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Bye bye Tulsi

poweRob said:
Progs don't even make up a third of the party. I think you are over exaggerating.
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Could be, but regardless of which side, extreme left or extreme right, they scare the heck out of me.
 
Hypothetical said:
yup she had it coming. no room for sane democrats in the new democratic party.
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A party you have nothing to do with, so why should we listen to your advice?
Are you in the habit of forwarding advice from Democrats to Trumpers?
 
Hypothetical said:
lets see her platform included getting us out of unnecessary foreign wars... what's wrong with that?

admit it, you want her out because she appeared on fox news a couple of times.
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I assure you it's not because she is antiwar.
Have you taken any time to learn about her positions on everything other than antiwar?
 
Craig234 said:
You don't really understand what ideologue is, or that you are one. It shows yet again in your distorted numbers. A third of the country is hardcore trump cult, not 10%. You're not willing to compromise on your demand to compromise, and you wrong demand it when inappropriate. What should be compromised on - corruption? people's right to vote? people being killed for lack of healthcare? I'll trade you voting for healthcare, hey good idea to compromise!



Ideologue refers to people who are dominated by an ideology - including 'centrism' - more than rationality. Where facts and theories are made to fit the held opinions and dogma. Some progressives and corporatists are 'ideologues' and some are not. Bernie's views are not 'extremist', but extremist is a relative word to your views. Our country has become extremist plutocracy.
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That's what you don't understand, Sanders view are extremist. At least compared to the rest of the country. 90% of America is to the right of him. Since you are one of those, I don't expect you to see that. You think it is normal when it isn't.
 
calamity said:
Joe Manchin is a corporate whore, owned by big coal. I like AOC, she is of the people. Ironically, I probably agree with Joe's politics more than that of AOC. But, I prefer an honest pol to a whore anyday.
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I like Bernie but I'll be satisfied if Bernie has a place in the Biden administration. See how that works?
My own politics are probably closer to Sherrod Brown's but I liked Bernie because he was honest and Sherrod would not run for POTUS.
 
Perotista said:
That's what you don't understand, Sanders view are extremist. At least compared to the rest of the country. 90% of America is to the right of him. Since you are one of those, I don't expect you to see that. You think it is normal when it isn't.
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You're not understanding simple English. The country has moved far to the right. That makes Sanders' traditional, centrist views, and FDR's, SEEM like extremist left to people like you. You've bought into the new plutocracy hook, line and sinker so that extremist right policy is 'centrist' to you. $26 trillion in debt, record inequality, instead of people having healthcare and education and money - normal and centrist according to you.
 
Craig234 said:
You're not understanding simple English. The country has moved far to the right. That makes Sanders' traditional, centrist views, and FDR's, SEEM like extremist left to people like you. You've bought into the new plutocracy hook, line and sinker so that extremist right policy is 'centrist' to you. $26 trillion in debt, record inequality, instead of people having healthcare and education and money - normal and centrist according to you.
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There's our disagreement. I consider this country moving way to the left since FDR. With a couple of presidents as status quo, but the rest which continue to move to the far left.

Now I don't have a problem with that, if that is what a majority of Americans want. But I prefer the leftward movement to be fairly slow giving everyone time to adjust. Sanders doesn't want that adjustment time, he wants one huge gigantic leap. With Sander he wants the landing on the moon, Apollo 11 right now without going through Mercury and Gemini.
 
Perotista said:
There's our disagreement. I consider this country moving way to the left since FDR.
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Which again shows you are highly ideological. Remember how I defined it, including twisting facts to fit your ideology.

Now, of COURSE there have been some changes that are improvements for even the poor, as wealth and technology have increased. You can go to the dollar store and get a calculator much more powerful than the computer the moon landing, which you mentioned, used. But in terms of things like share/distribution of wealth, we have gone far right to plutocracy, and it has taken over our democracy. A couple basic facts you say are a move to the left:

usa_historical.png


The period before FDR had high inequality, under Republicans, leading to the great depression. FDR created a new normal from the mid 30's to 1980 of moderate inequality. Since then it has skyrocketed back to new highs. The chart only goes to 2010, showng a blip then, but has only increased since. That is NOT a move to the left. Your Bernie 'moon landing' argument was more ideological dogma that's false. FDR and Bernie have the same goals.

in-1944-president-fdr-proposed-an-economic-bill-of-rights-24728245.png
 
Perotista said:
There's our disagreement. I consider this country moving way to the left since FDR. With a couple of presidents as status quo, but the rest which continue to move to the far left.

Now I don't have a problem with that, if that is what a majority of Americans want. But I prefer the leftward movement to be fairly slow giving everyone time to adjust. Sanders doesn't want that adjustment time, he wants one huge gigantic leap. With Sander he wants the landing on the moon, Apollo 11 right now without going through Mercury and Gemini.
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It's moved right since McCarthy and then Reagan, Bush, Cheney and now Trump. Hell, even Obama and Bill Clinton were Centrists, at best.

This is not an indication of a country moving "Left."
ineq-landing_landing.png


IMO, the canard that we are moving further left is simply propaganda sold to rubes by the ultra-wealthy like the Koch Bros. Don't be a rube.
 
Craig234 said:
Bernie, who began almost as unknown in 2016, against the best-known Democrat who had been running for president for 24 years, with hugely biased media coverage, still got 46% or so of the Democratic vote. The Progressive Caucus is the largest in Congress with about 80 members. Progressives are a very large minority trying to save the party and country with an uphill battle.
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Absolutely.
 
Perotista said:
Could be, but regardless of which side, extreme left or extreme right, they scare the heck out of me.
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They are not extreme. They just want to actually do what the dems say they want but never do,
 
justabubba said:
She will probably do better politically by changing parties
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She doesn't seem that far right to me, is she? To be honest I haven't followed her that closely outside of her foreign policy positions which I often disagree with. However, as a returning war veteran at one time myself, I think I understand her position to be less involved in distent conflicts. While I disagree, as I said, I respect her courage in taking an unpopular position for someone on the left in that regard.

What does Tulsi Gabbard believe? Where the candidate stands on 7 issues | PBS NewsHour
 
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Perotista said:
I like Joe Manchin, he's an old leftover from the days of the yeller and blue dog Democrat and the original big tent Democratic party. Georgia has had some leftovers too in Zell Miller and Sam Nunn. Not anymore though. They've been driven from the democratic party. I do think Joe Biden is going to be the last of the Democratic Moderates to be nominated for president. You can bet your ranch that if Joe Manchin ran for the nomination he'd be laughed and driven off stage if not out of the party. You had another I really liked in Steve Bullock, former governor who is now running for the Montana senate seat. Forced out due to his failure to pass litmus tests.

Let's face, it won't be long when the Democratic Party is full of nothing but far leftist while the GOP is full of nothing more than far rightist. I fear for this nation's health. I liked the Democratic Party when they fought for the working man and not which bathroom a transgender can use. When the Democratic Party was pro defense being a military man all my life, not the peace dove party it has become.
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i see Will Hurd from the opposite direction
he would have made a decent democrat
 
apdst said:
A few months ago there was a thread making her out to be a Left wing hero.
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if i recall correctly, the thread OP was a right wing nut
 
post said:
Inspiring! LOL, She had a "come to krishna moment", last year, when her past stood in the way of something she wanted more than demonizing gay constituents.

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1085959308112809986
View attachment 67290728

BTW, her father's wikipedia talk page, where the history informing how the present article "evolved" is here:
Why the repeated urge to put the most dysfunctional families in the White House ?
Talk:Mike Gabbard - Wikipedia
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that she had the courage to publicly admit being s wrong on that issue showed character; something woefully short in American politics
 
poweRob said:
They are not extreme. They just want to actually do what the dems say they want but never do,
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Perhaps this shows just how far to the left of mainstream some in the Democratic Party has become when extreme becomes the norm. Now I suppose what is extreme and what isn't is all in the eye of the beholder.
 
justabubba said:
i see Will Hurd from the opposite direction
he would have made a decent democrat
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We used to have quite a lot of what I could call centralist or moderate Democrats in congress. The old blue dog types. But over the last 20 years of so all have been primaried out by what I call the Atlanta Liberal or northeastern liberal ideological wise Democrat which in turn lost their seat to a Republican.

This is why I believe there is no room for any blue dog or moderate in the Democratic Party anymore. Of course the same can be said of the Republicans. Although over the last 4 years conservative ideology has been replaced by Trumpism in that party. I don't believe Trump has a political ideology, perhaps that is the reason he has switched parties 7 times. I do find it strange that I'm now being called an ideologue for believing or wanting a middle way. Wishing the two parties could come together and work together, compromise for the good of the country where possible. I think most Americans want that and it is one reason independents are growing while the two major parties are shrinking.
 
Tulsi Gabbard, besides being a babe & surfer

was the only "Peace Candidate" and the only active member of the military candidate.


Rejecting Gabbard was a vote for continued, "Not At War, Wars".


I miss Trump's fulfillment of withdrawing from Afghanistan.


Moi




No :2canadian​
 
Hypothetical said:
yup she had it coming. no room for sane democrats in the new democratic party.
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Maybe it means Hawaiians expected her to vote on impeachment one way or the other, instead of casting literally the only 'present' vote in either Congressional body. That is when she lost me. If you don't like impeachment for tactical or philosophical reasons , then have the guts to vote against impeachment and defend your vote. Totally gutless and transparent move to have it both ways.
 
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