• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear Arms?

Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
care to explain the strange corrolation between America's high gun-ownership rate, its high crime rate, and its high imprisonment rate?

looks like: more guns= more crime= less safe society.
Click to expand...

More freedoms, high diversity and multiple cultures, high rate of welfare-dependency and single-parent homes. It's really not too complicated. Highly homogenous western populations tend to have less crime regardless of the gun ownership rates, and strong cultural identity tends to lower crime rates. Comparing countries/gun ownership rates/crime rates is comparing apples to oranges.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
what's the murder rate in Great Britain?

France? Germany? Holland?
Click to expand...

I asked you for a source for your baseless claims and you pose questions to me?... How disappointing. Anything that can be asserted without evidence, can be disregarded just as easily.


lizzie said:
More freedoms, high diversity and multiple cultures, high rate of welfare-dependency and single-parent homes. It's really not too complicated. Highly homogenous western populations tend to have less crime regardless of the gun ownership rates, and strong cultural identity tends to lower crime rates. Comparing countries/gun ownership rates/crime rates is comparing apples to oranges.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the real comparisons one should make are rates between American cities/states that allow CCW and those that don't.

Besides, violent crimes are on the decline and abortion has more to do than any useless law against guns.
 
Last edited:
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
Its seems like some of the folks who soooo strongly support the unabridged & umimpeded right to keep & bear arms, seem to waver in their commitment to Freedom of Speech & Assembly.

...and of course, the other way around.

Which is more important: the Right to Keep & Bear Arms or Freedom of Speech & Assembly?

and what good is the Right to have guns if you won't use them to defend your fellow Americans' freedom of speech?
Click to expand...

It depends on the situation - if rights clash which one must give depends on exactly what the issue is.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
looks like: more guns= more crime= less safe society.
Click to expand...

The highest crime rate is in the cities where the poverty runs high. The more poverty the more crime. In another sense the states with the most people that carry guns have the lowest crime rate. Its kind of common sense. If theres a store that allows its workers to have a gun and a store that doesn't which store are you gonna rob?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
Its seems like some of the folks who soooo strongly support the unabridged & umimpeded right to keep & bear arms, seem to waver in their commitment to Freedom of Speech & Assembly.

...and of course, the other way around.

Which is more important: the Right to Keep & Bear Arms or Freedom of Speech & Assembly?

and what good is the Right to have guns if you won't use them to defend your fellow Americans' freedom of speech?
Click to expand...

None.

As to the the guns question, since I think this is the real question for this thread, I remember reading somewhere that during the Cold War the Soviets (I think) said the problem with invading America was that every household had a weapon and they wouldn't be just fighting the military alone. I won't swear to this, but I think I remember correctly.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Billy the Kid said:
None.

As to the the guns question, since I think this is the real question for this thread, I remember reading somewhere that during the Cold War the Soviets (I think) said the problem with invading America was that every household had a weapon and they wouldn't be just fighting the military alone. I won't swear to this, but I think I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

It wasn't just the soviets, but yes you are correct.

I think this is like choosing between your heart and your lungs. Which is more important to you? Your heart or your lungs?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

lizzie said:
I don't think I could rate either as more important. They seem to balance each other.
Click to expand...

That's probably why they were both included. Though the founders originally consider them self-evident, and needed no mention of them.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

On a political level, the freedom of speech is probably a tad more important, but it is much more easily taken away if the population is unarmed. On a personal level that would be reversed, as self defense with a firearm sure beats yelling for help. ;-)
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

ttwtt78640 said:
On a political level, the freedom of speech is probably a tad more important, but it is much more easily taken away if the population is unarmed. On a personal level that would be reversed, as self defense with a firearm sure beats yelling for help. ;-)
Click to expand...


Until you kill the wrong person because the adrenaline rush destroys your ability to think in a rational manner.

If Cops Can’t Hit in a Gunfight, How Good Are You Going to Be?
... both NYPD and LAPD give hit-rates that hover around 30 percent. In the article, New York claimed a 34 percent hit rate, while LA listed a 31 percent hit rate last year. But, upon a closer read, you will find that even these low numbers misstate the real facts. You see, these 30 percent hit rates include shots fired at dogs, cars, and even police suicides, which tragically run about 100 percent hits. During 1999 in New York, only 13 percent of the bullets fired during police gunfights struck home. During 2006, NYPD’s gunfight hit rate was a much better 30 percent, but we don’t have enough information to know if this was a maintainable improvement or just a statistical variation.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

While I will certainly agree that punching holes in fixed paper targets is far different from 'combat' shooting, I will not agree that I would spew ramdom lead in all directions under stress. I would dare say that I spend far more 'range time' than most in law enforcement. I do not get paid time off for a 'shooting investigation' either, making it less likely that I will bark off a few rounds 'just in case', I would much more likely be behind bars for the shooting investigation, so I will fire only at a very well defined target.
 
Last edited:
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Most governments could stop a public uprising, especially one with as much power as the US Federal Government. The Michigan militia isn't about to take over the government.

Words are knowledge and knowledge is power. Words have the ability to change people's minds and impact policy.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Freedom of speech is already 90% dead. Speech is only free as long as it isn't in public, that is the main thing I have taken through the social climate over the last few years. Look at all the livelihoods that were lost due to so-called free speech. All the fake apologies given for speaking their minds. US citizens are being detained because of so-called free speech. They are trying to rewrite the 2nd amendment now also, so we need to fight hard to keep that one intact. Keep your guns and take your rights back.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

The right to bear arms gives me the means to defend my freedom of speach.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

To answer the question, could those rights be equal? Must one be greater than the other?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Henry David said:
To answer the question, could those rights be equal? Must one be greater than the other?
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. The OP premise is moot, we have a Constitution with both.

/thread
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Necromancy!


Zombie thread rises from the grave... "Brains! Brains!!!"

Shambles around DP, confused... "Brains?? Brains???"

Wanders off forlornly into the night.... "Brains??"

:mrgreen:
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Goshin said:
Necromancy!


Zombie thread rises from the grave... "Brains! Brains!!!"

Shambles around DP, confused... "Brains?? Brains???"

Wanders off forlornly into the night.... "Brains??"

:mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Must be getting close to Halloween.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

you don't have it listed.


its the right to property, because without property... no rights exist.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

How about freedom of religion (Amendment I, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", that's what this country was founded on?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Why must any one right be more important than the others? Importance of any one right may depend more on your position in life at this given moment, but they are all important rights.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

GreenvilleGrows said:
What's more important in your car - the gas pedal or the brake or is it the steering wheel?

It depends on what you need right then. When I'm driving down the interstate on a full tank of gas, it seems like the brake is unnecessary. The steering wheel can get me out of just about any problem I face. But, if things go wrong or if I have to get off the interstate, I need the brake. And, when I need it, I really need it. It doesn't matter how fast the gas pedal got me going or how well the steering works, if you need the brake pedal, it better be there and it better work.
Click to expand...

It sounds like your arguing the brake pedal is the most important. I am going to assume most people would agree with you. But, in your analogy, what does the brake pedal represent?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

400321 said:
And also, having guns and no free speech would just cause violence everywhere. People would fight for their freedom of speech using their guns, and so on.
Click to expand...

"I agree, we can't have people with guns running around fighting for their freedom of speech." -said every dictator ever
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
some of the most evil & oppresive governments have been taken down without firing a shot or brandeshing a weapon.

Communist Poland. The German Democratic Republic. Communist Czechoslovakia. Communist Hungary.

Not only do more guns NOT ensure a safer society, but they are clearly NOT needed to overthrow tyranny.
Click to expand...

Good point, all you need to overthrow tyranny is a couple decades of oppression, a destroyed economy, and a starving populace. Eventually, tyranny will just say "screw it".
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Thunder said:
and some dictators loosen restrictions on guns, how about that?
Click to expand...

Sounds great, sign me up for that dictator! Question, though. I don't want to sound picky, but while this new dictator is ruling over me, can he have my rations delivered to my residence? The last one made us stand in lines outside and it suuuuucked.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Posted by Thunder
"some of the most evil & oppresive governments have been taken down without firing a shot or brandeshing a weapon.

Communist Poland. The German Democratic Republic. Communist Czechoslovakia. Communist Hungary.

Not only do more guns NOT ensure a safer society, but they are clearly NOT needed to overthrow tyranny."

Right on Thunder, communist took over Germany in 1919, and Russia in 1917.

Communist took over America, or began taking over in the 1980's and all finished taking over today.

Yes, guns cannot save Constitutional America. The Constitution made a citizen armed revolution unnecessary in the U.S. forevermore and actually counterproductive. The Constitution provides the citizenry a peaceful means with impunity to maintain Constitutional America and Constitutional American cannot be maintained any other way, or by any other method than that written in the Constitution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom