Outlawed? What act are suggesting outlawing?
 
chuckiechan said:
Ill take my chances with the common banking system. When a crypto currency gets hacked there is no FDIC, or SEC, or any other agency.

Tracking financial transactions is the heart and soul of tax policy and tracking of international crime. Your $1500 isn’t who the government is worried about, its the 40 million wired between Iran and Hezbollah that would be untraceable if the system grew large enough, not to mention crypto currency values suddenly vanishing to state hackers.

I agree with Mnuchin.
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A properly set up blockchain can only be hacked with a 51% attack in which an attacker gains control of 51% of an exchange. Blockchains are certainly vulnerable to this when the user base is small, but once it gets big enough the cost of implementing a 51% attack becomes so high that the initial loss is too high for the potential gains. A well-built blockchain with a country-sized user base is for all intents and purposes unhackable and is orders of magnitude more secure than any bank in the world. It would be easier to rob Fort Knox 100 times over, use that money to fund a 51% attack on a cryptocurrency exchange, and even if you pulled it off you would still run out of money before you even get a cent from a time-tested world-wide cryptocurrency.

The danger doesn't come from hackers or having your money not backed by the federal government. The danger comes from the complete destruction of the entire baking industry, which relies on the ability to take your money out of your account and invest it for themselves. If a cryptocurrency ever took off, it would permanently destroy the banking systems all over the world. No one knows how that would play out, and people are rightly terrified of the potential unintended consequences.
 
joko104 said:
Cryptocurrencies should be outlawed. States, banks and other organizations were banned from issuing currency a long time ago. Cryptocurrency is a tool of extortion, tax evasion and other criminal usage.
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Cryptocurrency does not issue currency. It converts it into a more secure form. Like credit cards, but better. ;)
 
not really a fan of cryptocurrency, but it definitely shouldn't be illegal - and you're right, it's no less secure than our own US dollar. in fact, it's definitely more secure in some ways. the big issue, and the reason why i don't **** with it anymore, is that there have been too many issues with exchanges getting hacked and mass amounts of coins disappearing. there are ways to keep yourself safe from this, but it's definitely a volatile environment.
 
nekrodev said:
not really a fan of cryptocurrency, but it definitely shouldn't be illegal - and you're right, it's no less secure than our own US dollar. in fact, it's definitely more secure in some ways. the big issue, and the reason why i don't **** with it anymore, is that there have been too many issues with exchanges getting hacked and mass amounts of coins disappearing. there are ways to keep yourself safe from this, but it's definitely a volatile environment.
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What act could be made illegal?
 
First, Mnuchin shouldn't be giving press conferences. He should be marking off a calendar in a prison cell. How is this asshole still free? Where would you or I be if we ignored a subpoena? I could wake up tomorrow morning and hear that Steve Mnuchin was turned into a greasy stain on a street somewhere by the people, and I would happily go on eating my breakfast. I will be short $400 a month for the rest of my life because of douchebags like Mnuchin.
As for the OP, I agree 100%.
 
Beowulf said:
Outlawed? What act are suggesting outlawing?
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Merely declaring it a "currency" would likely outlaw it. I can't print and issue private money. States can't. (They used to). Banks can't. (They used to). The government now tracks transactions over a few thousands if in currency. Why are all regulations ignored for bicoins? It's another form of currency specifically for the purpose of being untraceable, unregulated, and ideal for criminal activity.
 
element94 said:
First, Mnuchin shouldn't be giving press conferences. He should be marking off a calendar in a prison cell. How is this asshole still free? Where would you or I be if we ignored a subpoena? I could wake up tomorrow morning and hear that Steve Mnuchin was turned into a greasy stain on a street somewhere by the people, and I would happily go on eating my breakfast. I will be short $400 a month for the rest of my life because of douchebags like Mnuchin.
As for the OP, I agree 100%.
Click to expand...

How did he cost you "$400 a month for life?"
 
joko104 said:
Merely declaring it a "currency" would likely outlaw it. I can't print and issue private money. States can't. (They used to). Banks can't. (They used to). The government now tracks transactions over a few thousands if in currency. Why are all regulations ignored for bicoins? It's another form of currency specifically for the purpose of being untraceable, unregulated, and ideal for criminal activity.
Click to expand...

So what are they going to do? Ban owning bitcoin?
 
USInDecline said:
I watched Steven Mnuchin the other day give a press conference about the dangers of cryptocurrencies and the need for regulation. One of his complaints centered around the fact that crypto is not backed up by anything other than "thin air". Excuse me Steve, what exactly is our dollar based on since we left the gold standard? And you want to lecture us about "thin air" based currency? Or how about how the "bad guys" can use crypto to do bad things? The "bad guys" do bad things now with traditional currencies. Sounds to me that someone doesn't want competition if you ask me or at the very least, wants their cut. Maybe people don't want to rely on a heavily debt-burdened dollar that keeps rolling off the press? Maybe people want some privacy on what they purchase w/o Big Brother's eye? It doesn't always need to be about criminal activity.

Now when it comes Libra (Facecrook's cryptocurrency), I can see how people are skeptical. Facecrook's history of being a bad privacy actor doesn't help the cause but lets not paint the whole industry under one, broad brush. It's hard to have faith in the regulators when the regulators routinely fail their jobs or are complicit themselves in bad behavior.

In the end, it's comical that a guy from the investment banking industry wants to warn the American public of the dangers of using a non-traditional form of currency. There's some irony in there if you ask me.

Just one man's opinion.
Click to expand...

Crypto is speculation, gambling, it just is not (at this point in history) a currency. From mid 2017 to mid 2018, the price went from about $1,000 to $15,000. The next year, down to $6,000 and to a low of $3,000 or so, then shot back up over $12,000. No one can use something with volatility like that as a currency. You can't price a single good or service in BTC, because by tomorrow the 'value' you get might plummet 20%. How could someone rent a building for 3 years in BTC? Impossible. Point is those things can be done with actual currency but cannot be done with crypto. The only reason non-criminals own BTC is for speculation, the end.

To be currency would require something that acted like a...let call it a central bank!!.....that would keep the trading range in a narrow band over time so buyers and sellers have some predictable idea about what kind of value is represented in 1 BTC. And then you have the same problem with currencies like the USD or the Euro.

And in the meantime mining BTC alone expends the energy equivalent of entire COUNTRIES.
 
Bitcoin isn't a currency. No need to ban it.
 
Beowulf said:
Then don't. Nobody is forcing you to do so.
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Nobody is forcing you to respond to a substantive point with nonsense, but you did it anyway. Why? Who knows. I didn't say anyone was forcing anyone to use BTC et al. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who speculates in crypto is a moron, but that's not my business. I've been wrong before!

My point was BTC is not a currency, because it cannot do anything that a currency is supposed to do. An economy with a "currency" as volatile as BTC or the others would be a complete economic basket case, ungovernable, ordinary business transactions impossible, long term (as in next month) planning impossible.

In 10 years, maybe that changes, but if it changes it will have to be run and operate like....a currency, and not a speculative gamble.
 
USInDecline said:
I watched Steven Mnuchin the other day give a press conference about the dangers of cryptocurrencies and the need for regulation. One of his complaints centered around the fact that crypto is not backed up by anything other than "thin air". Excuse me Steve, what exactly is our dollar based on since we left the gold standard? And you want to lecture us about "thin air" based currency? Or how about how the "bad guys" can use crypto to do bad things? The "bad guys" do bad things now with traditional currencies. Sounds to me that someone doesn't want competition if you ask me or at the very least, wants their cut. Maybe people don't want to rely on a heavily debt-burdened dollar that keeps rolling off the press? Maybe people want some privacy on what they purchase w/o Big Brother's eye? It doesn't always need to be about criminal activity.

Now when it comes Libra (Facecrook's cryptocurrency), I can see how people are skeptical. Facecrook's history of being a bad privacy actor doesn't help the cause but lets not paint the whole industry under one, broad brush. It's hard to have faith in the regulators when the regulators routinely fail their jobs or are complicit themselves in bad behavior.

In the end, it's comical that a guy from the investment banking industry wants to warn the American public of the dangers of using a non-traditional form of currency. There's some irony in there if you ask me.

Just one man's opinion.
Click to expand...

I mean, dollars for example, are based on the economy of the United States backed by the power of its guns and authority; that's comparatively pretty substantial vis a vis a relatively tentative and extremely volatile consensus as to the worth of some unique data.

And yes, cryptocurrency has the potential to ultimately be more abusable for the purposes of crime, terrorism and tax evasion than cash. That's not to say you can't launder money or engage in financial impropriety with US dollars, but doing so is hard going on harder, especially as financial systems have increasingly fortified against these things since the early 2000s, while most cryptocurrencies have mechanisms, like robust anonymity and an absence of reporting/compliance, that specifically aids in and facilitates such things. Staggering and sprawling criminal marketplaces and institutions based in crypto like the Silk Road are only going to grow with them.
 
JasperL said:
Nobody is forcing you to respond to a substantive point with nonsense, but you did it anyway. Why? Who knows. I didn't say anyone was forcing anyone to use BTC et al. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who speculates in crypto is a moron, but that's not my business. I've been wrong before!

My point was BTC is not a currency, because it cannot do anything that a currency is supposed to do.
Click to expand...
Of course it's not. It's not anything. There's no need to regulate it or outlaw it.
An economy with a "currency" as volatile as BTC or the others would be a complete economic basket case, ungovernable, ordinary business transactions impossible, long term (as in next month) planning impossible.

In 10 years, maybe that changes, but if it changes it will have to be run and operate like....a currency, and not a speculative gamble.
Click to expand...
Or maybe it won't. It's none of your or my concern, because it's not a currency.
 
Beowulf said:
Of course it's not. It's not anything. There's no need to regulate it or outlaw it.
Click to expand...

Why did you that ignore that the person I responded to called it a "currency" to erect and beat a straw man, just to agree with me?

Or maybe it won't. It's none of your or my concern, because it's not a currency.
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Whether it's a concern of the United States and other regulators does not hinge on whether it's a 'currency' or not. There are obvious problems with untraceable funds in investigating criminal activity and terrorism, and the social costs of JUST BTC include that 'mining' BTC expends as much energy as the country of Austria. All that's for starters.
 
JasperL said:
Why did you that ignore that the person I responded to called it a "currency" to erect and beat a straw man, just to agree with me?



Whether it's a concern of the United States and other regulators does not hinge on whether it's a 'currency' or not. There are obvious problems with untraceable funds in investigating criminal activity and terrorism, and the social costs of JUST BTC include that 'mining' BTC expends as much energy as the country of Austria. All that's for starters.
Click to expand...

Funds? How can it be funds if it's not currency?
 
Beowulf said:
Funds? How can it be funds if it's not currency?
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I made my original point, you ignored all of it to beat a straw man. I made another point about regulation, you ignored that to split hairs over "funds" versus "currency." Seems you're not interested in having a debate on the issues. :2wave:
 
JasperL said:
I made my original point, you ignored all of it to beat a straw man. I made another point about regulation, you ignored that to split hairs over "funds" versus "currency." Seems you're not interested in having a debate on the issues. :2wave:
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What could they possibly regulate?
 
Beowulf said:
What could they possibly regulate?
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Good, you've moved from straw men to...

tenor.gif
 
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