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Thread: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    First, your analogy doesn't fit the situation. FAIL

    The "winner" doesn't go on to push policy that impacts everyone living in the Nation.
    Actually it fits the situation perfectly as every other political election in America is decided by who gets the most votes and that is how the winner is decided. No other election is decided on some half-assed EC formula as the presidency is.

    So the only one failing here is you.
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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    A "Democratic Republic" and a "Federal Republic" are vastly different things.

    A Constitutional Monarchy and a Dictatorial Monarchy are also vastly different things even though they share a word in the description.

    You rightly cited the New England town hall. This is a device that brings the power of government closer to the people.

    What you are asking for is a device that removes the power of government further from the people.

    A Democratic Republic on the scale of the USA would in effect be an oligarchy. We are already dangerously close to that sorry state of affairs.

    The further we can withdraw from sending more power to DC, the better off we will all be.
    The constitution only mandates a republican form of government and abolishing the EC would not be any violation of that mandate.
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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually it fits the situation perfectly as every other political election in America is decided by who gets the most votes and that is how the winner is decided. No other election is decided on some half-assed EC formula as the presidency is.

    So the only one failing here is you.
    There is no connection and relevance to a sporting event, versus electing the President of the United States.

    Please explain how the "victor" in your example would then go about setting National Policy that would impact every person living in the United States.

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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    There is no connection and relevance to a sporting event, versus electing the President of the United States.

    Please explain how the "victor" in your example would then go about setting National Policy that would impact every person living in the United States.
    The comparison is apt as a sporting event is decided by who scores the most points. In elections the points are votes.

    Are you really asking me to explain to you how the President of the USA would impact the people of the USA by his policies and decisions? I would think such knowledge is fairly basic.
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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Is there some disability which prevents you from discussing the issue on its merits and resorting to childish personal sniping?
    There is no merit or issue to your story and you know it. It's just another rant in a very long line of them.
    Buddy take a look at your post.... "childish"
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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    The problem is that the True Democracy you exhort is the true end of the Federal Republic.

    You are asking that the country be divided immediately into at least two sub countries.

    How in the world does the excerpt from the Federalist Papers support your thesis?
    You mean to tell us that all the people who voted for Trump would move to the crapholes like Alabama?

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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    People in Iowa don't think the way people in New York do and vice-versa.
    Actually there are only two kinds of people in Iowa, New York or anywhere else in this nation. One is the low intellect uneducated, who due to their large numbers gave us Trump and the other is the thinking ones who understand that no matter where in the nation one may be, we all are truly interdependent on each other and can not survive as a nation without each other. It is only the morons who advocate secession because they are too stupid to understand reality.

    The Congress, where the real power lies, is where our Founding Fathers provided democratic representation.
    The perfect argument against the electoral college.

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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Reality proves you wrong as people in all fifty states can be found on all sides of issues and for and against all manner of candidates and political parties. .

    So you prefer a tyranny of the minority? That goes against a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
    Are you seriously asserting that

    the goals and life style, income and interests of a person who has chosen to make his home on the edge of the Rocky Mountains in Wyoming

    and the life style, income and interests of a person who has chosen to make his home on the edge of Central Park in New York City are directly identical?

    Is this really your thesis to support the termination of the Constitutional government we currently enjoy?
    Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, ...every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right. -George Orwell

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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense 1 View Post
    Still struggling to accept the giant Hillary loss. Your silly basketball story means nothing. Absolutely nothing!
    You just have to accept the fact and move on with your life. Trump won! Now repeat after me Trump won!
    Actually, Haymarket's sports analogy makes sense.

    The Electoral College wasn't put in place to usurp the voting will of the people. It was put in place in an attempt to ensure voters from great distances (rural areas) were well informed and incorporated into the voting process. The problem is when these large regions or counties are declared to have swung for a particular presidential candidate, all it would take for that candidate to win the entire state would be for a simple majority of regions/counties to be declared for said candidate, whereas the majority of voters throughout a given state could have voted the other way. This creates a problem if a state has very small rural counties but large metro areas, yet those metro areas are grossly outnumbered by the rural counties. This is exactly what we saw take place in the 2016 presidential election in several states.

    Then there's the problem of the electors themselves, these so-called delegates (and super-delegates). As we saw in the 2016 presidential election, if enough pressure is put on these delegates, they've "vote as they're told or as promised" instead of pledging to vote in the way the entire state's overall vote was carried. That is the real problem with the Electoral College. It really does NOT reconcile to vote based on "the will of the people" and it's an argument that's always completely missed in these such debates.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Actually, Haymarket's sports analogy makes sense.

    The Electoral College wasn't put in place to usurp the voting will of the people. It was put in place in an attempt to ensure voters from great distances (rural areas) were well informed and incorporated into the voting process. The problem is when these large regions or counties are declared to have swung for a particular presidential candidate, all it would take for that candidate to win the entire state would be for a simple majority of regions/counties to be declared for said candidate, whereas the majority of voters throughout a given state could have voted the other way. This creates a problem if a state has very small rural counties but large metro areas, yet those metro areas are grossly outnumbered by the rural counties. This is exactly what we saw take place in the 2016 presidential election in several states.

    Then there's the problem of the electors themselves, these so-called delegates (and super-delegates). As we saw in the 2016 presidential election, if enough pressure is put on these delegates, they've "vote as they're told or as promised" instead of pledging to vote in the way the entire state's overall vote was carried. That is the real problem with the Electoral College. It really does NOT reconcile to vote based on "the will of the people" and it's an argument that's always completely missed in these such debates.
    Spin how ever you want. The plain simple fact is Trump won so no matter how you guys try to spin the tale
    it really does not matter. Ramble on and on the end result is the same. Please accept reality of the situation
    and stop the fairy tale wishes that he is not president. If you don't like the EC then work to change it. But
    considering that republican's control something like 35 state house is not going to happen anytime soon.
    Text from FBI Attorney Page to FBI Agent Strozk.
    “Trump’s not ever going to become president, right? Right!?” Page texted Strzok in August 2016.
    “No. No he won’t. We’ll stop it,” Strzok responded.

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