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Thread: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

  1. #11
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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"
    a very short drive for many of us

    we have a triad of power as defined by the Constitution. that should be enough to keep the presidency (congress and supreme court) in check
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    Quote Originally Posted by SCrider View Post
    You think a guy who rips off his own charity has the best interest of the country in mind?
    45<44

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That is a serious problem, yes.
    But not if you judge that type of activity as "our" congress critters surely do - it yields a re-election rate in excess of 90%. In the world of politics that is damned near perfection. If you can't figure out just how/why something (name your least favorite government activity) is happening then you can't very well hold anyone electable accountable for it. Congress can blame the POTUS, the POTUS can blame congress (or the swamp).
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    But not if you judge that type of activity as "our" congress critters surely do - it yields a re-election rate in excess of 90%. In the world of politics that is damned near perfection. If you can't figure out just how/why something (name your least favorite government activity) is happening then you can't very well hold anyone electable accountable for it. Congress can blame the POTUS, the POTUS can blame congress (or the swamp).
    I have advocated a Constitutional amendment which keeps Congress from passing off its responsibility to legislate to executive agencies.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I have advocated a Constitutional amendment which keeps Congress from passing off its responsibility to legislate to executive agencies.
    Hmm... absent the text of such an amendment that concept is hard to discuss.

    The obvious question is who, other than the POTUS, would seek to enforce that?

    Dear congress, I am baffled as to how to properly spend $X billion that you have so generously allocated to be spent by my assigns so I am returning it to the treasury. Sincerely, the POTUS - is very unlikely to happen.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hmm... absent the text of such an amendment that concept is hard to discuss.

    The obvious question is who, other than, the POTUS would seek to enforce that? Dear congress, I am baffled as to how to properly spend $X billions that you have so generously allocated to be spent by my assigns so I am returning it to the treasury. Sincerely, the POTUS - is very unlikely to happen.
    Anyone affected by a regulatory agency rather than specific statute.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Anyone affected by a regulatory agency rather than specific statute.
    I see, so one merely has to show standing, proceed (at considerable personal cost) through the "chain of command" of federal judicial system (including the appeals process) and ultimately let the SCOTUS, if they are so inclined, make the final call.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Jay Cost at National Review argues that in fewer than 70 years, we have developed a “pervasive sense of presidential omnipotence and omniscience,” the notion that a President is all-powerful and everywhere, and that this may be driving us all crazy. In a republic, centering government power around one person and making that person a celebrity superstar is not very republican, he says, and adds:

    The fact that any president could rile up the nation as Trump has is an illustration of how overgrown the executive power has become. The notion of “coequal branches” is a 20th-century invention. For most of the nation’s history prior to the Great Depression, the president played second fiddle to Congress. This was by constitutional design. The Framers envisioned the legislature, not the president, as the fount of republican authority, and they designed a government accordingly.

    Cost observes that when Teddy Roosevelt reinvigorated the Presidency, his opponents mocked him for it, and he blames “Progressive Democrats” assuming power under Wilson and certainly under FDR for “giving the president a leadership role that he had only occasionally possessed before.”

    He also notes that FDR’s admin was the first to exploit mass-communications technology. With successive admins, “Presidential exposure has scaled up accordingly.” His opinion:

    I think one reason for these bipartisan manifestations of presidential derangement syndrome is the mythological foundation of the modern presidency. A core operating assumption of the office is that one human being can possibly speak for the national interest generally understood. That is fanciful. At most, the president will always express a particular view of the national interest, thereby creating the potential for cognitive dissonance in a sizable minority of the country. Because he is now able to speak to us so often, this mental discomfort can be nearly constant for his opponents. And because he is now so powerful, he also makes it seem to them that he is ruining the country. Trump & Obama Derangement Syndrome Rooted in Myth of President as King | National Review

    I’m with the author: I too hope that the “lemonade” here is that perhaps the Trump administration is exposing institutional flaws that will lead to the scaling back of the Executive and the reformation and restoration of the Congress.
    I think that the author is speaking to emotions around the office rather than to actual changes that have made the presidency much stronger, such as :

    1. The importance of Federal agencies to interpret law and make changes. More agencies with more power. President gets to pick who is on these agencies/commissions.

    2. Use of executive orders. Who knew that we could legitimize hundreds of thousands of people who were considered illegally here with the stroke of a pen as an example.

    3. Ability to appoint judges. While this was always the case, not sure that the judiciary has ever been as politically partisan as it is currently.

    4. Congress can get virtually nothing done. Here I look back to the Gingrich era. Congress became more like a parliament, where members are expected to vote alone party lines almost exclusively. It takes a 2008 like election to get a veto proof senate for either party. Thus little of substance can get done.

    5. Point #4 is reflected in where the power of the presidency probably (hopefully) reached its peak, with the "Power of the phone and the pen". We are now entering an era I think where when a president uses executive orders, the other party will be able to find a like-minded judge to stay the order.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I see, so one merely has to show standing, proceed (at considerable personal cost) through the "chain of command" of federal judicial system (including the appeals process) and ultimately let the SCOTUS, if they are so inclined, make the final call.
    That's how pretty much any challenge to any law works.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That's how pretty much any challenge to any law works.
    Yep, but (amazingly?) with no need for a constitutional amendment at all.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: "Is the Presidency Driving Us Nuts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep, but (amazingly?) with no need for a constitutional amendment at all.
    I don't know what you mean. You were asking who would be the ones to "enforce" my suggested Amendment.
    The only reason to be anti-libertarian is there are people you want to control that you wouldn't be able to.

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