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Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear Arms?

Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Murder rate is likely related to guns since guns make it easier to kill. But that would be a guess, and it's not to say that overall we suffer higher violent crime in general. Highest per capita number of guns is of course related to the fact that we allow guns; so that's a no-brainer. Highest prison rate is because the government loves to throw people in jail and we have laws against pretty much everything. That one isn't so much related to guns as much as it's related to overzealous government and its use of force against the People.

highest gun-ownership rate of any industrialized Western nation.

highest crime-rate of any industrialized Western nation.

highest imprisonment rate of any industrialized Western nation.

corrolation= causation? maybe, maybe not.

but certainly, the evidence shows that more guns does NOT mean more safety.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Freedom. Regardless of cost.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

highest gun-ownership rate of any industrialized Western nation.

How many industrialized Western nations have as lax gun control as we do? Why would you be surprised we would have the highest gun ownership rate? We allow it and people exercise it. Of course it’s going to be higher exercise than nations with no guns or very tight gun control laws. It’s a no brainer, as I said. Duh! What’s next, gravity attracts massive objects?

highest crime-rate of any industrialized Western nation.

We likely have a higher law rate too. What are we throwing into “highest crime rate”? All crime? Gun crime? Violent crime?

highest imprisonment rate of any industrialized Western nation.

An incredibly zealous government willing to lock people away for non-violent crimes, etc. Of course we do. Funny thing, if you look at our incarceration rate as a percentage of our population, it was relatively low up until the 80’s, then it skyrocketed. What happened there? The War on Drugs. Correlation=causation? Maybe maybe not.

corrolation= causation? maybe, maybe not.

Correlation actually doesn’t mean causation. Correlated items can have a cause and effect dynamic, but that cannot be proven through correlation.

but certainly, the evidence shows that more guns does NOT mean more safety.

And? Free has never been, is not, and never will be safe. I’d rather be free than safe.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

...And? Free has never been, is not, and never will be safe. I’d rather be free than safe.

well, in our society, we trade some freedom for some safety.

its how it is..unless you live in the jungle.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

well, in our society, we trade some freedom for some safety.

its how it is..unless you live in the jungle.


“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” — Benjamin Franklin.​
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

well, in our society, we trade some freedom for some safety.

its how it is..unless you live in the jungle.

And part of the freedom we keep is that to keep and bear arms. As such, we're going to have more people owning guns than in countries with more restrictive laws and higher gun crime rates. Comes with the territory. A higher jailed populace doesn't stem from guns, however, it stems from overbearing big brother government.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

And part of the freedom we keep is that to keep and bear arms. As such, we're going to have more people owning guns than in countries with more restrictive laws and higher gun crime rates.....

and yet, the nations with more gun restrictions seem to be much more peaceful.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

and yet, the nations with more gun restrictions seem to be much more peaceful.

Source for that claim?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

This is one of those fallacious dichotomy threads, where you can only pick one or the other.

Tbh it's similar to picking between food or water.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

This is one of those fallacious dichotomy threads, where you can only pick one or the other.

Tbh it's similar to picking between food or water.

Choosing a gun or not is equivalent to choosing food and/or water?
You can't survive without a gun????????
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Choosing a gun or not is equivalent to choosing food and/or water?
You can't survive without a gun????????

What is the use of freedom of speech if you cannot use your guns to protect yourself from an oppressive government?

You can survive without guns, but how well will you survive in a state that takes away your freedom to defend yourself? Will you throw rocks if the government oppresses you?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

What is the use of freedom of speech if you cannot use your guns to protect yourself from an oppressive government?...

some of the most evil & oppresive governments have been taken down without firing a shot or brandeshing a weapon.

Communist Poland. The German Democratic Republic. Communist Czechoslovakia. Communist Hungary.

Not only do more guns NOT ensure a safer society, but they are clearly NOT needed to overthrow tyranny.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

What is the use of freedom of speech if you cannot use your guns to protect yourself from an oppressive government?

You can survive without guns, but how well will you survive in a state that takes away your freedom to defend yourself? Will you throw rocks if the government oppresses you?

Why do you equate the lack of guns with oppressive government?

Is the ONLY thing that keeps America from becoming North Korea the fact that guns are legal here?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

and yet, the nations with more gun restrictions seem to be much more peaceful.

We balance "safety" with freedom. Right?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

We balance "safety" with freedom. Right?

yes, its a delicate balance. you only want to give up so much freedom, for the possibility of safety.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Why do you equate the lack of guns with oppressive government?

Is the ONLY thing that keeps America from becoming North Korea the fact that guns are legal here?

I never said that having no guns means we will have an oppressive government. However, taking guns from citizens typically leads to it. How many dictators do you wager took guns out of the hands of citizens who might try to revolt?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

I never said that having no guns means we will have an oppressive government. However, taking guns from citizens typically leads to it. How many dictators do you wager took guns out of the hands of citizens who might try to revolt?

and some dictators loosen restrictions on guns, how about that?
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Both can be helpful in preserving freedoms. Not having either one of them could significantly weaken the power of the population. Not having both of course, would be the worst. Having both, is ideal. Both should also be limited appropriately to avoid unecessary abuse and harm.

Politics will define appropriately (sadly, but appropriately).
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

yes, its a delicate balance. you only want to give up so much freedom, for the possibility of safety.

Well then, there's the answer to your question. Why do other places seem so much more peaceful? Because we have more freedom.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

care to explain the strange corrolation between America's high gun-ownership rate, its high crime rate, and its high imprisonment rate?


Coincidence

looks like: more guns= more crime= less safe society.

Hogwash and not much substance substantiating connecting them all. ^^

more guns don't = more crime nor = a less safe society.
 
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Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

I don't think I could rate either as more important. They seem to balance each other.
 
Re: Which is more important: Freedom of Speech/Assembly or the Right to Keep & Bear A

Choosing a gun or not is equivalent to choosing food and/or water?
You can't survive without a gun????????

It depends on the circumstances under which you are living. If you shoot your own food (and some of us do), guns are essential.
 
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