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The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guys!

Craig234 said:
He fought to give the country to plutocrat McCain and the female trump, Palin. I will never view him as anything other than a huge wrongdoer, even if it's good to see him have some limits and oppose trump. Sorry, he's a bad guy, which might be hidden because the enemy of our enemy looks like a friend.



That's not the Democrats I see. If they were, they'd have picked Bernie, both elections. Instead, most Democrats seem to be overly loyalty to party corporatists, too easily won over by slick marketing. They're just more better about those things than Republicans.
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I'm not a fan of what Schmidt has done in the past, but there is no denying his intellect. He does a better job of criticizing Trump and the Republican Party than any left-leaning commentator that I've seen, except for potentially Bill Maher and Keith Olbermann. Lawrence O' Donnell is also very good. Thom Hartmann is a very good liberal commentator on the radio, as well.

I don't think most Democratic voters are won over by slick marketing, because the Democrats suck at marketing. In fact, the Democrats suck at campaigning, period. Many Democratic candidates are bought off by corporate donations, no question.

I'm a Bernie supporter as you know, but he just doesn't have the personality to ever win the Democratic nomination. He's a notorious loner who didn't do enough to reach out to African American leaders, such as James Clyburn in South Carolina. I was surprised to hear that he never even talked to Clyburn about his endorsement. Even if you don't get key endorsements, you still have to put in the work. Sanders is not willing to do that. At some point, even the great leaders of historic movements have to compromise sometimes for the greater good.
 
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Kerry Won Ohio said:
I'm a Bernie supporter as you know, but he just doesn't have the personality to ever win the Democratic nomination. He's a notorious loner who didn't do enough to reach out to African American leaders, such as James Clyburn in South Carolina. I was surprised to hear that he never even talked to Clyburn about his endorsement. Even if you don't get key endorsements, you still have to put in the work. Sanders is not willing to do that. At some point, even the great leaders of historic movements have to compromise sometimes for the greater good.
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I don't think that's a justified criticism. Bernice bent over backwards and more to get all the black votes he could, but I think it's a misguided criticism to say he was wrong not to ask someone who was locked up for the corporatist side. Should Bernie have asked Melania trump and George W. Bush too just in case? I think he knows what he was doing.

The glass half empty is criticizing Bernie's 'personality'. The glass half full is that he did INCREDIBLY well, far better than any other progressive candidate arguably ever. So I have a little humility at Monday morning quarterback. Even the guy on Mount Rushmore, Teddy, lost when he ran as a progressive. Bernie has almost single-handedly made progressive politics much stronger than it has been for decades.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
The current Lincoln Project attacks ads against Trump are the most brilliant and scathing that I've ever seen. They are beating the leaving **** out of Trump and driving him even more nuts in the process. Trump simply can't handle anyone beating him to a pulp at his own game.

Democrats, this is how you attack a corrupt mentally ill racist and traitor like Donald J. Trump. It's a shame that Republican Never Trumpers political operatives do a better job of attacking Trump than Democrats do. Being nice and "above the fray" ain't going to cut it anymore when you have an authoritarian dickhead in the White House.
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Absolutely agree! The Democrats could learn a think or two about messaging from the Republicans.
 
Chomsky said:
You know, every time I think I'm a Liberal, discussions like this - often with you - make me wonder otherwise. But that's fine.
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Liberal is a broad word. The poisonous James Carville, and I'm not comparing you with him, would say he's a 'liberal'. George W. Bush tried to privatize Social Security, illegally wiretapped the country, tortured people, passed a tax bill redistributing trillions of borrowed dollars to the rich, and a lot more - that is who the Steve Schmidt Republican was, even if neither he nor Bush like trump. Those are not liberal policies.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
Yes, but it still confounds me that Democrats are not better at this stuff. They've got plenty of material to work with in a train wreck like Trump.

Steve Schmidt is brilliant, too bad he was helping an idiot like Bush get elected 15 - 20 years ago.
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Schimidt is one of the most knowledgeable and best orators I've seen.
 
Craig234 said:
I don't think that's a justified criticism. Bernice bent over backwards and more to get all the black votes he could, but I think it's a misguided criticism to say he was wrong not to ask someone who was locked up for the corporatist side. Should Bernie have asked Melania trump and George W. Bush too just in case? I think he knows what he was doing.

The glass half empty is criticizing Bernie's 'personality'. The glass half full is that he did INCREDIBLY well, far better than any other progressive candidate arguably ever. So I have a little humility at Monday morning quarterback. Even the guy on Mount Rushmore, Teddy, lost when he ran as a progressive. Bernie has almost single-handedly made progressive politics much stronger than it has been for decades.
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I think Bernie ran at the wrong times, tbh. I don't think Americans as a whole want a "change" candidate right now. Trump ran on "change", and we see what a cluster*ck that is.

I will say this, Bernie has pushed the party, and even Biden, further to the left than anyone ever thought. If Biden is elected with s Democratic congress, there's a decent possibility you could get some serious progressive policies passed. After the way Trump and the GOP have acted since being in power, I don't think Democrats are going to "shy away", so to speak, any longer.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
I'm not a fan of what Schmidt has done in the past, but there is no denying his intellect.
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When there are big corrupt movements, they often gather people who drink the kool-aid or go along for the ride, and since they're not in on the con, they often come to opposite it when it's clear to them. That's how Schmidt strikes me, someone who 'got took', had his ideas and principles, and when the party just trashed them, he objected. Bit the ones he did stand for were pretty bad, supporting plutocracy. Trying to replace Obama/Biden with Palin, really?
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
Yes, but it still confounds me that Democrats are not better at this stuff. They've got plenty of material to work with in a train wreck like Trump.

Steve Schmidt is brilliant, too bad he was helping an idiot like Bush get elected 15 - 20 years ago.
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I don't think it's that Democrats are not capable of generating dirty, underhanded, and tactless rhetoric, it's just that decorum is their Achille's heel.

Republicans love to appeal to others by acting as if they are loud bullies in a kindergarten school yard fight. Unfortunately, it seems to appeal to many, but it's not really the Democrat way.
 
Puigb said:
I think Bernie ran at the wrong times, tbh. I don't think Americans as a whole want a "change" candidate right now. Trump ran on "change", and we see what a cluster*ck that is.

I will say this, Bernie has pushed the party, and even Biden, further to the left than anyone ever thought. If Biden is elected with s Democratic congress, there's a decent possibility you could get some serious progressive policies passed. After the way Trump and the GOP have acted since being in power, I don't think Democrats are going to "shy away", so to speak, any longer.
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I think Bernie ran at the right time in 2016, but an unknown curmudgeon progressive who wouldn't take big money running against the most famous Democrat in the country who had really been running for 24 years, was all but an insanely impossible thing, though he did remarkably.

In 2020, I agree with you that despite Bernie basically winning the first 3 or 4 primaries, too many Democrats wanted to 'play it safe' as they thought and didn't vote for the person with the best policies. They wanted 'the guy who had been VP', the guy who is closest to bringing Obama back, and that's what they got.
 
Craig234 said:
I think Bernie ran at the right time in 2016, but an unknown curmudgeon progressive who wouldn't take big money running against the most famous Democrat in the country who had really been running for 24 years, was all but an insanely impossible thing, though he did remarkably.

In 2020, I agree with you that despite Bernie basically winning the first 3 or 4 primaries, too many Democrats wanted to 'play it safe' as they thought and didn't vote for the person with the best policies. They wanted 'the guy who had been VP', the guy who is closest to bringing Obama back, and that's what they got.
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It was tough for any Democrat to win in 2016 because of party fatigue. The Republicans almost lost that election because they nominated the biggest idiot in the world that only someone as intensely disliked as Clinton could lose too.
 
Craig234 said:
I don't think that's a justified criticism. Bernice bent over backwards and more to get all the black votes he could, but I think it's a misguided criticism to say he was wrong not to ask someone who was locked up for the corporatist side. Should Bernie have asked Melania trump and George W. Bush too just in case? I think he knows what he was doing.

The glass half empty is criticizing Bernie's 'personality'. The glass half full is that he did INCREDIBLY well, far better than any other progressive candidate arguably ever. So I have a little humility at Monday morning quarterback. Even the guy on Mount Rushmore, Teddy, lost when he ran as a progressive. Bernie has almost single-handedly made progressive politics much stronger than it has been for decades.
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How do you know Sanders "bent over backwards" to get all the black votes he could? How much have you really studied this? I've read about the Sanders campaign and there was a lot of in-fighting among Sanders' staff in South Carolina, because much of his staff didn't feel they were doing enough outreach to African Americans.

If you aren't even willing to have a serious conversation with James Clyburn about an endorsement, the most powerful African American politician in South Carolina, then I'm sorry but you are NOT doing everything that you need to do to win.
 
Puigb said:
It was tough for any Democrat to win in 2016 because of party fatigue. The Republicans almost lost that election because they nominated the biggest idiot in the world that only someone as intensely disliked as Clinton could lose too.
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Bernie would likely have destroyed trump if Democrats had the sense to nominate him, but they went with 'party mentality'. Most of the people who voted for trump as 'change' or 'outsider' or anti-Hillary would have voted for Bernie IMO.
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
How do you know Sanders "bent over backwards" to get all the black votes he could? How much have you really studied this? I've read about the Sanders campaign and there was a lot of in-fighting among Sanders' staff in South Carolina, because much of his staff didn't feel they were doing enough outreach to African Americans.

If you aren't even willing to have a serious conversation with James Clyburn about an endorsement, the most powerful African American politician in South Carolina, then I'm sorry but you are NOT doing everything that you need to do to win.
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I think Bernie knows better than you or I the value in talking to Clyburn. I've studied it enough to have seen hours about Bernie making pretty extreme efforts, with all kinds of black people who support progressive values endorsing him.

For just one example, I watched him having breakfast with Jessie Jackson on this topic, as I recall. How much have you studied it?
 
Craig234 said:
I think Bernie knows better than you or I the value in talking to Clyburn. I've studied it enough to have seen hours about Bernie making pretty extreme efforts, with all kinds of black people who support progressive values endorsing him.

For just one example, I watched him having breakfast with Jessie Jackson on this topic, as I recall. How much have you studied it?
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Apparently Sanders didn't know the value of talking to Clyburn. Since he got crushed in S. Carolina.

I studied it enough to know that Jackson endorsed Sanders AFTER the disaster in South Carolina and on Super Tuesday. Too little way too late at that point.

Why didn't Sanders get Jackson's endorsement a few days earlier, before Super Tuesday? Perhaps that would have actually made a difference.

I love Bernie Sanders, but he's not infallible. His campaign made serious mistakes. Jackson's endorsement after his victory in Nevada may have actually put Sanders over the top.
 
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Puigb said:
I think Bernie ran at the wrong times, tbh. I don't think Americans as a whole want a "change" candidate right now. Trump ran on "change", and we see what a cluster*ck that is.

I will say this, Bernie has pushed the party, and even Biden, further to the left than anyone ever thought. If Biden is elected with s Democratic congress, there's a decent possibility you could get some serious progressive policies passed. After the way Trump and the GOP have acted since being in power, I don't think Democrats are going to "shy away", so to speak, any longer.
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Well said. Democrats have been way too timid in the past when it comes to pushing progressive policies. I have a feeling those days are over. The abysmal failure of Trump and the Repug Party during the past 4 years should embolden Democrats. I think most Americans finally see the truth about the Repug Party -- they simply don't believe in government and they have actively done all they can to sabotage our government.
 
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lurchadams said:
Schimidt is one of the most knowledgeable and best orators I've seen.
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He's kinda' a Republican Laura Coats. Or, maybe she's a Dem Steve Schmidt! She's newer on the scene.
 
Craig234 said:
Bernie would likely have destroyed trump if Democrats had the sense to nominate him, but they went with 'party mentality'. Most of the people who voted for trump as 'change' or 'outsider' or anti-Hillary would have voted for Bernie IMO.
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I think Sanders would have defeated Trump by 5% - 6%. Not a blowout, but a significant victory. Sadly, a lot of men didn't vote for Clinton simply because she is a woman.
 
Craig234 said:
When there are big corrupt movements, they often gather people who drink the kool-aid or go along for the ride, and since they're not in on the con, they often come to opposite it when it's clear to them. That's how Schmidt strikes me, someone who 'got took', had his ideas and principles, and when the party just trashed them, he objected. Bit the ones he did stand for were pretty bad, supporting plutocracy. Trying to replace Obama/Biden with Palin, really?
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Schmidt is not infallible, just like Sanders is not infallible. I'm sure Schmidt will regret the Palin decision until the day he dies.

Schmidt had no idea how stupid the woman was, and he has owned that mistake. He assumed, like most Americans back in 2008, that a governor of any state had at least a 12th grade education. Obviously, that wasn't true in Palin's case. It's easy to forget how much Palin lowered the bar for the Repug Party.
 
Craig234 said:
Liberal is a broad word. The poisonous James Carville, and I'm not comparing you with him, would say he's a 'liberal'. George W. Bush tried to privatize Social Security, illegally wiretapped the country, tortured people, passed a tax bill redistributing trillions of borrowed dollars to the rich, and a lot more - that is who the Steve Schmidt Republican was, even if neither he nor Bush like trump. Those are not liberal policies.
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The bolded's interesting, though. I take no animus by it, but I do like James Carville. I think I've still got some old Blue-Dog in me. But, I do get that he's got the Clintonian neo-conservative thing going-on - though.

Despite my taking the RL Chomsky's name, I really don't have the Liberal chops he has. I do very much like Bernie, though. And he has remained pretty consistent for half a century or more. There's something to be said about that.
 
Aletheia said:
I don't think it's that Democrats are not capable of generating dirty, underhanded, and tactless rhetoric, it's just that decorum is their Achille's heel.

Republicans love to appeal to others by acting as if they are loud bullies in a kindergarten school yard fight. Unfortunately, it seems to appeal to many, but it's not really the Democrat way.
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I think this is a great post, and the bolded phrased it well.
 
Craig234 said:
I think Bernie ran at the right time in 2016, but an unknown curmudgeon progressive who wouldn't take big money running against the most famous Democrat in the country who had really been running for 24 years, was all but an insanely impossible thing, though he did remarkably.

In 2020, I agree with you that despite Bernie basically winning the first 3 or 4 primaries, too many Democrats wanted to 'play it safe' as they thought and didn't vote for the person with the best policies. They wanted 'the guy who had been VP', the guy who is closest to bringing Obama back, and that's what they got.
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They also wanted a guy that could get Indies or maybe even disaffected Republicans/ex-Republicans. And you know what? They might have been right! It appears to be working; with a little help from Trump - of course ...
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
I think Sanders would have defeated Trump by 5% - 6%. Not a blowout, but a significant victory. Sadly, a lot of men didn't vote for Clinton simply because she is a woman.
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I too have no doubt Sanders would have defeated Trump. And it would have made for interesting Presidential debates!
 
Kerry Won Ohio said:
Schmidt is not infallible, just like Sanders is not infallible. I'm sure Schmidt will regret the Palin decision until the day he dies.

Schmidt had no idea how stupid the woman was, and he has owned that mistake. He assumed, like most Americans back in 2008, that a governor of any state had at least a 12th grade education. Obviously, that wasn't true in Palin's case. It's easy to forget how much Palin lowered the bar for the Repug Party.
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And who would know, they were just gearing-up! :doh
 
Chomsky said:
And who would know, they were just gearing-up! :doh
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That's for sure. Trump is Sarah Palin on steroids!!

To her credit, I think Palin has a sensibility and a self-awareness that Trump lacks. She realized she ain't cut out for this and she has essentially disappeared.
 
Chomsky said:
I too have no doubt Sanders would have defeated Trump. And it would have made for interesting Presidential debates!
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Oh, my God...I would PAY to watch those debates! I can just imagine the look on Trump's face as Sanders called him a "pathological liar" over and over.
 
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