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Thread: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I have always believe that up to the TR administration, the government was pretty much in check and operating mostly constitutionally--there were occasional veers off the straight and narrow but for the most part, those elected to high office maintained constitutional principles. It was the Teddy Roosevelt that turned things on their head. He was the first to reject the concept that elected officials can do only what they are authorized to do by the Constitution. He pushed a concept that elected officials can do anything that isn't specifically forbidden by the Constitution. And he, like FDR, packed the court system with judges who would not interfere with that concept. He was the first 'king' in what would become pretty much an unbroken line of them, each assuming more personal power as time passed.

    That is what started the snowball rolling. Slowly and unobtrusively at first on a very gentle incline. But subsequent Presidents did nothing to reverse that interpretation and it got a huge shove in the FDR administration. Ever since then it is been picking up mass and velocity until it has become the massive, unmanageable, unknowable, and uncontrollable entity that the U.S. government is today.

    I honestly think President Trump was elected as our last best chance to smash it to smithereens or at least fragment it so that we could begin reclaiming our constitutional protections and a government by the people. I still believe, perhaps without putting it into the words I would use, that he has the same instincts. But he likely won't be allowed to accomplish as much as we who voted for him had hoped.
    Well so far he has undone a lot of those powers that obama abused.
    He has pushed things that should be in congress on congress to fix.

    The only way to reclaim constitutional protections is to file review suits in court.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Now, just imagine where we'd be if we'd started this process of disassembling executive ascendancy during the Bush years. But no...

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Well so far he has undone a lot of those powers that obama abused.
    He has pushed things that should be in congress on congress to fix.

    The only way to reclaim constitutional protections is to file review suits in court.
    That won't work unless we have courts that operate as the Founders/Constitution intended and most don't. You can't tell me the Supreme Court is serious about constiuttional integrity when vote after vote after vote splits 5/4. President Trump intends to appoint judges and justices who are constitutionalists instead of activists but if the haters are successsful in regaining the Senate in 2018 and putting their own guy in there in 2020, we might as well hang it up. The Constitution will be lost to us I'm afraid forever. And the fecklessness of the Senate GOP majority is not conducive to keeping that majority.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    That video about says it all. I first became interested in politics watching the democratic and republican conventions on TV back in 1956. With Eisenhower as president he would have Rayburn and LBJ, LBJ then senate majority leader over to the white house three times a week to discuss how to get IKE's agenda through congress. That's something you won't see today.

    The video spoke of Rayburn working closely with IKE, JFK learned also and he along with LBJ work closely with Everitt Dirksen, then Republican senate minority leader to help get their agenda through congress. Cooperation was key. Different era back then. definitely not as partisan. It was a time when I think both parties leaders put country ahead of party. I can't remember any party line votes back then. But times were different. Each party had its liberal and conservative wings. Perhaps that made compromise easier.
    Maybe it did. And in their absence, there does seem to be more polarization. But, as you've pointed out, Congress folk of the majority party didn't see themselves as in service to the President, as "the king's men."

    Watching the video is well worth the time of all those taking a serious part in this thread's discussion. Whether it's a memory jog or a history lesson, what a reminder of how to lead while getting along. Until you brought up "Mr. Sam," I just hadn't thought about what a difference would be made with this kind of independent yet cooperative leadership that answer to the people rather than to the President. I'm really grateful you made this powerful point.


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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Maybe it did. And in their absence, there does seem to be more polarization. But, as you've pointed out, Congress folk of the majority party didn't see themselves as in service to the President, as "the king's men."

    Watching the video is well worth the time of all those taking a serious part in this thread's discussion. Whether it's a memory jog or a history lesson, what a reminder of how to lead while getting along. Until you brought up "Mr. Sam," I just hadn't thought about what a difference would be made with this kind of independent yet cooperative leadership that answer to the people rather than to the President. I'm really grateful you made this powerful point.

    You're most welcome. Being an old fart, I have seen politics change immensely. From a debate about substance, ideas, visions, solutions with hardly no, none, personal negative attacks to almost all negative personal attacks with no substance. Back then the negative was basically what a candidate did while in office, not personal life stuff and no name calling.

    Sure, there was the flower girl ad in 1964, only shown once by the LBJ folks. That was enough. Most of the adverse stuff in 1968 was within the Democratic Party. McGovern was labeled the peace dove candidate in 1972, few knew George was a WWII bomber pilot hero.

    Reagan was the cowboy and so on. But nothing like we have today. Here is an example of an IKE political ad I was brought up with.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG4IX5jBc4Q
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    That won't work unless we have courts that operate as the Founders/Constitution intended and most don't. You can't tell me the Supreme Court is serious about constiuttional integrity when vote after vote after vote splits 5/4. President Trump intends to appoint judges and justices who are constitutionalists instead of activists but if the haters are successsful in regaining the Senate in 2018 and putting their own guy in there in 2020, we might as well hang it up. The Constitution will be lost to us I'm afraid forever. And the fecklessness of the Senate GOP majority is not conducive to keeping that majority.
    I agree it is a problem. Courts have become political not judicial which is of major concern to me.
    That is when freedom starts being lost.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    The up coming scandal and trial of Hillary and the Obama Administration will show how the executive branch weaponized its power, against American citizens and political opponent, and used that power for personal gain. Drain the swamp addresses this corruption in the executive branch, under president Obama and his secretary of state Clinton.

    If you haven't been following the research being done by Sara Carter, it turns out the Obama Injustice Department in conjunction with the FBI, used a known fake dossier as an excuse to spy on Americans. The Obama administration had also used the IRS to target right wing political groups. The things that Richard Nixon did was small change compared to this. The worse scandals in US history is about to make the front page.

    Consider the number of laws and regulations that came from the Executive branch and from regulatory agencies under Obama. These have been scaled back, by the Trump team, thereby reducing the power of the executive branch. In 2016, Obama and the bureaucracy created 3,853 regs, or 18 new regulations for every law created by Congress, for a record 97,110 pages of red tape.

    If Trump was interested in more power for the executive branch, he would try to break Obama's record. Most of Trump's Executive orders reduced regulations thereby taking power away from Washington and the Executive branch. Trump and his followers are ahead of the curve, being proactive to concerns many are just starting to see.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I agree it is a problem. Courts have become political not judicial which is of major concern to me.
    That is when freedom starts being lost.
    Yes. When the courts no longer support the Constitution but bypass it by inserting their own sociopolitical intentions into it and that is then regarded as law, we have pretty well lost the country. We are no longer a government of the people but are subjects to the dictatorship of a small unelected oligarchy that can do anything it wants to anybody.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    The Trump presidency sure is driving me nuts. Every once in a while, Trump releases a funny tweet, but that's about it of the good things.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Jay Cost at National Review argues that in fewer than 70 years, we have developed a “pervasive sense of presidential omnipotence and omniscience,” the notion that a President is all-powerful and everywhere, and that this may be driving us all crazy. In a republic, centering government power around one person and making that person a celebrity superstar is not very republican, he says, and adds:

    The fact that any president could rile up the nation as Trump has is an illustration of how overgrown the executive power has become. The notion of “coequal branches” is a 20th-century invention. For most of the nation’s history prior to the Great Depression, the president played second fiddle to Congress. This was by constitutional design. The Framers envisioned the legislature, not the president, as the fount of republican authority, and they designed a government accordingly.

    Cost observes that when Teddy Roosevelt reinvigorated the Presidency, his opponents mocked him for it, and he blames “Progressive Democrats” assuming power under Wilson and certainly under FDR for “giving the president a leadership role that he had only occasionally possessed before.”

    He also notes that FDR’s admin was the first to exploit mass-communications technology. With successive admins, “Presidential exposure has scaled up accordingly.” His opinion:

    I think one reason for these bipartisan manifestations of presidential derangement syndrome is the mythological foundation of the modern presidency. A core operating assumption of the office is that one human being can possibly speak for the national interest generally understood. That is fanciful. At most, the president will always express a particular view of the national interest, thereby creating the potential for cognitive dissonance in a sizable minority of the country. Because he is now able to speak to us so often, this mental discomfort can be nearly constant for his opponents. And because he is now so powerful, he also makes it seem to them that he is ruining the country. Trump & Obama Derangement Syndrome Rooted in Myth of President as King | National Review

    I’m with the author: I too hope that the “lemonade” here is that perhaps the Trump administration is exposing institutional flaws that will lead to the scaling back of the Executive and the reformation and restoration of the Congress.
    "The most powerful office in the world" is a tag that no president labeled for himself. US presidents have always been expected to lead the country and they do - if they have the personal ability: FDR had that ability, Trump does not. So HIS presidency is driving US crazy, yes. Did Reagan speak for the country? or would have been better that he kept his mouth shut? Did FDR speak for the country in his Big Three meetings, or should HE have stayed home and kept his mouth shut?
    “The people do not want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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