• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

More George Floyd Bodycam Footage

Mr Person said:
Funny how when you people create threads about crime (but only in blue-lean cities) or about black on black crime, you never seem to go digging for contributing factors to blame for the death you're trying to make hay out of.

You never talk about whether the black bank robber accused of shooting a clerk making his escape didn't really kill the clerk because the clerk was obese and his size imparied surgeon's ability to operate quickly enough. Or about how someone who died in a gang shooting was high on drugs that made death more likely in those circumstances. Funny how you only go digging when it's someone you want to defend, like a cop. Then, suddenly contributing factors matter.
Click to expand...

Well yeah. We support the police, just as you support the criminals.
 
beerftw said:
But look at the video, the guy was whacked out of his mind, you can tell the police knew it, when the one drew a gun out when he refused to put both hands up. That is a common tactic because people whacked out on meth, coke,crack, pcp etc are void of logic and reason, and can turn on someone for no reason at all, hence why they had a gun drawn when he would not cooperate.
Click to expand...
The fact that this tactic is common is a huge part of the problem with policing. When confronting some drugged up citizen that turns aggressive, the best response that officers can come up with is to have a gun ready to shoot immediately. That is pathetic. "Protect and Serve" my ass.

Floyd was justifiably terrified of the gun being pointed at him. Add that to the drugs and obviously he will have an irrational freakout. At no point did officers attempt to deescalate the situation. FFS they could just put the guns away, back off slightly, and give him a couple minutes to sit on the curb and calm down. Apparently their time is too valuable for that sort of decency
 
Lutherf said:


Video shows the initial interaction with Floyd, progresses through getting Floyd out of his car and the attempt to get him into the squad then it shows Floyd being taken to the ground.

This is why there were riots not just across America but across the globe.
Click to expand...

After watching this video I'm left with the following impressions:

1. George Floyd was not in an average person's state of normal coherency. I would say he was likely on some kind of drug or combination of drugs. His behavior was very erratic. Of course, from the autopsy we know he was on meth and had enough fentanyl in his system to kill an average man who had never taken it. That combination likely really messed him up emotionally.

2. Because of his erratic emotional state, he was unable to follow police officer directives to put his hands up, put them on the steering wheel, or on his head. It took him many repeated requests to perfrom one of those tasks, and then he'd only keep that position for a few seconds, then he'd release from it.

3. He looked a bit cramped in that car of his.

4. His behavior of not following basic police officer directives most certainly fits the definition of resisting.

5. Because Floyd's behavior was incoherent, erratic, and non-compliant, there's no telling what he might do, so the police officer was understandably forced to draw his weapon in order to protect them all should Floyd suddenly become very violent and to attempt to persuade him to follow directives.

6. The police officers were actually very patient and cordial with Floyd throughout.

7. It took them forever to get him out of his car, even with a gun pointed at him. Clearly he was not emotionally stable.

8. He kept pleading "don't shoot me!" but most people who didn't want to get shot would simply follow directives. Floyd didn't. Again, his erratic incoherent behavior was either drug induced .. or it could have been an act, so the police officers had to take careful measures, such as cuffing and keeping a gun pointed at Floyd.

9. While Floyd was standing by the car he began to say he couldn't breathe. The combination of drugs in his system and the anxiety of being arrested are likely contributors.

10. When asked to get into the police car he then began to complain of claustrophobia. But when he was in his own car he looked cramped and he never said that was giving him claustrophobia. His pattern of resistance appears improvisational.

11. The police officers were very patient with Floyd getting him into the police car.

12. Once Floyd finally gets into the police car it looks like he tries to get out the other side.

13. Clearly this officer cam shows no indications of police brutality or violence.

14. Clearly this officer cam exhibits no racism on the part of the police officers.

Since we don't have Chauvin's video, I'm left to speculate. It is entirely possible that once Chauvin pulled up he, as the veteran, might have been tired of how the perpetrator was successfully evading directives from his fellow inexperienced officers and he was determined to demonstrate to them how to subdue someone who is clearly resisting arrest. I seriously doubt there was any evidence of racism involved in Chauvin's behavior of the knee to Floyd's neck.

The knee to the neck procedure was taught at that police department and was standard procedure, from what I've read, in these kind of situations, and was not something Chauvin invented on the spot.

Since Floyd had been complaining about not being able to breathe when he was just standing by the police car, the other officers may not have considered him saying he can't breathe while lying there to be significant unless they suspected drugs might be causing it.

Chauvin likely continued to keep his knee on Floyd's neck to subdue him, maybe while calling for a medical team, we don't know. Most of this will come out in the trial.

At this point, no evidence of racism or idiosyncratic indiscretion or brutality on the part of any of the officers.

I'm hoping we will one day see Chauvin's officer cam.
 
Last edited:
apdst said:
You're totally ignoring the asian dude and the black dude that are being charged?
Click to expand...

That's not what I said, is it? You do seem to have problems with reading comprehension. Did you graduate from HS at least?
 
Ontologuy said:
5. Because Floyd's behavior was incoherent, erratic, and non-compliant, there's no telling what he might do, so the police officer was understandably forced to draw his weapon in order to protect them all should Floyd suddenly become very violent and to attempt to persuade him to follow directives.
...
8. He kept pleading "don't shoot me!" but most people who didn't want to get shot would simply follow directives. Floyd didn't. Again, his erratic incoherent behavior was either drug induced .. or it could have been an act, so the police officers had to take careful measures, such as cuffing and keeping a gun pointed at Floyd.
Click to expand...
Not just no, but HELL NO. "incoherent, erratic, and non-compliant" behavior are absolutely not good enough reasons to be pointing a gun at someone. The most basic fundamental rule of gun safety is that you never point your gun at something unless you intend to shoot it. Why do you, and apparently many other people, think that cops should be held to a lower standard than everyone else? This is WHY we have people getting shot by cops for no reason. They treat their guns like ****ing restraining mechanisms. Like a deadly threat is the only response when someone is acting unpredictably.

Floyd was desperately BEGGING not to be shot. He was clearly terrified for his life. The cops took an unstable situation and made it 10 times worse. It is absurd that anyone thinks this is a proper and professional behavior.
 
Lutherf said:
Among other things, the video shows WHY Floyd was being restrained. It shows ZERO intent by any of the cops involved to cause any unnecessary harm to anyone involved.

We have the audio transcripts and now we have bodycam video. NONE of this evidence shows the slightest intent by the cops to cause unnecessary harm, much less the death of the suspect.
Click to expand...

You do understand there is another video where Floyd was immobile and the police officer had his knee on Floyd's neck for 7+ minutes, right?

It's crap like this that lets everyone else know that conservatives and Trump supporters are motivated mostly by racism.

Just give it up. Nobody agrees with you except racist Trump supporters who also happen to not want people to vote in free and fair elections.
 
Ontologuy said:
After watching this video I'm left with the following impressions:

1. George Floyd was not in an average person's state of normal coherency. I would say he was likely on some kind of drug or combination of drugs. His behavior was very erratic. Of course, from the autopsy we know he was on meth and had enough fentanyl in his system to kill an average man who had never taken it. That combination likely really messed him up emotionally.

2. Because of his erratic emotional state, he was unable to follow police officer directives to put his hands up, put them on the steering wheel, or on his head. It took him many repeated requests to perfrom one of those tasks, and then he'd only keep that position for a few seconds, then he'd release from it.

3. He looked a bit cramped in that car of his.

4. His behavior of not following basic police officer directives most certainly fits the definition of resisting.

5. Because Floyd's behavior was incoherent, erratic, and non-compliant, there's no telling what he might do, so the police officer was understandably forced to draw his weapon in order to protect them all should Floyd suddenly become very violent and to attempt to persuade him to follow directives.

6. The police officers were actually very patient and cordial with Floyd throughout.

7. It took them forever to get him out of his car, even with a gun pointed at him. Clearly he was not emotionally stable.

8. He kept pleading "don't shoot me!" but most people who didn't want to get shot would simply follow directives. Floyd didn't. Again, his erratic incoherent behavior was either drug induced .. or it could have been an act, so the police officers had to take careful measures, such as cuffing and keeping a gun pointed at Floyd.

9. While Floyd was standing by the car he began to say he couldn't breathe. The combination of drugs in his system and the anxiety of being arrested are likely contributors.

10. When asked to get into the police car he then began to complain of claustrophobia. But when he was in his own car he looked cramped and he never said that was giving him claustrophobia. His pattern of resistance appears improvisational.

11. The police officers were very patient with Floyd getting him into the police car.

12. Once Floyd finally gets into the police car it looks like he tries to get out the other side.

13. Clearly this officer cam shows no indications of police brutality or violence.

14. Clearly this officer cam exhibits no racism on the part of the police officers.

Since we don't have Chauvin's video, I'm left to speculate. It is entirely possible that once Chauvin pulled up he, as the veteran, might have been tired of how the perpetrator was successfully evading directives from his fellow inexperienced officers and he was determined to demonstrate to them how to subdue someone who is clearly resisting arrest. I seriously doubt there was any evidence of racism involved in Chauvin's behavior of the knee to Floyd's neck.

The knee to the neck procedure was taught at that police department and was standard procedure, from what I've read, in these kind of situations, and was not something Chauvin invented on the spot.

Since Floyd had been complaining about not being able to breathe when he was just standing by the police car, the other officers may not have considered him saying he can't breathe while lying there to be significant unless they suspected drugs might be causing it.

Chauvin likely continued to keep his knee on Floyd's neck to subdue him, maybe while calling for a medical team, we don't know. Most of this will come out in the trial.

At this point, no evidence of racism or idiosyncratic indiscretion or brutality on the part of any of the officers.

I'm hoping we will one day see Chauvin's officer cam.
Click to expand...

Floyd was subdued and immobile while the officer who murdered Floyd had his knee on Floyd's neck for 7+ minutes.

That is why Floyd's murderer will ultimately be convicted and sent to prison.
 
Elmo said:
Not just no, but HELL NO. "incoherent, erratic, and non-compliant" behavior are absolutely not good enough reasons to be pointing a gun at someone. The most basic fundamental rule of gun safety is that you never point your gun at something unless you intend to shoot it. Why do you, and apparently many other people, think that cops should be held to a lower standard than everyone else? This is WHY we have people getting shot by cops for no reason. They treat their guns like ****ing restraining mechanisms. Like a deadly threat is the only response when someone is acting unpredictably.

Floyd was desperately BEGGING not to be shot. He was clearly terrified for his life. The cops took an unstable situation and made it 10 times worse. It is absurd that anyone thinks this is a proper and professional behavior.
Click to expand...
I couldn't disagree with you more.
 
Ontologuy said:
You couldn't be more delusionally wrong in everything you're saying here.

But, then again, you're a liberal .. it's kind of expected.:roll:
Click to expand...

Got to love a well reasoned point-by-point response. Too bad the best you can come up with is "Nu-uh".
 
Ontologuy said:
I couldn't disagree with you more.
Click to expand...

What specifically do you disagree with? That you're holding cops to a lower standard, or that it's wrong to do so?
 
W_Heisenberg said:
You do understand there is another video where Floyd was immobile and the police officer had his knee on Floyd's neck for 7+ minutes, right?

It's crap like this that lets everyone else know that conservatives and Trump supporters are motivated mostly by racism.

Just give it up. Nobody agrees with you except racist Trump supporters who also happen to not want people to vote in free and fair elections.
Click to expand...

One cop is charged with murder in this case and the other three are charged with aiding and abetting murder. Murder requires intent to commit harm or cause death during the commission of a felony. This footage indicates that the apprehension of Floyd was conducted appropriately. At worst, the cop that kneeled on Floyd could be accused of using unnecessary force resulting in some level of manslaughter but it WAS NOT murder.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Floyd was subdued and immobile while the officer who murdered Floyd had his knee on Floyd's neck for 7+ minutes.

That is why Floyd's murderer will ultimately be convicted and sent to prison.
Click to expand...
Though the court of public opinion is mixed on the matter, with all BLM cultists saying "racist murderer", those who aren't BLM cultists saying "there's no indication it was racist, and let's wait for the trial".

It's of paramount importance to keep in mind that the knee-to-the-neck maneuver used by Chauvin is standard police practice at that precinct and many others. Officers are trained to utilize that maneuver to subdue non-compliant arrest-resisting suspects.

If Chauvin is guilty of anything, then so likely is the police department .. and since Chauvin was just doing his job as trained, he might be declared innocent, especially considering it was likely Floyd's drug overdoses that greatly contributed to his demise.

Lost in all the focus in what happened "To" Floyd is Floyd's behavior itself, what he did to himself that put him in this position: 1) he committed the crime of purposeful use of counterfeit money which he was suspected of by the police, 2) he resisted arrest in an erratic scary manner, 3) he had over-dosed himself illegally on drugs, 4) no matter how calm and careful the other three officers were, they could not convince Floyd to stop resisting arrest, 5) Floyd was out of control, not in possession of his faculties, and thus had to be physically subdued.

Clearly, I mean clearly, Floyd brought this upon himself. If anyone is most definitely guilty of Floyd's tragically sad accidental death, it's Floyd himself. To blame the police for doing their job is absolutely absurd ..

.. But, we shall see, hopefully, during the trial .. providing, again hopefully, Chauvin doesn't take a sealed plea.

At this point in time, I don't know what to accurately charge Chauvin with .. if anything. What he did get charged with is ludicrous and was done simply to mollify the BLM nutcases, which, as it turned out and should be a lesson to all, Marxists can't be mollified.

Certainly there's no indication of racism as the BLM Marxist nutcases have been screaming for the past two months.

Hopefully it will all come out in the trial what the knee-to-the-neck procedure is, that it is a sanctioned police procedure officers are trained in at the department, why it is used, how it is used, what the officer is responsible for in using it, etc.

But until then, it's best for all parties involved .. and the country as a whole .. that the BLM Marxist cult true believers simply stop their wanton destruction of America.

After all, much of the evidence here indicates that the BLM nutcases made a mistake in perception in the Floyd matter! :shock:
 
Ontologuy said:
Though the court of public opinion is mixed on the matter, with all BLM cultists saying "racist murderer", those who aren't BLM cultists saying "there's no indication it was racist, and let's wait for the trial".

It's of paramount importance to keep in mind that the knee-to-the-neck maneuver used by Chauvin is standard police practice at that precinct and many others. Officers are trained to utilize that maneuver to subdue non-compliant arrest-resisting suspects.

If Chauvin is guilty of anything, then so likely is the police department .. and since Chauvin was just doing his job as trained, he might be declared innocent, especially considering it was likely Floyd's drug overdoses that greatly contributed to his demise.

Lost in all the focus in what happened "To" Floyd is Floyd's behavior itself, what he did to himself that put him in this position: 1) he committed the crime of purposeful use of counterfeit money which he was suspected of by the police, 2) he resisted arrest in an erratic scary manner, 3) he had over-dosed himself illegally on drugs, 4) no matter how calm and careful the other three officers were, they could not convince Floyd to stop resisting arrest, 5) Floyd was out of control, not in possession of his faculties, and thus had to be physically subdued.

Clearly, I mean clearly, Floyd brought this upon himself. If anyone is most definitely guilty of Floyd's tragically sad accidental death, it's Floyd himself. To blame the police for doing their job is absolutely absurd ..

.. But, we shall see, hopefully, during the trial .. providing, again hopefully, Chauvin doesn't take a sealed plea.

At this point in time, I don't know what to accurately charge Chauvin with .. if anything. What he did get charged with is ludicrous and was done simply to mollify the BLM nutcases, which, as it turned out and should be a lesson to all, Marxists can't be mollified.

Certainly there's no indication of racism as the BLM Marxist nutcases have been screaming for the past two months.

Hopefully it will all come out in the trial what the knee-to-the-neck procedure is, that it is a sanctioned police procedure officers are trained in at the department, why it is used, how it is used, what the officer is responsible for in using it, etc.

But until then, it's best for all parties involved .. and the country as a whole .. that the BLM Marxist cult true believers simply stop their wanton destruction of America.

After all, much of the evidence here indicates that the BLM nutcases made a mistake in perception in the Floyd matter! :shock:
Click to expand...

One might even go so far as to suggest that Ellison's decision to overcharge the cop gave some level of legitimacy to the protestor's claims and served to inflame an already agitated sector of the public thus spurring WORLDWIDE acts of violence.
 
Lutherf said:
One might even go so far as to suggest that Ellison's decision to overcharge the cop gave some level of legitimacy to the protestor's claims and served to inflame an already agitated sector of the public thus spurring WORLDWIDE acts of violence.
Click to expand...
Yes, this makes sense -- once the mollifying overcharge was issued to Chauvin, many BLM cultists did their judge, jury, and executioner thing and simply declared being charged equated to being guilty ..

.. And yes, the resultant nuclear explosion of Marxist cultist faux "racist outrage" reverberated worldwide.

Again, another lesson for all: never attempt to mollify a segment of the population by overcharging a suspect -- it is likely to have catastrophically adverse reactions.
 
Elmo said:
What specifically do you disagree with? That you're holding cops to a lower standard, or that it's wrong to do so?
Click to expand...
You initially responded to my post, the post that simply states what I think occurred that you disagree with. So there's simply no more to be said by me in specific response to you.

That you think my perspective is "holding cops to a lower standard" is simply and obviously false, and clearly I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.
 
Ontologuy said:
Yes, this makes sense -- once the mollifying overcharge was issued to Chauvin, many BLM cultists did their judge, jury, and executioner thing and simply declared being charged equated to being guilty ..

.. And yes, the resultant nuclear explosion of Marxist cultist faux "racist outrage" reverberated worldwide.

Again, another lesson for all: never attempt to mollify a segment of the population by overcharging a suspect -- it is likely to have catastrophically adverse reactions.
Click to expand...

Right. Handing pitchforks and torches to the mob is ALWAYS a bad idea and it's why we have a system of Constitutional justice in this nation, not a system of Social justice.
 
Ontologuy said:
It's of paramount importance to keep in mind that the knee-to-the-neck maneuver used by Chauvin is standard police practice at that precinct and many others. Officers are trained to utilize that maneuver to subdue non-compliant arrest-resisting suspects.
Click to expand...

Why should anyone take you seriously?

The move used to restrain George Floyd is discouraged by most police. Here's why

Law enforcement experts denounce Minneapolis police use of force in George Floyd's death - StarTribune.com

The 'knee-to-neck' move used to restrain George Floyd isn't encouraged by most police. Here's why some law enforcement experts say it's a dangerous maneuver | Nation | stltoday.com

Maneuver police used on George Floyd largely banned in Minnesota - Insider

Unlike Minneapolis, Chicago Police Policy Considers Neck Pressure Applied To George Floyd ‘Deadly Force’ – CBS Chicago

George Floyd Death: How the Knee-on-Neck Hold Resulted in Tragedy - The New York Times

George Floyd death: Experts say knee-to-neck restraint is dangerous, but Minneapolis allows it

'Knee to neck' is not a tactic for officers: former Delta PD chief
 
Ontologuy said:
You initially responded to my post, the post that simply states what I think occurred that you disagree with. So there's simply no more to be said by me in specific response to you.

That you think my perspective is "holding cops to a lower standard" is simply and obviously false, and clearly I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.
Click to expand...

1. Average gun owners follow the basic safety standard that you only point your gun at a target that you intend to shoot.
2. Police officers pointed their guns at George Floyd for an extended period of time.
3. There was never a reason or need to shoot him, as evidenced by the fact that he was not shot.
4. Therefore, police officers pointed their guns at a target without intent to actually shoot it. They used it as a restraining tactic to terrorize him and force compliance.
5. Officers followed a lower standard of gun safety than everyone else.

I've numbered the chain of logic for you, to make it as easy as possible. I don't want to make you waste time debating on a debate forum. If #5 is "simply and obviously false", then surely you can point out the mistake. If you're short on time, you can answer this with a single number
 
Lutherf said:
One cop is charged with murder in this case and the other three are charged with aiding and abetting murder. Murder requires intent to commit harm or cause death during the commission of a felony. This footage indicates that the apprehension of Floyd was conducted appropriately. At worst, the cop that kneeled on Floyd could be accused of using unnecessary force resulting in some level of manslaughter but it WAS NOT murder.
Click to expand...

7+ mins is too long to place your knee on someone's neck and have it be just "some level of manslaughter", but whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Why should anyone take you seriously?

The move used to restrain George Floyd is discouraged by most police. Here's why

Law enforcement experts denounce Minneapolis police use of force in George Floyd's death - StarTribune.com

The 'knee-to-neck' move used to restrain George Floyd isn't encouraged by most police. Here's why some law enforcement experts say it's a dangerous maneuver | Nation | stltoday.com

Maneuver police used on George Floyd largely banned in Minnesota - Insider

Unlike Minneapolis, Chicago Police Policy Considers Neck Pressure Applied To George Floyd ‘Deadly Force’ – CBS Chicago

George Floyd Death: How the Knee-on-Neck Hold Resulted in Tragedy - The New York Times

George Floyd death: Experts say knee-to-neck restraint is dangerous, but Minneapolis allows it

'Knee to neck' is not a tactic for officers: former Delta PD chief
Click to expand...
The only thing your links to "mainstream" media extreme hack articles state that's true is that Chauvin's police department allowed the procedure and trains their officers on how to use it. :shock:

Your social justice warrior court is now closed.

We now wait for the real American court of justice to weigh in on the matter.
 
Elmo said:
1. Average gun owners follow the basic safety standard that you only point your gun at a target that you intend to shoot.
2. Police officers pointed their guns at George Floyd for an extended period of time.
3. There was never a reason or need to shoot him, as evidenced by the fact that he was not shot.
4. Therefore, police officers pointed their guns at a target without intent to actually shoot it. They used it as a restraining tactic to terrorize him and force compliance.
5. Officers followed a lower standard of gun safety than everyone else.

I've numbered the chain of logic for you, to make it as easy as possible. I don't want to make you waste time debating on a debate forum. If #5 is "simply and obviously false", then surely you can point out the mistake. If you're short on time, you can answer this with a single number
Click to expand...
You are in obvious error about the intent of the officers.

They most certainly did intend to shoot Floyd .. had it become necessary.

It is standard and acceptable police procedure to draw weapons to both discourage a perpetrator and to be ready to shoot in a split second if the situation deems it may be necessary.

How you could be so wrong about all this, ludicrously trying to compare police procedure with firearms to the average Joe at the firing range, is pure nonsense.

Since your premises are false .. you have no "logic" in your conclusions. :cool:
 
Cardinal said:
White people aren't remotely this terrified by a traffic stop. I wonder why that is. Oh, that's right, we don't tend to die when it happens.
Click to expand...

This is so not true. I knowof plenty of whites who have cop issues..been treated unfairly myself
 
Cardinal said:
White people aren't remotely this terrified by a traffic stop. I wonder why that is. Oh, that's right, we don't tend to die when it happens.
Click to expand...

more white people are killed by police than black people are.
 
I couldn't hear what Floyd or the cops were saying

But it was very sad when Floyd seemed to be in despair and fell on the steering wheel... I know he was supposed to be a drug addict but maybe he was trying to straighten out his life...? God knows..heard many takes on this story.
Don't know what to believe..until a jury decides..if then. It's possible both Floyd and the cops were wrong
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom