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Think about how much differently Obama (or Bush) would have responded to a global pandemic...

jnug said:
There has never been a National Plan or Strategy. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Either address issues in these posts honestly or put a sock in it.

The second bolded line just about disqualifies you from intelligent discourse on this topic anyway.
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Even when it comes to the elderly, the one demographic that is actually more at risk of Covid than from the flu, it would have been better to do nothing than the crap we did. The response from the feds, states and locals was incredibly horrendous and did far more damage than the virus ever could, it's embarrassing.
 
Thom Paine said:
Thanks for the courteous response. I see the Prez's actions differently.
No, I did not vote for him.
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I'd love for an explanation of how his actions could be viewed in any other way than what I've laid out. Do you believe that there isn't a broad consensus on social distancing and masks among experts? Do you not agree that he has at times purposefully turned mask wearing into political props etc?
 
Thom Paine said:
?? not sure how to respond to that.. don't recall it... but
how is that negligence...
grief! Pelosi was, by action and word, was telling folk to ignore the problem..
was that negligence on her part? I don't think so. Maybe, premature speculation but not negligence.
seems an apt comparison.
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FEB 28
“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
— Donald Trump
 
jnug said:
True in a Jim Jones sort of way. They are truly united band very steadfast and very very sure they are right though shrinking in numbers. When do they start handing out that special mix of Jim Jones Kool-Ade.
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It comes in the form of refusing to 'mask up'.
 
CaughtInThe said:
  • They wouldn't be on Twitter insulting people and giving bad medical/safety advice
  • They would have coordinated with the Governors as the intel flowed
  • They wouldn't have said that COVID is fake or done after 15 cases
  • They would be protecting their staffs/personnel (from the beginning)
  • They wouldn't be pushing to reopen schools (thus saving lives)
  • There would be fewer deaths (like Herman Cain)





Folks, we picked the exact wrong time to elect a spoiled rich guy who has never worked a day of manual labor and cares not about his fellow man.
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Obama dodged a bullet with H1N1

Obama also shut down testing

Biden has fought a pandemic before. It did not go smoothly. - POLITICO

FLASHBACK: Obama administration shut down H1N1 testing, undercutting Biden’s COVID-19 attacks on Trump – DNyuz

Obama failed and got lucky.

Liberal hacks wouldn't care in the least anyways.
 
Trypt said:
You think it's ok to close the country due to a joke of a virus that is milder than the flu for 90% of the population and slightly worse than the flu for the other 10%, one that affects kids not at all? If you want to close the country due to odds, there are plenty of much more serious matters, as you have a higher chance of getting killed in a car crash, you have a higher chance of catching a stray bullet in Chicago, hell, you have a higher chance of drowning even though you never go near water (ok, that last one is in jest).

Learn how to read data, then you can have intelligent conversations, until then, it's just fear mongering. You better never go near a vending machine again, there is a chance it'll fall over and kill you.

As far as calling Trump a libertarian, that is exactly what you're doing. If he was, I'd support him even more, but he's more a conservative nationalist libertarian, a strange but effective combination.
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You do realize that doing nothing would be tantamount to attempting Herd Immunity via transmission in a country of 350M people. The UK tried it with 66M people and quite quickly realized they were headed for disaster. Sweden with its poultry 10M MAY pull it off.

Lets see, we have 155,000 deaths so far. The current numbers for having contracted COVID are 4.5M Americans. Heck I will even toss in the 10x number that CDC suggests might be the real number for Americans having contracted COVID. That would be 45M Americans instead of 4.5M. Even at 45M Americans it would still take another 150M Americans having contracted the virus to reach Herd Immunity of any merit via transmission. We have 155,000 deaths AT LEAST for anywhere from 4.5M to 45M Americans having caught the virus already. You do the math for how many more American would die if we were just relying on Herd Immunity to have any impact on the virus with at least 150M more Americans needing to contract the virus to reach Herd Immunity.

That does not even account for the number of people that will have survived their direct COVID experience only to have been left with a damaged critical life system like lungs or heart or liver or kidneys that will pass from this earth earlier than they should have for that very reason.

None of what I have keyed in this post relieves the Trump Administration of never to this day having a National Plan or Strategy for fighting COVID. Since I can smell a circular argument coming from a mile a way, I thought I better make that clear.
 
Xilnik said:
Worldwide experts were saying to wear masks. The primary reason we were told not to here is because healthcare providers were concerned about an N95 mask shortage if average people started buying those in bulk. Masks do not help citizens if their doctors and nurses are getting COVID-19 due to an N95 shortage because the medical providers spread it to patients more rapidly than day to day contact would.

Most experts were morons not to qualify why they were saying masks were ineffective. I know another concern was also people not being used to them and touching their faces more, spreading the virus via surfaces and other physical contact, but that was less of a concern than the N95 shortage that still ended up happening to some extent. People who have been paying attention to what experts worldwide have said instead of relying solely on US experts and practices have noticed a trend with social distancing, mask wearing, and better hygiene significantly reducing the virus's transmission.
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When people are afraid, when they cannot assimilate contradicting data, they will find a scapegoat; some singularity to blame for their circumstances. That situation combined with vitriolic politics has given us the situation today.
 
less right said:
You may be right. I don't like a lot of the people he's unifying.
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Incredibly, the hate towards 100 million Americans comes through without a second thought. Amazing how liberals have no problem demonizing whole populations, yet I've never heard conservatives talk about liberals as a whole as anything but brainwashed, that's the worst that comes out of their mouth.
 
Trypt said:
Incredibly, the hate towards 100 million Americans comes through without a second thought. Amazing how liberals have no problem demonizing whole populations, yet I've never heard conservatives talk about liberals as a whole as anything but brainwashed, that's the worst that comes out of their mouth.
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This is laughable, mainly because you typed this with a straight face.

"Conservatives" have done nothing but insult liberals for years, and in this very day their own president bashes liberals literally every chances he gets.
 
Thom Paine said:
During my lifetime, one U.S. leader who stood out was a high school graduate haberdasher ...
Pres. Truman .. along with 3-4 others.
I don't see any specific instance of Trump negligence here... during times of confusion and media magnified fear, uniting this country toward anything is akin to herding cats .. cuz ...
it's jus' who we are!
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There has been 12 President's and one Pissantdent in my lifetime; ALL 12 of the Presidents would have United AmeriCANs behind solid policy based on expert advice and counsel. The Pissantdent didn't even try because he was blinded into inaction by how it would affect he reelection.

"I" don't see any specific instance of Trump competence, during his miserable life, especially the last 3 years. Uniting a Nation "during times of confusion and media magnified fear" is what a LEADER does; Dugout Don proved, beyound doubt he is NO Leader, in fact his putting his reelection before the well-being of our nation has proved unarguably he wouldn't make a pimple on a leaders ass.

Thom Paine said:
When people are afraid, when they cannot assimilate contradicting data, they will find a scapegoat; some singularity to blame for their circumstances. That situation combined with vitriolic politics has given us the situation today.
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If tRump would have had his administration develop and implement a plan, ANY PLAN, "contradicting data" would have been minimized, as would have "vitriolic politics"
 
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roughdraft274 said:
I'd love for an explanation of how his actions could be viewed in any other way than what I've laid out. Do you believe that there isn't a broad consensus on social distancing and masks among experts? Do you not agree that he has at times purposefully turned mask wearing into political props etc?
Click to expand...

I attempt to avoid "believe" in evaluating. I certainly don't accept scientific consensus. As to your topics, and considering data from countries and states who did not impose such, it appears logical to "distance" when possible. Masks, while nominally a safety factor in some situations, are mostly to assuage public angst of for the unknown.
 
Irwin Corey said:
There has been 12 President's and one Pissantdent in my lifetime; ALL 12 of the Presidents would have United AmeriCANs behind solid policy based on expert advice and counsel. The Pissantdent didn't even try because he was blinded into inaction by how it would affect he reelection.

"I" don't see any specific instance of Trump competence, during his miserable life, especially the last 3 years. Uniting a Nation "during times of confusion and media magnified fear" is what a LEADER does; Dugout Don proved, beyound doubt he is NO Leader, in fact his putting his reelection before the well-being of our nation has proved unarguably he wouldn't make a pimple on a leaders ass.
Click to expand...

You call it as you see it. I call it as I see it. :peace
 
CaughtInThe said:
  • They wouldn't be on Twitter insulting people and giving bad medical/safety advice
  • They would have coordinated with the Governors as the intel flowed
  • They wouldn't have said that COVID is fake or done after 15 cases
  • They would be protecting their staffs/personnel (from the beginning)
  • They wouldn't be pushing to reopen schools (thus saving lives)
  • There would be fewer deaths (like Herman Cain)





Folks, we picked the exact wrong time to elect a spoiled rich guy who has never worked a day of manual labor and cares not about his fellow man.
Click to expand...

I know you threw Bush's name in there to try to pretend objectivity, but no matter WHAT Bush did, partisans like you would have ripped him.
I'm not sure what Obama would have done . HE doesn't strike me as being all that competent of an executive, although his cult members wouldn't glean that from the sycophant media.
 
jnug said:
You do realize that doing nothing would be tantamount to attempting Herd Immunity via transmission in a country of 350M people. The UK tried it with 66M people and quite quickly realized they were headed for disaster. Sweden with its poultry 10M MAY pull it off.

Lets see, we have 155,000 deaths so far. The current numbers for having contracted COVID are 4.5M Americans. Heck I will even toss in the 10x number that CDC suggests might be the real number for Americans having contracted COVID. That would be 45M Americans instead of 4.5M. Even at 45M Americans it would still take another 150M Americans having contracted the virus to reach Herd Immunity of any merit via transmission. We have 155,000 deaths AT LEAST for anywhere from 4.5M to 45M Americans having caught the virus already. You do the math for how many more American would die if we were just relying on Herd Immunity to have any impact on the virus with at least 150M more Americans needing to contract the virus to reach Herd Immunity.

That does not even account for the number of people that will have survived their direct COVID experience only to have been left with a damaged critical life system like lungs or heart or liver or kidneys that will pass from this earth earlier than they should have for that very reason.

None of what I have keyed in this post relieves the Trump Administration of never to this day having a National Plan or Strategy for fighting COVID. Since I can smell a circular argument coming from a mile a way, I thought I better make that clear.
Click to expand...

i've done the math for them before. they either aren't good at math or simply ignore math.
 
CaughtInThe said:
  • They wouldn't be on Twitter insulting people and giving bad medical/safety advice
  • They would have coordinated with the Governors as the intel flowed
  • They wouldn't have said that COVID is fake or done after 15 cases
  • They would be protecting their staffs/personnel (from the beginning)
  • They wouldn't be pushing to reopen schools (thus saving lives)
  • There would be fewer deaths (like Herman Cain)





Folks, we picked the exact wrong time to elect a spoiled rich guy who has never worked a day of manual labor and cares not about his fellow man.
Click to expand...

As much as I disliked the both of them, I can't think of anyone who would have done a worse job handling the pandemic than Trump. He truly failed to rise to the level of leadership necessary for a President.
 
Trypt said:
Incredibly, the hate towards 100 million Americans comes through without a second thought. Amazing how liberals have no problem demonizing whole populations, yet I've never heard conservatives talk about liberals as a whole as anything but brainwashed, that's the worst that comes out of their mouth.
Click to expand...

How did my "a lot" become 100 million Americans? Hell, only 60+ million Americans voted for him. Like Trump, so many that he's unified have taken to hyperbole.
 
KLATTU said:
I know you threw Bush's name in there to try to pretend objectivity, but no matter WHAT Bush did, partisans like you would have ripped him.
I'm not sure what Obama would have done . HE doesn't strike me as being all that competent of an executive, although his cult members wouldn't glean that from the sycophant media.
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Obama saw us through two pandemics and you probably didn't hear about because people weren't arguing about the solution.
 
less right said:
Obama saw us through two pandemics and you probably didn't hear about because people weren't arguing about the solution.
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They weren't even remotely close to being as bad as this one. And not because of anything Obama did.
 
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