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Thread: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

  1. #21
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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    What we should have learned in a Civics Class:
    *All democracies have three fundamental characteristics: The independence of the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial powers. These three "independent" bodies are the only guaranties of real freedom of a nation from "usurpation" of political power.
    *All such democracies employ the popular-vote to designate their representative to the Executive and Legislative positions, with the exception of the Judiciary (that is nominated by the Executive, but approved by the Legislature).
    *All political offices (local, state and national) in a truly democratic nation will be obtained by means of the popular-vote and only the popular-voting process.
    *The voting regulations will describe and conduct fair voting-procedures at regular intervals in order to assure the collective consent by means of a popular-vote of the nation's constituents of voting age.
    *By "fair voting procedures" is meant:
    **No voter with a proper identity card, of a stipulated age, and proving their residence will be forbidden to vote.
    **No voting district will be "gerrymandered" to concentrate the vote favoring any political party
    **Voting hours and procedures will be fair and honest to accommodate the largest number possible of all voters.
    *sigh* I wish these people would understand America was never meant to be a direct democracy. America is a Constitutional Republic! Therefore, the Electoral College stays put. This is because I don't want sh!tholes like New York, LA, Chicago, etc. dictating the agenda of the country. The EC is the fairest, most equitable way to elect the POTUS


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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I will not be presumptuous and assume what others may or may know about our government and Constitution. I am sure that there are people who are well-educated in constitutional history, while others may not.
    One need not be a professor of Constitutional Law. One needs only a sense of "basic fairness and equity".

    And you have shown, as others who believe in the sanctity of the Electoral College, that you have none.
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    And here is a bit of American legislative history as determined by the Supreme Court already in the mid-1960s (from here):

    Of course, the applies applies to the internal districting of a state. What remains to be seen is the number of Electoral Votes to which a state can be effected given its population. That subscription must reflect the exact voting population of the state, that is, according to its exact number of "voting constituents".

    And, of course, the Federal government has the right to define the mechanism that permits a voter to vote in a Federal election (which ipso facto should also define the same right at the state-level). Or, it should have.

    Everybody likes to harp back to the Constitution when it comes to voting rights. But, in fact, the Constitution as regards Amendment 12 (passed in 1804,
    when the country was barely 8 years old) created the Electoral College. And why?

    Because how could "the country" at the time execute national elections for state representatives to the presidency and Congress in a timely manner. It was necessary that the vote be executed in the states and then reported to Congress - and for that the Electoral College was conceived. And the smaller states took advantage of the situation to institute both the EC-rules - like winner take all votes, which is not the LEAST BIT proportional. As well as disproportionality between the voting population number and the EC voting number. In addition gerrymandering the state to manipulate the vote outcome.
    (Lest we forget why the above rules were thought necessary. There were neither any trains nor any highways in 1804. Just heavily used "trails" for horse drawn carriages.)

    Do those same unfair voting conditions exist today? Yes! Because we've never done anything about changing them!

    Moreover, an excellent must-read article regarding the Electoral College from the Minneapolis Post: 10 reasons why the Electoral College is a problem
    12th Amendment did not create the Electoral College. Why do you willfully continue to be wrong about that? Speaking of poor civics learning. Jees.


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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    The constitution does not say anything about male-female equality either. Therefore, for you, there is none.

    I do not think that was in the initial spirit of those who conceived it originally.

    One Amendment can annul another - but, yes, any amendment must be passed by a popular vote of the nation. Thank God, then, that the 12th Amendment's destitution need not be voted in the Electoral College itself ... !
    Repealing the 12 Amendment still leaves the Electoral College in place but would have given us Vice-President Clinton.


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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    One need not be a professor of Constitutional Law. One needs only a sense of "basic fairness and equity".

    And you have shown, as others who believe in the sanctity of the Electoral College, that you have none.
    I do not apologize for believing in the Constitution.

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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    One need not be a professor of Constitutional Law. One needs only a sense of "basic fairness and equity".

    And you have shown, as others who believe in the sanctity of the Electoral College, that you have none.
    I like the Electoral College. I certainly do not want to see it changed. As for "basic fairness and equity," I would think one should know the Constitution and, if unhappy with it, one needs to use Article V of the Constitution to try to change it.

    Do I take it your candidate lost in 2000 and/or 2016? Apparently Bush & Trump understood the Electoral College and Gore and Clinton did not. If we did not have the Electoral College, my guess is Bush and Trump would have run a different race than what they did.

    Have I yet shown you that I do not need a civics lesson?

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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    No, but we do vote both Chambers of Congress, and they most certainly vote on "issues" ...
    Correct. It is a representative republic. If you want true democracy, you would want to directly vote on the issues.

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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    The constitution does not say anything about male-female equality either. Therefore, for you, there is none.
    Nor does it call for a socialist or a communist state. The Constitution is very clear on what type of government we should have and that is a republic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    I do not think that was in the initial spirit of those who conceived it originally.!
    It most certainly was. I even offered you Madison's quotes on the subject. Would you like more quotes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    One Amendment can annul another - but, yes, any amendment must be passed by a popular vote of the nation. Thank God, then, that the 12th Amendment's destitution need not be voted in the Electoral College itself ... !
    I am fine with the 12th Amendment.

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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Nor does it call for a socialist or a communist state. The Constitution is very clear on what type of government we should have and that is a republic.
    That was never the alternative proposition. Electoral Fairness was, however.

    Moving right along ...
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    Re: Fair voting, election guidelines and separation of powers

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    12th Amendment did not create the Electoral College. Why do you willfully continue to be wrong about that? Speaking of poor civics learning. Jees.
    Never said or even intimated that proposition.

    Learn how to read English ...
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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