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The constitutionality of "stay-at-home" orders

My take is that there is nothing in the Constitution that empowers officials to deprive me of my freedom to travel, and there is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees my right to survive a disease if I catch it. For the most part, we are a nation that needs to volunteer to rise to the occasion and offer to make personal sacrifices for the common good.

That being said, if everyone had good judgment, we wouldn't need laws to say what's in or out of bounds for the greater societal good. Unfortunately most of the country are individuals first, Americans second (or third, fourth, ...) so as a collective population we're going to do some boneheaded things collectively. For the most part I think this has worked out in our favor but the pandemic clearly shows the failing of a culture that says it loves America but generally isn't willing to sacrifice, even voluntarily, for it.
 
Glitch said:
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We know, leftists never consider laws actually applying to them. Laws are meant for others to obey. It is that kind of hypocrisy that defines leftists.
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I wasn't aware of this collective knowledge.
 
Glitch said:
According to the Fifth Amendment “[No person shall] ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Furthermore, the Fourteenth Amendment stays that “[n]o state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States without due process of law.”

Every Governor who has issued a “stay-at-home” order has violated both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the US Constitution. Yes, those Governors were abiding by the laws enacted by their respective State legislatures, but those laws are illegal.
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Your argument is that the guvners didn't do enough due processing to please you in re stay-at-home orders?

Or, are you arguing that guvners can never do enough due processing to please you in re stay-at-home orders because . . . reasons?
 
Glitch said:
According to the Fifth Amendment “[No person shall] ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Furthermore, the Fourteenth Amendment stays that “[n]o state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States without due process of law.”

Every Governor who has issued a “stay-at-home” order has violated both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the US Constitution. Yes, those Governors were abiding by the laws enacted by their respective State legislatures, but those laws are illegal.

The Supreme Court in United States v. Wheeler, 254 U.S. 281 (1920) held that the right to travel without government restriction is one of those “privileges or immunities” of every American. In order to restrict the liberty of anyone both the States and the federal government must require procedural due process. That means a trial for every person they wish to restrict or confine.

No government (local, State, or federal) has the lawful power to curtail natural rights by decree. That includes the illegal curfew ordinances declared by city Mayors. There are no provisions within the US Constitution that grants any government the power to restrict, suspend, or terminate the Bill of Rights.

The States and federal government may only quarantine those who are actively contagious and will infect others imminently. And they must present evidence of both at a trial, at which the government bears the burden of proof.

That means a trial is required before any quarantine, no matter the public danger, for every individual whose liberty they wish to restrict. It must also be a fair trial, not one driven by media-generated mass hysteria or government-generated fear. Anything less is a violation of due process and our constitutionally protected rights.
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Good try, but these actions are protected by the Public Health Service Act and supporting legislation. Initially passed in 1944 (?), there has been ample opportunity for SCOTUS to review. The actions are constitutional.
 
Oh brother, if enough people had worn masks in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue.
 
phoenix2020 said:
My take is that there is nothing in the Constitution that empowers officials to deprive me of my freedom to travel, and there is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees my right to survive a disease if I catch it. For the most part, we are a nation that needs to volunteer to rise to the occasion and offer to make personal sacrifices for the common good.

That being said, if everyone had good judgment, we wouldn't need laws to say what's in or out of bounds for the greater societal good. Unfortunately most of the country are individuals first, Americans second (or third, fourth, ...) so as a collective population we're going to do some boneheaded things collectively. For the most part I think this has worked out in our favor but the pandemic clearly shows the failing of a culture that says it loves America but generally isn't willing to sacrifice, even voluntarily, for it.
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Doesn't have to be in the Constitution. Any constitutional law may be enforced. The Constitution doesn't say I can't steal your property either.
 
beancounter said:
Oh brother, if enough people had worn masks in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue.
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That is a lie.

The places with the highest restrictions on travel, masks, social distancing, and even illegal bans on religious worship are the worst struck - New York and California. Proving that none of the mandates are effective at stopping this virus, but it is certainly getting the rocks off of those fascist Democrat Governors and Mayors who are salivating at the next freedom they can take away from their citizens.

Everything you have been told by Democrat politicians and their sycophants in the media has been an orchestrated lie to deliberately incite as much fear as possible. Looks like you have bought into their propaganda hook, line, and sinker. How pathetic.
 
Glitch said:
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If you actualy made the effort to read the actual order for yourself, you'll find that there are soooo many exceptions in the order as to render the order ineffectual. The lawyers write them that way so that the governor can be seen "doing something about it" without actualy doing anything about it.
 
Antiwar said:
I wasn't aware of this collective knowledge.
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It is indeed. Leftists are very predictable, and being a massive hypocrite is one of the defining traits of a leftist freak. Just ask Gov. Newsom or Cuomo, who both attended parties - unmasked - while telling everyone else not to. Another defining trait of a good leftist freak is mass murder, like what both Gov. Newsom and Cuomo did by Executive Order, intentionally slaughtering tens of thousands of elderly Americans.

So there are indeed tell-tale traits that make identifying a leftist freak both rather easy and faultless.
 
Wayne Jr said:
If you actualy made the effort to read the actual order for yourself, you'll find that there are soooo many exceptions in the order as to render the order ineffectual. The lawyers write them that way so that the governor can be seen "doing something about it" without actualy doing anything about it.
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What order are referring?

There are no mandatory lock-downs, masking, or social distancing in Alaska, and never has been. That would be a violation of the US Constitution.

One city, Anchorage, which is run by the fascist left was locked down, and threats made. They got rid of that Mayor in December and there is now a signed recall petition for the fascist leftist acting Mayor of Anchorage. She will be lucky to survive the Winter.

Otherwise I have been free to travel anywhere I desired, because there were no travel restrictions or social distancing requirements. Shop where ever I please, because there are no closed businesses. And I have never once put on a mask.

The only effect this Wuhan Flu has had on me was to significantly increase the bag limit of both salmon, moose, and caribou due to the lack of out-of-state sport fishermen and hunters.
 
Wayne Jr said:
If you actualy made the effort to read the actual order for yourself, you'll find that there are soooo many exceptions in the order as to render the order ineffectual. The lawyers write them that way so that the governor can be seen "doing something about it" without actualy doing anything about it.
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This is unfortunately true. My states governor issued a mask mandate that didn't include any enforcement or penalties. Completely toothless.
 
Glitch said:
Well, we certainly know where liberty and freedom rank with you. How does it feel to be a government slave?
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We certainly see how much you care about small businesses and sucking off the government teat.
 
Glitch said:
It is indeed. Leftists are very predictable, and being a massive hypocrite is one of the defining traits of a leftist freak. Just ask Gov. Newsom or Cuomo, who both attended parties - unmasked - while telling everyone else not to. Another defining trait of a good leftist freak is mass murder, like what both Gov. Newsom and Cuomo did by Executive Order, intentionally slaughtering tens of thousands of elderly Americans.

So there are indeed tell-tale traits that make identifying a leftist freak both rather easy and faultless.
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What EOs are those that slaughtered tens of thousands of elderly Americans?
 
Glitch said:
According to the Fifth Amendment “[No person shall] ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Furthermore, the Fourteenth Amendment stays that “[n]o state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States without due process of law.”

Every Governor who has issued a “stay-at-home” order has violated both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the US Constitution. Yes, those Governors were abiding by the laws enacted by their respective State legislatures, but those laws are illegal.

The Supreme Court in United States v. Wheeler, 254 U.S. 281 (1920) held that the right to travel without government restriction is one of those “privileges or immunities” of every American. In order to restrict the liberty of anyone both the States and the federal government must require procedural due process. That means a trial for every person they wish to restrict or confine.

No government (local, State, or federal) has the lawful power to curtail natural rights by decree. That includes the illegal curfew ordinances declared by city Mayors. There are no provisions within the US Constitution that grants any government the power to restrict, suspend, or terminate the Bill of Rights.

The States and federal government may only quarantine those who are actively contagious and will infect others imminently. And they must present evidence of both at a trial, at which the government bears the burden of proof.

That means a trial is required before any quarantine, no matter the public danger, for every individual whose liberty they wish to restrict. It must also be a fair trial, not one driven by media-generated mass hysteria or government-generated fear. Anything less is a violation of due process and our constitutionally protected rights.
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We have a federal form of Government. States have recourse to the traditional police power.

The fundamental right of a government to make all necessary laws. In the United States, state police power comes from the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, which gives states the rights and powers "not delegated to the United States." States are thus granted the power to establish and enforce laws protecting the welfare, safety, and health of the public.--https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/police_powers
 
danielpalos said:
We have a federal form of Government. States have recourse to the traditional police power.

The fundamental right of a government to make all necessary laws. In the United States, state police power comes from the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, which gives states the rights and powers "not delegated to the United States." States are thus granted the power to establish and enforce laws protecting the welfare, safety, and health of the public.--https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/police_powers
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Everything you said is absolutely true, and undisputed. The one thing you left out, however, is that States are also subject to the same restrictions and prohibitions as the federal government. A declared emergency does not give States, or the federal government, the authority to disregard the US Constitution. As the Supreme Court held in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905):
While a local regulation, even if based on the acknowledged police power of a State, must always yield in case of conflict with the exercise by the General Government of any power it possesses under the Constitution, the mode or manner of exercising its police power is wholly within the discretion of the State so long as the Constitution of the United States is not contravened, or any right granted or secured thereby is not infringed, or not exercised in such an arbitrary and oppressive manner as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.
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The US Constitution does allow States to implement mandatory quarantines, masking, social distancing, etc., but they must abide by the US Constitution when doing so. Meaning that every individual is entitled to the due process of law as both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment requires. State mandates cannot be applied state-wide without violating the US Constitution.

Every individual is entitled to a trial where the government is required to provide evidence in a court of law that proves beyond a reasonable doubt the accused individual is infected, contagious, and a threat to the public BEFORE depriving them of their liberty through forced quarantines or mask mandates.

Individual due process of law is not a suggestion, it is the Supreme Law of the Land.
 
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beancounter said:
This is unfortunately true. My states governor issued a mask mandate that didn't include any enforcement or penalties. Completely toothless.
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It isn't a mandate if it isn't enforced. It is merely a suggestion.

My Governor asked us to restrict our travel and wear a mask. There were no threats made, no mandates, and most importantly, no violations of the US Constitution.
 
CaughtInThe said:
We certainly see how much you care about small businesses and sucking off the government teat.
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If government upheld the US Constitution, as required, businesses wouldn't be sucking off the government teat. Every so-called "stimulus" check passed by Congress also violates the US Constitution since they do not have the authority. But who cares about the US Constitution, right? They are Democrat filth so the law means absolutely nothing, they will do whatever they please.
 
Glitch said:
If government upheld the US Constitution, as required, businesses wouldn't be sucking off the government teat. Every so-called "stimulus" check passed by Congress also violates the US Constitution since they do not have the authority. But who cares about the US Constitution, right? They are Democrat filth so the law means absolutely nothing, they will do whatever they please.
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A fast moving plague doesn't care anything about our constitution. We're just lucky this was a slow moving one.
 
CaughtInThe said:
A fast moving plague doesn't care anything about our constitution. We're just lucky this was a slow moving one.
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It doesn't matter. Government must abide by the US Constitution at all times, plague or no plague.

The alternative is a government that rounds of citizens in the dead of night and simply makes them disappear. That is what you are arguing for: No trials, no evidence, the government never has to prove anything, they can just make you disappear permanently anytime they please, plague or no plague.

I can think of a few countries that employ those policies, but they are all third-world despot nations run by leftist freaks like Iran or Venezuela. That is not the US.
 
Glitch said:
It doesn't matter. Government must abide by the US Constitution at all times
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And if we do during a fast moving plague then China survives and we don't.

Do you have a pipe?
 
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