• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Alexander Vindman compares Trump administration to 'authoritarian regime' in scathing op-ed

bubbabgone said:
If you don't agree with decisions made by the guy responsible for making them and you're that upset you can quit since you ain't the guy who makes decisions.
Or ... you can make your opinions known to the guy in charge but you still ain't the guy in charge.
What he did was self-serving.
Click to expand...
What Vindman did was follow proper protocol.
 
bubbabgone said:
If the Ukraine call was still classified, and Vindman leaked the contents to a couple of people (which he admitted and one of them might have been the WB), then there you go.
Click to expand...

you forgot to provide a cite which tells us your assertion is a legitimate one
 
bubbabgone said:
If the Ukraine call was still classified, and Vindman leaked the contents to a couple of people (which he admitted and one of them might have been the WB), then there you go.
Click to expand...
Nope. Get your facts straight, bubba.

“Donald Trump defended removing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from the White House’s National Security Council by claiming that Vindman’s “superior … publicly stated that Vindman had problems with judgement, adhering to the chain of command and leaking information.” But the latter claim leaves a false impression, and the others omit important context.

Trump is referring to Timothy Morrison, who was the NSC’s senior director for Russia and Europe, and Vindman’s direct supervisor for a little more than three months in 2019, from mid-July through the end of October.

Here is a summary of what Morrison did and didn’t say about Vindman, who, like Morrison, listened in on Trump’s July 25 call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky and testified in the House impeachment inquiry:

- Morrison did not say that Vindman “had problems with … leaking information,” as Trump claimed. Morrison said that some of his colleagues expressed to him that Vindman may have leaked information, but Morrison never said that he believed those claims.

- Morrison did say that he and other officials had concerns about Vindman’s judgment. But Fiona Hill, who was Vindman’s supervisor for a year before Morrison, said she didn’t question his “overall judgment” or “his substantive expertise.” In fact, Hill wrote that Vindman displayed “excellent judgment,” according to a performance review that Vindman quoted from during public testimony.

- Morrison also said that Vindman did not follow the chain of command when Vindman reported his concerns about the Trump-Zelensky phone call to NSC’s legal counsel. He said he would have preferred that Vindman came to him first, but he also said that that wasn’t unusual because things worked differently under Hill, whom Morrison replaced at the NSC.
Fact-Checking Trump's Defense for Removing Vindman - FactCheck.org
 
bubbabgone said:
You think the Colonel has made himself aware that he's doesn't create and implement foreign policy?
That's what got him in trouble in the first place and it wasn't his duty.
That and very likely leaking and other violations.
Let's face it, he was one of the holdovers determined to cause problems.
Click to expand...

It was his duty to report on criminal activity.

Let's face it: you support and relish treason against the U.S.
 
I’d bet the house Vindman, if investigated by a SC, would end up at Gitmo along with a bunch of other traitors.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Nope. Get your facts straight, bubba.

“Donald Trump defended removing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from the White House’s National Security Council by claiming that Vindman’s “superior … publicly stated that Vindman had problems with judgement, adhering to the chain of command and leaking information.” But the latter claim leaves a false impression, and the others omit important context.

Trump is referring to Timothy Morrison, who was the NSC’s senior director for Russia and Europe, and Vindman’s direct supervisor for a little more than three months in 2019, from mid-July through the end of October.

Here is a summary of what Morrison did and didn’t say about Vindman, who, like Morrison, listened in on Trump’s July 25 call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky and testified in the House impeachment inquiry:

- Morrison did not say that Vindman “had problems with … leaking information,” as Trump claimed. Morrison said that some of his colleagues expressed to him that Vindman may have leaked information, but Morrison never said that he believed those claims.

- Morrison did say that he and other officials had concerns about Vindman’s judgment. But Fiona Hill, who was Vindman’s supervisor for a year before Morrison, said she didn’t question his “overall judgment” or “his substantive expertise.” In fact, Hill wrote that Vindman displayed “excellent judgment,” according to a performance review that Vindman quoted from during public testimony.

- Morrison also said that Vindman did not follow the chain of command when Vindman reported his concerns about the Trump-Zelensky phone call to NSC’s legal counsel. He said he would have preferred that Vindman came to him first, but he also said that that wasn’t unusual because things worked differently under Hill, whom Morrison replaced at the NSC.
Fact-Checking Trump's Defense for Removing Vindman - FactCheck.org
Click to expand...

LOL.

You’ll find that facts and bubba are not compatable.
 
bubbabgone said:
Third, he said the call "transcript" was accurate. He just didn't like it. Isn't everyone in the NSC encouraged to implement their own foreign policy? No? Just him? Or just everyone in this Administration.
Click to expand...
“According to Vindman, a “very accurate” (but not verbatim) transcript memo, called a TELCON, was produced according to normal process”.

* Big difference between accurate and verbatim.

“Vindman discussed two substantive edits he suggested during this process that were not ultimately adopted. In both cases, ellipses were used instead. The first was as follows with Vindman’s proposed edits to Trump’s comments in brackets: “Whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it. [There are recordings.] It sounds horrible to me.”

He indicated that he believed “recordings” referred to a speech Biden had given about his anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine.

The next proposed edit was to Zelensky’s response to Trump’s above statement. Zelensky said he was going to appoint a new prosecutor general and, again with Vindman’s proposed edit in brackets, “He or she will look into the situation, specifically to [Burisma] that you mentioned.” In the final TELCOM, instead of “Burisma” it reads “the company.” Vindman later added that this was particularly significant because, in a general discussion about corruption, Zelensky would “not necessarily know anything” about Burisma. So the fact that he mentioned Burisma suggested that Zelensky had been “prepped” to speak about it during the call.”
Summary of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman’s Deposition Testimony - Lawfare
 
bubbabgone said:
You think the Colonel has made himself aware that he's doesn't create and implement foreign policy?
That's what got him in trouble in the first place and it wasn't his duty.
That and very likely leaking and other violations.
Let's face it, he was one of the holdovers determined to cause problems.
Click to expand...

I can hear you now claiming you were only following orders.
 
He's spot on.
 
HennyBogan said:
I’d bet the house Vindman, if investigated by a SC, would end up at Gitmo along with a bunch of other traitors.
Click to expand...

yea, i'd take that bet!
 
justabubba said:
yea, i'd take that bet!
Click to expand...

You’d lose, a SC with all phone records, emails and records of meetings of all the traitors would expose them easily. Remember they had every single communication including phone calls, emails et al of Trump / and everyone on his campaign and didn’t get Trump at all.
Vindman and co ~ no ****ing chance
 
bubbabgone said:
If the Ukraine call was still classified, and Vindman leaked the contents to a couple of people (which he admitted and one of them might have been the WB), then there you go.
Click to expand...

Vidman took his concerns directly up the chain of command. I've never seen any actual evidence that he "leaked" anything outside of the chain of command, and the government lawyers to whom he was directed to report.

Edit: Never mind; Post #28 explained this far better than I ever could.
 
HennyBogan said:
You’d lose, a SC with all phone records, emails and records of meetings of all the traitors would expose them easily. Remember they had every single communication including phone calls, emails et al of Trump / and everyone on his campaign and didn’t get Trump at all.
Vindman and co ~ no ****ing chance
Click to expand...

well, since you have offered nothing except an unsubstantiated opinion, i would still accept your wager
 
Fletch said:
And you havent backed up your moronic assertions about authoritarians posed to you in post #16. I guess thats how you roll.
Click to expand...
Moronic is asserting that Trump isn’t an authoritarian. Only idiot Trumpsters in denial would attempt asserting otherwise.

You want proof of Trump’s authoritarian mentality/efforts? Google “Trump authoritarian” and you will be rewarded with a plethora of links to articles outlining Trump’s authoritarian comments and efforts.
 
veritas1 said:
What freedom of yours has Trump infringed upon? Please be specific.
Click to expand...

and THEN compare to that to the LIST of ones the left intends to "take care of", such as speech and 2nd amendment to name the foremost ones.
 
justabubba said:
you forgot to provide a cite which tells us your assertion is a legitimate one
Click to expand...

“Lietenant Colonel Vindman, did you discuss the July 25 phone call with anyone outside the White House on July 25 or the 26 and if so, with whom?” Republican Rep. Devin Nunes of California inquired.
“Yes. I did,” Vindman answered in the affirmative.
When pressed on who Vindman spoke with about the call, Vindman said he spoke with two individuals not in the White House, including Deputy Assistant Secretary George Kent and another individual in the intelligence community that Vindman refused to name before being cut off by Democratic Chairman Adam Schiff.

Vindman Just Admitted To Leaking To The Anti-Trump Whistleblower
Click to expand...

Can you guess, or remember, the context?
 
justabubba said:
i have not seen a cite about such leakage. please share a reference showing the inappropriate release of government information
Click to expand...

From the hearing transcript:

“Lietenant Colonel Vindman, did you discuss the July 25 phone call with anyone outside the White House on July 25 or the 26 and if so, with whom?” Republican Rep. Devin Nunes of California inquired.


“Yes. I did,” Vindman answered in the affirmative"
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Nope. Get your facts straight, bubba.

“Donald Trump defended removing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from the White House’s National Security Council by claiming that Vindman’s “superior … publicly stated that Vindman had problems with judgement, adhering to the chain of command and leaking information.” But the latter claim leaves a false impression, and the others omit important context.

Trump is referring to Timothy Morrison, who was the NSC’s senior director for Russia and Europe, and Vindman’s direct supervisor for a little more than three months in 2019, from mid-July through the end of October.

Here is a summary of what Morrison did and didn’t say about Vindman, who, like Morrison, listened in on Trump’s July 25 call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky and testified in the House impeachment inquiry:

- Morrison did not say that Vindman “had problems with … leaking information,” as Trump claimed. Morrison said that some of his colleagues expressed to him that Vindman may have leaked information, but Morrison never said that he believed those claims.

- Morrison did say that he and other officials had concerns about Vindman’s judgment. But Fiona Hill, who was Vindman’s supervisor for a year before Morrison, said she didn’t question his “overall judgment” or “his substantive expertise.” In fact, Hill wrote that Vindman displayed “excellent judgment,” according to a performance review that Vindman quoted from during public testimony.

- Morrison also said that Vindman did not follow the chain of command when Vindman reported his concerns about the Trump-Zelensky phone call to NSC’s legal counsel. He said he would have preferred that Vindman came to him first, but he also said that that wasn’t unusual because things worked differently under Hill, whom Morrison replaced at the NSC.
Fact-Checking Trump's Defense for Removing Vindman - FactCheck.org
Click to expand...

And what exactly does that tell you about whether Vindman leaked details about the Ukraine call ... that is, after all, what I was talking about and what Vindman, after all, admitted doing under oath..
 
RaleBulgarian said:
“According to Vindman, a “very accurate” (but not verbatim) transcript memo, called a TELCON, was produced according to normal process”.

* Big difference between accurate and verbatim.

“Vindman discussed two substantive edits he suggested during this process that were not ultimately adopted. In both cases, ellipses were used instead. The first was as follows with Vindman’s proposed edits to Trump’s comments in brackets: “Whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it. [There are recordings.] It sounds horrible to me.”

He indicated that he believed “recordings” referred to a speech Biden had given about his anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine.

The next proposed edit was to Zelensky’s response to Trump’s above statement. Zelensky said he was going to appoint a new prosecutor general and, again with Vindman’s proposed edit in brackets, “He or she will look into the situation, specifically to [Burisma] that you mentioned.” In the final TELCOM, instead of “Burisma” it reads “the company.” Vindman later added that this was particularly significant because, in a general discussion about corruption, Zelensky would “not necessarily know anything” about Burisma. So the fact that he mentioned Burisma suggested that Zelensky had been “prepped” to speak about it during the call.”
Summary of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman’s Deposition Testimony - Lawfare
Click to expand...

You've got nowhere to go with this. He said not making his suggested changes was no big deal.
I went through this a lot at the time and the phone call with or without Vindman's suggested edits didn't raise alarms except maybe to someone who needed to find alarms.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom