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Damn You, Tom Selleck!

Helix said:
Lol. Robbing the poor and elderly isn't just profitable; it's a public service! :lol:
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No. Its called risk assessment and mitigation.
 
Rosie1 said:
Reverse Mortgages are designed to rip off old people. I put the process in the same class as Nigerian Scammer telephone calls. The big difference being, it's actually legally.
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Never has a scammer telephoned me offering to provide 80% of the fair market value of my home with no payment due until after I have terminated residence in that home
You could argue that if people are stupid enough to fall for it, they deserve. But, if that argument is true, why trust any bank any time? Elderly people may not only need assisted living, but assisted financial management; and things just don't work that way.
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Isn’t this something that families need to do in order to properly care for their elders
 
Rosie1 said:
Reverse Mortgages are designed to rip off old people. I put the process in the same class as Nigerian Scammer telephone calls. The big difference being, it's actually legally.

You could argue that if people are stupid enough to fall for it, they deserve. But, if that argument is true, why trust any bank any time? Elderly people may not only need assisted living, but assisted financial management; and things just don't work that way.
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You done poked the hive, trust me.
 
I know exactly how RM's work. Yes, factors are, if the children are close enough to pay financial attention to their elderly parents. If they just don't care enough, then whatever. One of our neighbors was financially well off, but estranged from family, and left his assets all to the Humaine Society.
 
The ****ing poutrage.....

I'm not a fan of reverse mortgages...but its not my business if people want to take them on. If you are 85 years old and have 105k in equity you would rather use than pass on to your kids, you know what...I think you have a right to do that.

Look at one of the examples in the story. Leroy Roebuck took out a reverse mortgage loan. That means he took out a loan worth 80% of the equity...not the total value of the property. In essence...his home was his bank. "Leroy Roebuck’s home was appraised at $112,000 in 2008. That allowed him to take out up to $83,000 in equity. By the time he was solicited for a second reverse mortgage, an appraiser said it was worth $241,000, allowing him up to $163,000 more. He borrowed $102,000 in all."

HIS choice. He received $102,000.00. There is a requirement to file paperwork and pay the property taxes. Dont do it and you put your property at risk and may loose your home. For some of those folks, if they dont do it, they cant afford to make payments and lose their homes and other assets.

This is pretty typical of the complaints about the mortgage crisis. Banks loaned money. People bought homes they couldnt afford. Damn you, banks!!!
 
Rosie1 said:
Reverse Mortgages are designed to rip off old people. I put the process in the same class as Nigerian Scammer telephone calls. The big difference being, it's actually legally.

You could argue that if people are stupid enough to fall for it, they deserve. But, if that argument is true, why trust any bank any time? Elderly people may not only need assisted living, but assisted financial management; and things just don't work that way.
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I think reverse mortgages are an investment opportunity from the bankers side. No one is being 'scammed'...especially if they simply follow the rules and pay their property taxes. There IS an expectation that the banks will make a profit AND if people default the banks can take the property. Thats the risk/reward side and why they offer them.

I dont like the loans but if I was in my 80s and had enough to live off AND knew I had 200k in equity and decided I wanted to take a few trips, I can certainly understand people taking out a reverse mortgage.
 
Did Tom read this thread?:2razz:

 
Rexedgar said:
Seniors were sold a risk-free retirement with reverse mortgages. Now they face foreclosure.

Seniors face foreclosure in retirement after failed reverse mortgage



Check out Tom’s view.........
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Tom reads a script. He's no more a financial expert than his is a police commissioner or a PI in Hawaii. That said, I've heard some other stories about reverse mortgages that aren't complimentary. I'd be very careful signing up for one and get the contract scrutinized by an independent expert.
 
The secret is to take out the mortgage, not tell anybody, and then convince your laziest grand child that all this will be theirs one day if they just take you the doctor and pick up your prescriptions until you die. :shock:
 
the reverse mortgage fan club in this thread should probably get together for a monthly lunch society in which they can discuss even better ways to fleece the elderly. i'll bet that they could come up with some pretty good stuff and make themselves rich in the process. then they can tell each other what a great service they're doing for society.

you guys can rent that idea from me in exchange for liens against your estates and a few hidden fees, BTW.
 
Helix said:
the reverse mortgage fan club in this thread should probably get together for a monthly lunch society in which they can discuss even better ways to fleece the elderly. i'll bet that they could come up with some pretty good stuff and make themselves rich in the process. then they can tell each other what a great service they're doing for society.

you guys can rent that idea from me in exchange for liens against your estates and a few hidden fees, BTW.
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if that is fleecing, PLEASE fleece me:

80% of the home value converted into cash for the elder home owner(s)
they live there until they die or leave the home after receiving that equity cash without having to pay 1c in payments on that mortgage
so, those seniors have a significant cash balance, a rent free home, and the financial freedom to do things they could not otherwise afford ... but for the reverse mortgage
fleeced my ass
 
justabubba said:
if that is fleecing, PLEASE fleece me:

80% of the home value converted into cash for the elder home owner(s)
they live there until they die or leave the home after receiving that equity cash without having to pay 1c in payments on that mortgage
so, those seniors have a significant cash balance, a rent free home, and the financial freedom to do things they could not otherwise afford ... but for the reverse mortgage
fleeced my ass
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As I said, I'd be happy to fleece you. However, I'm not sure that you are old and vulnerable enough for me to steal your estate. Maybe you can advise me.
 
Helix said:
the reverse mortgage fan club in this thread should probably get together for a monthly lunch society in which they can discuss even better ways to fleece the elderly. i'll bet that they could come up with some pretty good stuff and make themselves rich in the process. then they can tell each other what a great service they're doing for society.

you guys can rent that idea from me in exchange for liens against your estates and a few hidden fees, BTW.
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Phone scams fleece the elderly.

Reverse mortgages are a tool. Like any other tool if used unwisely it will hurt the user.

Perhaps I come from heartier stock.

My mother is in her final years. She told me not expect to gain much when she died. I smiled. She and my father scrimped and saved for what they had and taught us to do the same. It was their money until Dad died then it became my mother's money to do with what she will. If a reverse mortgage is what she wants IT'S HER MONEY...

As long as she is of sound mind she can do as she wishes with HER MONEY. Because it is HER MONEY.

The only way this is "fleecing" is if the person isn't of sound mind....
 
Fledermaus said:
Phone scams fleece the elderly.

Reverse mortgages are a tool. Like any other tool if used unwisely it will hurt the user.

Perhaps I come from heartier stock.

My mother is in her final years. She told me not expect to gain much when she died. I smiled. She and my father scrimped and saved for what they had and taught us to do the same. It was their money until Dad died then it became my mother's money to do with what she will. If a reverse mortgage is what she wants IT'S HER MONEY...

As long as she is of sound mind she can do as she wishes with HER MONEY. Because it is HER MONEY.

The only way this is "fleecing" is if the person isn't of sound mind....
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Reverse mortgages are a tool of scumbags to fleece the vulnerable elderly.
 
Helix said:
As I said, I'd be happy to fleece you. However, I'm not sure that you are old and vulnerable enough for me to steal your estate. Maybe you can advise me.
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Then we both agree you are without sufficient information to recognize someone being fleeced
 
justabubba said:
Then we both agree you are without sufficient information to recognize someone being fleeced
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effective reverse mortgage shysters prefer to target vulnerable elderly people who are possibly suffering from dementia for fleecing. you don't appear to fit into that group. perhaps a payday loan? if you're willing to meet me in Ohio, i can get you fixed up for 667%. apply now!
 
Helix said:
effective reverse mortgage shysters prefer to target vulnerable elderly people who are possibly suffering from dementia for fleecing. you don't appear to fit into that group. perhaps a payday loan? if you're willing to meet me in Ohio, i can get you fixed up for 667%. apply now!
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[emphasis added by bubba]
"target" the elderly
indicating you do not recognize that eligibility is based on age
in this instance the elderly
the people who are often too old and infirm to continue to earn a living from working
so, they are now able to cash out their primary asset - their home - to satisfy their financial needs
while still living in that home and paying exactly $zero in mortgage payments for the lump sum received
we should all be so "fleeced"
 
justabubba said:
[emphasis added by bubba]
"target" the elderly
indicating you do not recognize that eligibility is based on age
in this instance the elderly
the people who are often too old and infirm to continue to earn a living from working
so, they are now able to cash out their primary asset - their home - to satisfy their financial needs
while still living in that home and paying exactly $zero in mortgage payments for the lump sum received
we should all be so "fleeced"
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well, perhaps you will get your wish. sadly, you're no Tom Selleck. i'm not sold on your favorite scam to remove wealth from elderly people.
 
Helix said:
well, perhaps you will get your wish. sadly, you're no Tom Selleck. i'm not sold on your favorite scam to remove wealth from elderly people.
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Calm down. Reverse mortgages are just one possible strategy for tapping equity in what is often the major asset of a lifetime. The terms of reverse mortgages can vary, but in essence they are a conveyance of property subject to a life estate. The key is in the delivery of the conveyance. Regardless, equity tapped or not, the home owner remains responsible for taxes, insurance and maintenance. And lack of earned or investment income, even in jurisdictions which reduce taxes for the elderly, may be an impossible sustainable position. Much depends on the age of the borrowers, life expectancy, and real financial responsibilities. As with any major financial decision it is an obligation of a borrower to first seek quality professional assistance and consultation with an independent attorney, CPA, or estate planner. A minor cost factor compared to potential financial distress of greater expense. Analysis of circumstances, market timing, needs of the borrower, and so forth can make all the differences.

Per example, Party A, who was 88, and who's wife had recently passed, lived in an area where housing prices were escalating because of gentrification. He held other investments which provided dividend income, which eased his financial daily needs, a pension, social security and so forth but lacked the cash for a move to an assisted living facility which he needed. His lawyer negotiated a $200k reverse mortgage which allowed him to rent out the house as he made the move, delaying the sale until prices reached a level more beneficial to him. The premises appraised by the bank at the time he applied for the mortgage at $350k.

Fours later, happily living in an assisted living facility, he sold the house for $950k, satisfied the mortgage loan with the interest owed, reduced his capital gains taxes by the mortgage loan amount (making that income tax free), deducted the interest paid from his income and dividend taxes, and in the meantime received rent of $2,500 per month for the house. His son and daughter in law were the tenants, who had been paying a similar rent prior to moving into the house of $2k per month for a 2 bedroom apt. After the sale, he gifted his son with $250k, taking advantage of the once a lifetime gift tax exemption, for use as a down payment on another house. His son, daughter in law and two grandchildren were his sole heirs. When he passed four years later, living financially secure, leaving a significantly enhanced estate to his heirs. Well worth the $1,600 fee to his attorney and a quality strategy for him.

Obviously, his scenario doesn't apply to everyone or every reverse mortgage. Most reverse mortgage terms do not allow for rental of the securing property. His lawyer was able to negotiate the exception because the tenant was the son, family and sole heirs of the property owner. His bank managed an escrow fund which paid the re taxes, the insurance and maintenance. His re taxes benefited from a star exemption for those over 6S, and a veteran's exemption not available to his son if he had conveyed the property to him. Smart man, smart lawyer.

I am generally opposed to reverse mortgages, often knowing there are better options. But as this example shows, a reverse mortgage can be a viable vehicle.

The location of the property was Park Slope Brooklyn. Today the value of the market price for the house would be about 1.5 mil. He and his wife paid $60k for the property when they moved in during the late 1960's, as a fixer upper brownstone. Party A had made his living operating a small shoe and leather repair shop in the periphery of Manhattan's financial district. He also sold umbrellas and other sundries. Got his start shining shoes as a boy. His pension came from a lodge he belonged to, the Knights of Columbus, which set up the fund for small business owner members. Because it was set up as a group annuity by a not for profit corporation, the benefits were tax free pursuant to older tax laws.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Calm down. Reverse mortgages are just one possible strategy for tapping equity in what is often the major asset of a lifetime. The terms of reverse mortgages can vary, but in essence they are a conveyance of property subject to a life estate. The key is in the delivery of the conveyance. Regardless, equity tapped or not, the home owner remains responsible for taxes, insurance and maintenance. And lack of earned or investment income, even in jurisdictions which reduce taxes for the elderly, may be an impossible sustainable position. Much depends on the age of the borrowers, life expectancy, and real financial responsibilities. As with any major financial decision it is an obligation of a borrower to first seek quality professional assistance and consultation with an independent attorney, CPA, or estate planner. A minor cost factor compared to potential financial distress of greater expense. Analysis of circumstances, market timing, needs of the borrower, and so forth can make all the differences.

Per example, Party A, who was 88, and who's wife had recently passed, lived in an area where housing prices were escalating because of gentrification. He held other investments which provided dividend income, which eased his financial daily needs, a pension, social security and so forth but lacked the cash for a move to an assisted living facility which he needed. His lawyer negotiated a $200k reverse mortgage which allowed him to rent out the house as he made the move, delaying the sale until prices reached a level more beneficial to him. The premises appraised by the bank at the time he applied for the mortgage at $350k.

Fours later, happily living in an assisted living facility, he sold the house for $950k, satisfied the mortgage loan with the interest owed, reduced his capital gains taxes by the mortgage loan amount (making that income tax free), deducted the interest paid from his income and dividend taxes, and in the meantime received rent of $2,500 per month for the house. His son and daughter in law were the tenants, who had been paying a similar rent prior to moving into the house of $2k per month for a 2 bedroom apt. After the sale, he gifted his son with $250k, taking advantage of the once a lifetime gift tax exemption, for use as a down payment on another house. His son, daughter in law and two grandchildren were his sole heirs. When he passed four years later, living financially secure, leaving a significantly enhanced estate to his heirs. Well worth the $1,600 fee to his attorney and a quality strategy for him.

Obviously, his scenario doesn't apply to everyone or every reverse mortgage. Most reverse mortgage terms do not allow for rental of the securing property. His lawyer was able to negotiate the exception because the tenant was the son, family and sole heirs of the property owner. His bank managed an escrow fund which paid the re taxes, the insurance and maintenance. His re taxes benefited from a star exemption for those over 6S, and a veteran's exemption not available to his son if he had conveyed the property to him. Smart man, smart lawyer.

I am generally opposed to reverse mortgages, often knowing there are better options. But as this example shows, a reverse mortgage can be a viable vehicle.

The location of the property was Park Slope Brooklyn. Today the value of the market price for the house would be about 1.5 mil. He and his wife paid $60k for the property when they moved in during the late 1960's, as a fixer upper brownstone. Party A had made his living operating a small shoe and leather repair shop in the periphery of Manhattan's financial district. He also sold umbrellas and other sundries. Got his start shining shoes as a boy. His pension came from a lodge he belonged to, the Knights of Columbus, which set up the fund for small business owner members. Because it was set up as a group annuity by a not for profit corporation, the benefits were tax free pursuant to older tax laws.
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I'm sure that if I were assigned the task, I could make a case for payday or even mob loans using carefully chosen anecdotal evidence. They are both still scams used to prey on the vulnerable in many if not most cases.
 
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