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Automakers Tell Trump To Negotiate

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
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Automakers Tell Trump His Pollution Rules Could Mean ‘Untenable’ Instability and Lower Profits

"In addition, our customers expect continuous improvements in safety, efficiency, and capability."

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6/6/19
WASHINGTON — The world’s largest automakers warned President Trump on Thursday that one of his most sweeping deregulatory efforts — his plan to weaken tailpipe pollution standards — threatens to cut their profits and produce “untenable” instability in a crucial manufacturing sector. In a letter signed by 17 companies including Ford, General Motors, Toyota and Volvo, the automakers asked Mr. Trump to go back to the negotiating table on the planned rollback of one of President Barack Obama’s signature policies to fight climate change. Mr. Trump’s new rule, which is expected to be made public this summer, would all but eliminate the Obama-era auto pollution regulations, essentially freezing mileage standards at about 37 miles per gallon for cars, down from a target of 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. The policy makes it a near certainty that California and 13 other states will sue the administration while continuing to enforce their own, stricter rules — in effect, splitting the United States auto market in two. For automakers, a bifurcated market is their nightmare scenario. In the letter to Mr. Trump, they warned of “an extended period of litigation and instability” should his plans be implemented.
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As is typical, Donald Trump has sown chaos in yet another critical US industry. 17 automakers have had it with the uncertainty Trump injected into their marketplace.

Related: Automakers tell Trump to cut a deal with California on emissions
 
No Trumpers have tried defending this Trump gaffe yet.

:::crickets:::
 
The New York Times. :roll:
 
Rogue Valley said:
Automakers Tell Trump His Pollution Rules Could Mean ‘Untenable’ Instability and Lower Profits

"In addition, our customers expect continuous improvements in safety, efficiency, and capability."

arlington-gm-line-6.jpg




As is typical, Donald Trump has sown chaos in yet another critical US industry. 17 automakers have had it with the uncertainty Trump injected into their marketplace.

Related: Automakers tell Trump to cut a deal with California on emissions
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Trump lowers emission standards and the will adversely affect the auto manufacturers how exactly?

If they continue down the path they have already chosen they exceed standards. No lose there.

As to a two nation standard.... Surprise. That already exists. California has stood apart from the 49 states since the 1970s. Try brining a non California car into California and you would be dunned anywhere up to $600 to register. As recent as 2012 there were separate standards. My 2012 Royal Enfield is a "California" model with bits that are not required in the other 49 states.
 
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auto makers would be stupid to drop their emissions standards. the electorate might very well kick the orange fool out of office in a year or so, and then a sane president is just going to put the standards back in place.
 
joko104 said:
The New York Times. :roll:
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Seriously. The real issue is buried in the middle. Auto makers want one standard, not one for California and one for everyone else.
 
Helix said:
auto makers would be stupid to drop their emissions standards. the electorate might very well kick the orange fool out of office in a year or so, and then a sane president is just going to put the standards back in place.
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Can someone please explain how removing standards not yet implemented is a cause for this concern? Our standards are already probably the highest in the world.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Can someone please explain how removing standards not yet implemented is a cause for this concern? Our standards are already probably the highest in the world.
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it's a flailing attempt at a step backwards.
 
Helix said:
it's a flailing attempt at a step backwards.
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The current standards have already raised the price of cars extensively. Enough is enough. Let the rest of the world and technology catch up before we pay for that next exponential incremental increase in costs.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The current standards have already raised the price of cars extensively. Enough is enough. Let the rest of the world and technology catch up before we pay for that next exponential incremental increase in costs.
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yeah, fuel standards have hurt the country so much that everyone is driving SUVs now.

derp
 
Lord of Planar said:
Can someone please explain how removing standards not yet implemented is a cause for this concern? Our standards are already probably the highest in the world.
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I think the point is uncertainty. We are our own worst enemy. Here we sit and blabber about what the (today's term) orange fool is doing, but we forget that Obama left us with just as much uncertainty. DACA is one.
Confusing border and immigration laws is another, tracking back through several administrations.
No, I am not bashing Obama, but am wondering if, instead of the constant partisan bickering and childish name calling, we could come up with solutions that would work to move the country forward. Dancing the 2 step isn't helping anyone, orange, brown, black or white.
 
Helix said:
whatever. run your Hummer on coal for all i care. we both already know how we're voting for the foreseeable future. i hope the denialist side loses, and i will vote accordingly.
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Have you seen the new VW bus?
 
Helix said:
no, i hadn't heard about it. looks interesting. i wonder if it will sell.
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It is small but roomy, a bit high priced, but a lot of us hippie types might get nostalgic.
 
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Fledermaus said:
Trump lowers emission standards and the will adversely affect the auto manufacturers how exactly?
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That was explained in the article.

As far as emission standards, you're okay with dirtier air?
 
Rogue Valley said:
That was explained in the article.

As far as emission standards, you're okay with dirtier air?
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Having fought with the emissions people in the past over bizarre regulations I am torn.

Many of California's laws had a side effect of punishing folks with non-California cars or non-spec cars whether or not pollution was lowered.

Example. I purchased a Volkswagen with a carburetor instead of fuel injection. It had been smooged twice prior. It failed when I tried. I went to a referee station. I was told it was an older model engine.

I could find an earlier body to put the engine in to. No decrease in emissions but it would be legal.

I could find a newer engine to put in the current body. Minor decrease in emissions but now legal.

Put the engine in an off road vehicle. No decrease in emissions but it would be legal.

Find the original owner and have them declare the engine went in before a certain date. No decrease in emissions but it would be legal.

(I opted for the last choice)

In other cases speed shops and car magazines modified cars to increase gas mileage, performance and decrease emissions. Then they would take them to be smogged. Lowered emissions yet they failed California testing...
 
Fledermaus said:
Trump lowers emission standards and the will adversely affect the auto manufacturers how exactly?

If they continue down the path they have already chosen they exceed standards. No lose there.

As to a two nation standard.... Surprise. That already exists. California has stood apart from the 49 states since the 1970s. Try brining a non California car into California and you would be dunned anywhere up to $600 to register. As recent as 2012 there were separate standards. My 2012 Royal Enfield is a "California" model with bits that are not required in the other 49 states.
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The biggest reason why GM and Chrysler needed bailouts was that they were building cars that could only be sold in the USA, because they didn't meet mileage or pollution standards elsewhere in the world. This meant that imported cars from Germany and Japan were getting much better mileage with much lower emissions, and the American public embraced these cars. Americans won't buy high pollution gas guzzlers.

This is like trying to bring back coal.
 
Lovebug said:
I think the point is uncertainty. We are our own worst enemy. Here we sit and blabber about what the (today's term) orange fool is doing, but we forget that Obama left us with just as much uncertainty. DACA is one.
Confusing border and immigration laws is another, tracking back through several administrations.
No, I am not bashing Obama, but am wondering if, instead of the constant partisan bickering and childish name calling, we could come up with solutions that would work to move the country forward. Dancing the 2 step isn't helping anyone, orange, brown, black or white.
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That requires a decisive win one way or another.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Automakers Tell Trump His Pollution Rules Could Mean ‘Untenable’ Instability and Lower Profits

"In addition, our customers expect continuous improvements in safety, efficiency, and capability."

arlington-gm-line-6.jpg




As is typical, Donald Trump has sown chaos in yet another critical US industry. 17 automakers have had it with the uncertainty Trump injected into their marketplace.

Related: Automakers tell Trump to cut a deal with California on emissions
Click to expand...

Why cant they continue to improve safety and standards no matter what the US government standards are? Nothing is stopping them from doing so. It seems like trying to place blame for something the auto industry knows is coming, the US is near peak demand on vehicles, they want a scapegoat.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Why cant they continue to improve safety and standards no matter what the US government standards are? Nothing is stopping them from doing so. It seems like trying to place blame for something the auto industry knows is coming, the US is near peak demand on vehicles, they want a scapegoat.
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On safety car manufacturers have gone beyond the government regulations on quite a few cars, lane keeping assist, automatic emergency braking etc. Some manufacturers offer them as standard on many models (Toyota and Honda I believe).

When it comes to emission regulations, most just try to meet the minimum due to the cost of doing so. They can try to exceed in doing so, but the current cost to do so makes the vehicles very expensive and limits consumer demand for them
 
Consumers are fickle. When gas prices spike, fuel-efficient vehicle sales spike and when the fuel prices drop, SUVs are more popular.

There is a drastic contrast to what Europeans drive versus what US drivers drive.
 
Rexedgar said:
Consumers are fickle. When gas prices spike, fuel-efficient vehicle sales spike and when the fuel prices drop, SUVs are more popular.

There is a drastic contrast to what Europeans drive versus what US drivers drive.
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Funny how so few people consider the fluctuations we all know exist.
 
Rexedgar said:
Consumers are fickle. When gas prices spike, fuel-efficient vehicle sales spike and when the fuel prices drop, SUVs are more popular.

There is a drastic contrast to what Europeans drive versus what US drivers drive.
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High gas taxes and cities and town designed before vehicles became popular make smaller more efficient cars more popular in Europe.

Trying to find a place to park a new F150 is a pain in western Canada, I would hate to see how hard it would be drive and park one in some of the older cities in Europe
 
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