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Thread: Absolute Logic

  1. #31
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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    There is logic, emotion, "right", "wrong", and every other preconcieved notion out there.

    I am posting an ordeal where one chooses between absolute logic and emotion. Stick to the story, make your choice, and explain why.
    _

    Let us say you and your mother were lost in the frozen barren woods. You had kindling, a lighter, a knife, rocks, and little hope. Your mother was slowly succumbing to the atmosphere and neither of you had food. (Here we go) Would you kill your mother and survie through cannibalism because absolute logic dictates that you must do so to survive? Or would you let her be because you love her and would rather starve?

    _

    That is all. I'm trying to illuminate why absolute logic cares not for morality or emotions. I am showing why emotions are an important and credible aspect in argumentation. There is no other alternatives in this story. It must be a hard choice with deep reasons.

    What are your thoughts and, more importantly, what would you do?
    You think logic defines a goal, it doesn't, logic can't even define the route to that goal. Why is survival the answer "absolute logic" would give? What makes it the "best" option? I say there is no "best" option that is universal, and the only reason any person finds a "best" option is because of their personal opinions. For example lets go back to the two starving people, lets say you two belong to a tribe and you know the other individual is much more valuable to the group than you are, would logic still dictate its better for you to kill and eat him and not the other way around? And what about his logic, if there is such a thing as absolute logic it must transcend personal opinion, or "personal logic," as it in must be universal? From his perspective he could claim the same absolute logic that he should survive, because from his personal perspective he wants to live.

    I don't think you are talking about anything "absolute" here because the answer to the question changes based on whos asking the question, and the answers often contradict each other, ie like both individuals thinking the other should die for them. For something to be absolute it can't change simply by who's viewing or understanding it, it must be a constant regardless of anything else. This "logic" isn't that.

  2. #32
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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    There is logic, emotion, "right", "wrong", and every other preconcieved notion out there.

    I am posting an ordeal where one chooses between absolute logic and emotion. Stick to the story, make your choice, and explain why.
    _

    Let us say you and your mother were lost in the frozen barren woods. You had kindling, a lighter, a knife, rocks, and little hope. Your mother was slowly succumbing to the atmosphere and neither of you had food. (Here we go) Would you kill your mother and survie through cannibalism because absolute logic dictates that you must do so to survive? Or would you let her be because you love her and would rather starve?

    _

    That is all. I'm trying to illuminate why absolute logic cares not for morality or emotions. I am showing why emotions are an important and credible aspect in argumentation. There is no other alternatives in this story. It must be a hard choice with deep reasons.

    What are your thoughts and, more importantly, what would you do?
    This isn't a hard choice at all. I'd let her be -- do everything I could to save her and we'd sink or swim together. I see you're equating it to emotion or morality. It's neither one for me. It's instinct.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  3. #33
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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    What is logic?

    Can someone obey logic in its purest form?

    Machines have no emotion or morality. They only follow logic. When people strive to be more logical than others, they do not realize that to be utterly logic is to focus on logic alone and leave all else behind.
    Logic is irrefutable evidence that stands by itself, everyone can relate with, no one doubts it, and it is detectable by one or more of our senses.

    Cars run on fuel, elevators go up and down, night follows day, the sun shines, the earth orbits the sun, April follows March, death is inevitable, etc.

    ricksfolly

  4. #34
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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I disagree. I believe that it's instinct to prolong one's life, but I believe that humans are higher creatures that can act upon more than instinct. I believe absolute logic is something someone creates for themselves and follows.
    It's called a conscience.

  5. #35
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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    There is logic, emotion, "right", "wrong", and every other preconcieved notion out there.

    I am posting an ordeal where one chooses between absolute logic and emotion. Stick to the story, make your choice, and explain why.
    _

    Let us say you and your mother were lost in the frozen barren woods. You had kindling, a lighter, a knife, rocks, and little hope. Your mother was slowly succumbing to the atmosphere and neither of you had food. (Here we go) Would you kill your mother and survie through cannibalism because absolute logic dictates that you must do so to survive? Or would you let her be because you love her and would rather starve?

    _

    That is all. I'm trying to illuminate why absolute logic cares not for morality or emotions. I am showing why emotions are an important and credible aspect in argumentation. There is no other alternatives in this story. It must be a hard choice with deep reasons.

    What are your thoughts and, more importantly, what would you do?
    I would scape away the outer bark of the pine trees and feed both my mother and myself the inner bark.
    Make tea type drink out of the needles.

    Would also look for other potential foraging items before I'd let my mother and myself get that far into starvation.

    Definitely more logical to go my route, then let us starve and die to test a philosophical theory.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Actually, given what they had on them; the most "logical" solution is not to kill your mother and eat her. But rather to build a fire, build shelter, and go forage for food. There is greater strength in number and if your mother can be nursed back so that she can then contribute, your collective survival probabilities increase.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Very true. But you bring up an excellent point. Limiting such a situation to two options is inherently irrational. Someone using logic would recognize that there were many alternative options available.
    Precisely.

    The most logical solution, if your intent is to live, is to build shelter, find (and purify) water and forage for food.
    And that's before you starve.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Absolute Logic

    I think there is logic in morality

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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Depends on the parameters of what you consider the logic to be.

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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Logic is irrefutable evidence that stands by itself, everyone can relate with, no one doubts it, and it is detectable by one or more of our senses.

    Cars run on fuel, elevators go up and down, night follows day, the sun shines, the earth orbits the sun, April follows March, death is inevitable, etc.
    There are some people who rely far too much on logic, and all too often use it to explain or dismiss things they can't see, hear, smell, or touch, and sometimes use it to determine conclusions about things, that they don't fully understand. Human logic is a wonderful trait we possess, but there are some things logic simply can't explain, that are never the less, very real.

    Logic can't explain my grandmother springing out of bed at 4am in a panic and crying because she knew something bad had happened to her husband (my grandfather) who at the time was a soldier serving in France during WWII. Then learning several days later that at the exact time she had woke up in that panic, my grandfather had rushed into a burning building to save 2 children, and the building collapsed on him and he had to be hospitalized.

    Logic also can't explain the morning I woke from a dream I had about my other grandfather who lived 3000 miles away in Maryland. A man I hadn't seen, talked to, or even thought about for several years, and someone I had never dreamed about before. In the dream he walked by me in his house, gave me a pat on the head, and said goodbye to me (using my name), and then I watched him walk down the hall away from me. At that point I awoke, scratched my head because that was such a strange dream, looked at the clock which said 7:30, so I got up, got ready and went to work. Shortly after I got home from work that day, my mother called to tell me that my cousin had called her from back east and informed her that my grandfather passed away at his home in Maryland at 9:30 that morning... 9:30am eastern time, just happens to be 7:30am mountain time, the time zone that I lived in.

    Religion is also one of those things that logic simply can't explain, and the reason why such a high percentage of the so called "intellectuals" of our society, who rely almost exclusively on logic to determine what does and doesn't exist, are atheists who see the 100's of millions of people of faith in this world, as nothing but fools... I don't know myself whether there is a God or not, but what I do know, is that the people who believe logic holds all the answers in the universe, are just as big of fools as they believe people of faith to be.

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    Re: Absolute Logic

    Except if you value her life more than yours then it is logical to not kill her.



    For instance if if it was either my mother or 1000 people I didn't know were to die and I could choose to save one, my mother would be the logical choice because I value her infinitely more than I value those 1000 people I don't know or have attachment to.

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