Damn You, Tom Selleck!

Helix said:

it is a complete rip off. i hope that no elderly people you know get scammed by reverse mortgage asshole banksters.

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there is no rip off
you are unable to articulate how anyone is ripped off
which surprises me as i thought you worked in the scientific arena, but your positions are emotional rather than objective

justabubba said:

there is no rip off
you are unable to articulate how anyone is ripped off
which surprises me as i thought you worked in the scientific arena, but your positions are emotional rather than objective

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If I may jump in. I think that Reverse Mortgages are a bad financial vehicle for financial reasons, but for a segment, they may be the last vehicle and it should be treated as such. There are many fees associated a Reverse Mortgage--one such example, insurance. When you get a regular mortgage and you don't have enough principle, you have to get Private Mortgage Insurance to protect the banks interest in getting paid back. With a Reverse Mortgage, the individual also has to pay for insurance to ensure that they will receive loan payments in case the bank defaults. Why does a lender need you to pay for insurance to guarantee that they will pay you what is in the agreement?

This is how the Federal Government set up the program. There are many requirements for a Reverse Mortgage but ultimately it is up to the buyer to keep their end of the bargain regarding upkeep and insurance. Having been on the receiving end of the foreclosure after the death of a relative with a reverse mortgage, it is an unpleasant experience at a very bad time.

I hope you get the answer to the questions you have posted. I view Reverse Mortgages as being only a slightly better market than payday loans.

"Rip off" may be the wrong term, but they are very questionable loans with unique terms and questionable consequences.

I would not recommend a reverse mortgage 99.9% of the time, which makes it equal to about how often I would recommend annuities.

AliHajiSheik said:

If I may jump in. I think that Reverse Mortgages are a bad financial vehicle for financial reasons, but for a segment, they may be the last vehicle and it should be treated as such. There are many fees associated a Reverse Mortgage--one such example, insurance. When you get a regular mortgage and you don't have enough principle, you have to get Private Mortgage Insurance to protect the banks interest in getting paid back. With a Reverse Mortgage, the individual also has to pay for insurance to ensure that they will receive loan payments in case the bank defaults. Why does a lender need you to pay for insurance to guarantee that they will pay you what is in the agreement?

This is how the Federal Government set up the program. There are many requirements for a Reverse Mortgage but ultimately it is up to the buyer to keep their end of the bargain regarding upkeep and insurance. Having been on the receiving end of the foreclosure after the death of a relative with a reverse mortgage, it is an unpleasant experience at a very bad time.

I hope you get the answer to the questions you have posted. I view Reverse Mortgages as being only a slightly better market than payday loans.

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if you receive a small business loan from a bank, which loan is guaranteed by the federal government, the small business borrower pays a guaranty fee (not unlike the insurance fee mentioned above) to cover the cost of the risk to the federal government
that fee is paid to the government for making the indemnity on the loan
having been someone who processed those loans, i will assure you the small business owner, who otherwise had no access to the capital needed, was very appreciative of the loan, even with the obligation to incur the cost of the federal loan guaranty fee

reverse mortgage prospects are required to attend a briefing where the unique factors of the reverse mortgage - including fees and obligations to maintain hazard insurance and the payment of ad valorem taxes - are fully explained
that document, signed by the borrower, certifying they were so briefed, is part of the closing package
in my state, reverse mortgage brokers must attend special training before being certified to offer reverse mortgages to clients
nothing about the reverse mortgage should be a surprise to the principals: the borrower, the lender, or the broker

what i suspect drives much of the opposition to reverse mortgages is the disappointment of the prospective heirs, who are surprised to learn that the deceased did not leave them debt free real estate. the deceased had made a decision to live on the equity available in their home; which is often their primary asset
that (usually) retired homeowner who (often) had nothing but a nominal social security check to live on was delighted to recover up to $80,000 cash for each $100,000 equity they had in their home. they were able to spend the cash and live in their own home until they died or were placed in a rest home; in either of those instances, they no longer had need for their home
THAT is the perspective of the elderly homeowner. they could enjoy the equity of their home while still residening in it without having to make any mortgage payments. THEY did not have to repay that loan
those prospective heirs did not show up to offer financial assistance when the elderly homeowner was in need. many could not. others did not. so, the homeowner took the best option available to supplement their meager retirement income. they cashed out their home equity and processed a reverse mortgage

so, i still welcome anyone explaining to me why that is such a bad option for them to have exercised

justabubba said:

there is no rip off
you are unable to articulate how anyone is ripped off
which surprises me as i thought you worked in the scientific arena, but your positions are emotional rather than objective

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Justify robbing the elderly to yourself however you like. I'm not buying.

Helix said:

Justify robbing the elderly to yourself however you like. I'm not buying.

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you may not be buying but neither are you articulating the ways in which a reverse mortgage is found to be "robbing the elderly"

let us know the reasons for your position

justabubba said:

you may not be buying but neither are you articulating the ways in which a reverse mortgage is found to be "robbing the elderly"

let us know the reasons for your position

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Read the link. Either that or just keep standing there plugging your ears screaming "la la la I can't hear you la la la." I don't care which you choose, to be honest. If incessantly defending profiteering off the desparation of the elderly every time it comes up in a thread eases your conscience or whatever, then good luck with that. It's sort of like how payday lenders who rob the poor probably congratulate themselves every night for not breaking any legs that day.

Helix said:

Read the link. Either that or just keep standing there plugging your ears screaming "la la la I can't hear you la la la." I don't care which you choose, to be honest. If incessantly defending profiteering off the desparation of the elderly every time it comes up in a thread eases your conscience or whatever, then good luck with that. It's sort of like how payday lenders who rob the poor probably congratulate themselves every night for not breaking any legs that day.

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i've read the link
i have already explained that to you
as a woman of science, i had allowed myself to believe you could articulate a rational, objective opinion to explain why you believe reverse mortgages are robbing the elderly
but you never do

justabubba said:

i've read the link
i have already explained that to you
as a woman of science, i had allowed myself to believe you could articulate a rational, objective opinion to explain why you believe reverse mortgages are robbing the elderly
but you never do

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Already addressed. Also, I'm a dude.

Helix said:

Read the link. Either that or just keep standing there plugging your ears screaming "la la la I can't hear you la la la." I don't care which you choose, to be honest. If incessantly defending profiteering off the desparation of the elderly every time it comes up in a thread eases your conscience or whatever, then good luck with that. It's sort of like how payday lenders who rob the poor probably congratulate themselves every night for not breaking any legs that day.

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there are people who are EXTREMELY grateful that these loans are available

and there are people who probably wouldnt go near them....

we have a marketplace....not every product is for every person....in fact the majority shouldnt go near a LOT of them

high credit car loans, payday loans, reverse mortgages, etc

but when you filed BK because of medical bills, and the only institution willing to give you another chance to rebuild your credit says 22%, some people say yes

i wont say they are all ripoffs...because i was in the car business for 35 years, and i know i personally helped hundreds of people reestablish credit over the decades

but it is buyer beware....you have to KNOW what you are going into...and the good points and the BAD points

Helix said:

Already addressed. Also, I'm a dude.

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apologies for the gender confusion, but better explains the recent bundle of joy that was recently delivered. congratulations

however, other than offer that you are opposed to reverse mortgages because you believe they rob the elderly, you have presented nothing which tells us why you believe reverse mortgages are so harmful to those who obtain them

gdgyva said:

there are people who are EXTREMELY grateful that these loans are available

and there are people who probably wouldnt go near them....

we have a marketplace....not every product is for every person....in fact the majority shouldnt go near a LOT of them

high credit car loans, payday loans, reverse mortgages, etc

but when you filed BK because of medical bills, and the only institution willing to give you another chance to rebuild your credit says 22%, some people say yes

i wont say they are all ripoffs...because i was in the car business for 35 years, and i know i personally helped hundreds of people reestablish credit over the decades

but it is buyer beware....you have to KNOW what you are going into...and the good points and the BAD points

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Lol. Robbing the poor and elderly isn't just profitable; it's a public service! :lol:

justabubba said:

apologies for the gender confusion, but better explains the recent bundle of joy that was recently delivered. congratulations

however, other than offer that you are opposed to reverse mortgages because you believe they rob the elderly, you have presented nothing which tells us why you believe reverse mortgages are so harmful to those who obtain them

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No worries, and have fun with the la la la.

Helix said:

Lol. Robbing the poor and elderly isn't just profitable; it's a public service! :lol:

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actually, it is only available to the elderly due to federal backing
like guaranteed small business loans
like many student loan programs
open to the public, and a service to them, so yes, it would be fair to refer to it as a public service

those elders residing in their homes while receiving nominal monthly income from social security have an option to receive cash for their equity so that they can buy the things they need. otherwise, they would have to go without
seems like a public service to me

justabubba said:

actually, it is only available to the elderly due to federal backing
like guaranteed small business loans
like many student loan programs
open to the public, and a service to them, so yes, it would be fair to refer to it as a public service

those elders residing in their homes while receiving nominal monthly income from social security have an option to receive cash for their equity so that they can buy the things they need. otherwise, they would have to go without
seems like a public service to me

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I'm aware of the cover story, thanks. We've been around and around about it already in multiple threads.

Helix said:

I'm aware of the cover story, thanks. We've been around and around about it already in multiple threads.

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yes we have
but what has not happened is that you have thus far failed to present any rationale why you believe reverse mortgages inflict robbery upon the elderly

justabubba said:

and nothing in that article indicates the foreclosures were anything other than legitimate actions by the lenders to secure their liability thru the chattel mortgage

the owners of the property, the loan recipients, received up to 80% of the fair market value of their homes
they were NOT obligated to pay anything to the lender. they were obligated to maintain hazard insurance on the real property and to keep property taxes current - just like every other mortgagor - including those who have conventional, non-reverse, mortgages

the owners died, if the family does not pay ff the mortgage balance, then the house goes into foreclosure
what is wrong with that approach?
if the mortgagor fails to pay property taxes, the home is subject to foreclosure by the tax collector, which collector has a claim paramount to the mortgagee
so, what is so unreasonable for the mortgagee to expect the mortgagor to pay their taxes?
if the mortgagor fails to maintain property insurance on the home and it suffers a calamity of flood, fire, mudslide, etc., then the mortgagee has lost much of its collateral value
why is it unreasonable for the mortgagee to expect such hazard insurance coverage to be maintained?

from that article, the persons responsible for the foreclosure were those who failed to comply with the terms of the mortgage. just like anyone else who defaults on the loan covenants, that subject the property, the collateral of the underlying loan, to foreclosure action
so, why is it that they are presented as the victims and the mortgagees as villians in that article?

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Who the hell are you, and what have you done with justabubba?

Rexedgar said:

Seniors were sold a risk-free retirement with reverse mortgages. Now they face foreclosure.

Seniors face foreclosure in retirement after failed reverse mortgage



Check out Tom’s view.........

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The DISCLAIMER/LEGAL ADVISORY which gets flashed on the screen in microscopic typeface for one second at the end of the ad spot:

NMLS# 9392 (Consumer Access). American Advisors Group (AAG) is headquartered at 3800 W. Chapman Ave., 3rd & 7th Floors, Orange CA, 92868. AAG conducts business in the following states: AK (Alaska Mortgage Broker/Lender License No. AK9392), AL, AR, AZ (BK_0911141), CA (CA Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance Lenders Law license (603F324) and Licensed by the Department of Business Oversight under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act (4131144)), CO (Regulated by the Division of Real Estate; to check the license status of your mortgage loan originator, visit Division of Real Estate | Department of Regulatory Agencies), CT, DC
(District of Columbia Mortgage Dual Authority License No. MLB9392), DE, FL, GA (residential Mortgage Licensee #22849), HI, IA, ID, IL (Illinois Residential Mortgage Licensee; Illinois Commissioner of Banks can be reached at 100 West Randolph, 9th Floor, Chicago, Illinois 60601, (312)814-4500), IN, KS (Kansas Licensed Mortgage Company MC. 0025024), KY, LA, MD, ME (SLM11356), MI, MN, MO (4824 NW Gateway Ave, Suite 201, Riverside, MO 64168), MS (Licensed by the Mississippi Department of Banking and Consumer Finance), MT, NC, ND, NE, NH (Licensed by the New Hampshire banking department), NJ (Licensed by the N.J. Department of Banking and Insurance), NM, NV, NY (Licensed Mortgage Banker-NYS Department of Financial Services; American Advisors Group operates as American Advisors Group, Inc. in New York.), OH (MBMB.850159.000), OK, OR (ML-4623), PA (Licensed by the Pennsylvania Department of Banking 28356), RI (Rhode Island Licensed Lender), SD, SC, TN, TX (Mortgage Banker Registration, 13785 Research Blvd, Ste. 125, Austin, TX 78750), UT, VA (Licensed by the Virginia State Corporation Commission MC – 5134), VT (Vermont Lender License No. 6384), WA (Consumer Loan # CL-9392),WV, WI, WY (WY-DBA AAG Reverse Mortgage Lender/Broker License No. 2331). AAG is an equal housing lender. These materials are not from HUD or FHA and were not approved by HUD or a government agency.

A reverse mortgage increases the principal mortgage loan amount and decreases home equity (it is a negative amortization loan). AAG works with other lenders and financial institutions that offer reverse mortgages. To process your request for a reverse mortgage, AAG may forward your contact information to such lenders for your consideration of reverse mortgage programs that they offer.

Reverse mortgage loan terms include occupying the home as your primary residence, maintaining the home, paying property taxes and homeowners insurance. Although these costs may be substantial, AAG does not establish an escrow account for these payments. However, a set-aside account can be set up for taxes and insurance, and in some cases may be required. Not all interest on a reverse mortgage is tax-deductible and to the extent that it is, such deduction is not available until the loan is partially or fully repaid.

AAG charges an origination fee, mortgage insurance premium (where required by HUD), closing costs and servicing fees, rolled into the balance of the loan. AAG charges interest on the balance, which grows over time. When the last borrower or eligible non-borrowing spouse dies, sells the home, permanently moves out, or fails to comply with the loan terms, the loan becomes due and payable (and the property may become subject to foreclosure). When this happens, some or all of the equity in the property no longer belongs to the borrowers, who may need to sell the home or otherwise repay the loan balance.

V2019.04.17

Elvira said:

What does he know about foreclosure anyway, or worrying about making his bills? Google says he only has a net worth of $45 million...:roll:

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I don’t think it is so much about the money for celebrities as it is getting recognition to help them stay relevant.

Helix said:

Lol. Robbing the poor and elderly isn't just profitable; it's a public service! :lol:

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must be cold up there in that lofty perch....

yeah....some people ACTUALLY help people, and make a living doing it.....who would've thought such a radical idea could exist

:shock:

Carleen said:

I don’t think it is so much about the money for celebrities as it is getting recognition to help them stay relevant.

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Then they would do well to consider if they are receiving good recognition or bad...their reputation is on the line, regardless...

Elvira said:

Then they would do well to consider if they are receiving good recognition or bad...their reputation is on the line, regardless...

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Near as I can tell, if you spot a celebrity doing either a "burial expenses life insurance policy" ad or a reverse mortgage ad, it is almost like witnessing a very frail elderly person falling after breaking their hip. It's a fast slide downhill from there.

gdgyva said:

must be cold up there in that lofty perch....

yeah....some people ACTUALLY help people, and make a living doing it.....who would've thought such a radical idea could exist

:shock:

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like i said, stealing from the poor and elderly is an alternate reality public service to some people.

Helix said:

like i said, stealing from the poor and elderly is an alternate reality public service to some people.

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Certainly an alternate reality to the topic. There is no stealing now matter how many times you post it.


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If the elderly did their part and died younger instead of hanging around too long they would be better off.