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Thread: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guys!

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Won Ohio View Post
    I'm not saying that Sanders didn't try hard to get more black support. What I'm telling you was is that he didn't have a very good strategy for getting black support, particularly in the South. Strategy does matter, it's more important than effort.
    The biggest issue for me was that first statement. Your agreeing Sanders tried hard to get more black support addresses my main issue. I'm much more open to your second argument that his strategy to do so was not good, and I'm not informed enough to agree or disagree with you on that. But you should also remember that a 'good strategy' wouldn't necessarily have had much effect. When people are locked into their thinking, it isn't easy to change.
    "...when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." - trump, saying how he has Coronavirus cases down from 15 to over 5,000,000.

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Won Ohio View Post
    Nope. Lots of Republicans feel that way about Trump, which is why they plan to vote for Biden.
    .
    Those are not republicans.

    Again a vote for Biden is a vote for all the laws he is going to enact that republicans are against. A vote for Biden is a vote for all the judges he is going to appoint who are going to uphold laws republicans hate and strike down laws republicans like. With that in mind no actual republican is going to vote for Biden.

    Regarding the judges and laws...none of that **** matters when you have a crazy, racist, mentally ill president who has the potential to destroy this country. Hence, why all the smart Republicans are voting for Biden

    Only brain-dead, unsophisticated trailer trash racist Repugs plan to vote for Trump, because they don't understand how evil and sick Trump is and they don't understand the threat to democracy in this country that Trump poses.

    The only people who actually believe the president is racist, mentally ill and crazy and that nonsense about his suppoters rode the short bus to school.So intelligent person actually believes those things about Trump or his supporters.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
    That's a myth. It's a myth about a left-right spectrum, that says 'independents want someone further to the right, someone more corporatist, someone more like Republicans'.

    There are some 'independents' like that. But there are a lot who are not, which is why Bernie - who by the way, might just have a little appeal to independents as the only frickin candidate who has registered as an independent - got two independent voters for one Hillary got. Independents trump got to vote for him by running to the LEFT of Hillary, promising to tax the rich, promising universal healthcare, promising to be less of a 'party insider' - like Bernie.

    It lets centrists/corporatists pat themselves on the back and dismiss Bernie, because of a myth. IMO, Bernie would likely have won in 2016 and prevented all this, and Democrats who picked Hillary caused trump.

    This time, it is different. I felt either Biden or Bernie are likely to beat trump, that it's an anti-trump election. The issue for Democrats was, do they want a return to 'plutocracy light' under Biden, or do they want the policies the country needs, a return to FDR values, under Bernie? Voters agreed with Bernie on the issues, but ran scared and wanted the 'safe' choice. And threw away a very rare chance to beat the corporatist political dominance.

    Yes, Bernie has 'some influence', has moved Biden a bit to 'the left', but bottom line, it's the corporate side of the Democratic Party put in power, not the progressive side. Many Democrats will feel great relief it's not trump, will cry tears of joy, thinking they beat trump, not realizing they threw away a rare chance to get a president we really need. They'll be happy, but don't realize the compromise they made.
    I've got to admit, you do make the progressive/liberal argument well.

    I too agreed Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016. But remember, while the Party politicos rallied against Bernie, it was the rank & file that voted against him & for HRC.

    I still believe Biden is more palatable to the country as a whole, including moderates & Indies. But I will not deny Bernie is right there, too. I do believe there is more ideological opposition to Bernie, even if just by his taken moniker - rather than his policies.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I've got to admit, you do make the progressive/liberal argument well.
    Thank you.

    I too agreed Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016. But remember, while the Party politicos rallied against Bernie, it was the rank & file that voted against him & for HRC.
    I have always placed blame on Democratic voters for it. There is some analogy between a 'trump cult' and a 'Democratic Party loyalty' to its hierarchy.

    I still believe Biden is more palatable to the country as a whole, including moderates & Indies. But I will not deny Bernie is right there, too. I do believe there is more ideological opposition to Bernie, even if just by his taken moniker - rather than his policies.[/QUOTE]

    I think Bernie is not as strong in 2020, when the party and country so desperately about beating trump, even though the agree with Bernie on issues more than Biden, as he was in 2016, when we were going to get change, and voters picked bad change when good change wasn't on the ballot in the general.

    I'll tell you what I think a big part of what you're saying is. The US has conditioning for a century to be against 'far left'. It was Eugene Debs and socialism, and then it was communism in the cold war, and it's continued as opposition to the same ideas viewed as bad in the past in Mao and Stalin, and the present (though not the same as those) in Cuba and Venezuela. And the conditioning is so strong, that anyone seen as 'different', is warped into a 'far left', 'communist' type candidate - even though what he really is is an FDR type candidate, and t's the country that has gone so radically far into a plutocracy, that now those traditional, good for the people policies are viewed as if they're communism. That's what people are talking about with the 'Overton window'.
    "...when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." - trump, saying how he has Coronavirus cases down from 15 to over 5,000,000.

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    It’s amusing to me to read all this back and forth based on statements by talking heads and the media. To understand the events in the presidential contest, just apply the simple concept of “follow the money”.
    Biden beat Sanders because of corporate and Wall Street money. They don’t like Sanders. The DNC made sure Biden won.
    Steve Schmidt is just a sellout. He works for MSNBC, not too hard to figure out.
    It’s all about the money. Money makes politics go ‘round. The rest is mostly bull****.
    "C'mon man!.....Are you a junky!!??". -Basement Joe Biden

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
    Thank you.
    Welcome!



    I have always placed blame on Democratic voters for it. There is some analogy between a 'trump cult' and a 'Democratic Party loyalty' to its hierarchy.
    Agreed! Without realizing it, by embracing the Clinton's many Dems moved into the neo-conservative camp.



    I think Bernie is not as strong in 2020, when the party and country so desperately about beating trump, even though the agree with Bernie on issues more than Biden, as he was in 2016, when we were going to get change, and voters picked bad change when good change wasn't on the ballot in the general.
    Yes, Bernie's personal time was 2016. However now, he has achieved his highest level of impact ever, I believe, barring being behind the resolute desk. He has really tapped into a vein. He not only held his own, but garnered respect in two Fox News townhalls. As did Buttigieg (another guy I really like). Think about that!

    I'll tell you what I think a big part of what you're saying is. The US has conditioning for a century to be against 'far left'. It was Eugene Debs and socialism, and then it was communism in the cold war, and it's continued as opposition to the same ideas viewed as bad in the past in Mao and Stalin, and the present (though not the same as those) in Cuba and Venezuela. And the conditioning is so strong, that anyone seen as 'different', is warped into a 'far left', 'communist' type candidate - even though what he really is is an FDR type candidate, and t's the country that has gone so radically far into a plutocracy, that now those traditional, good for the people policies are viewed as if they're communism. That's what people are talking about with the 'Overton window'.
    There's truth to that. Though during this time we had FDR & also the 60's, and we flourished with great periods of liberalism. The Warren Court was, IMO, the high-point.

    If HRC wouldn't have let us down in what should have been an easy win, we'd be looking at a 7-2 Lib court, rather than 5-4 Con with a 6-3 Con threat!
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Though during this time we had FDR & also the 60's, and we flourished with great periods of liberalism. The Warren Court was, IMO, the high-point.
    Here's the thing about FDR. The country has become a plutocracy, so now, his policies and Bernie's, look 'far left' and 'communist'. But at the time, given democracy still was supposed to be democracy, his policies were viewed as 'saving capitalism' from a strong socialist movement. Bernie was the 'centrist' of that time. Bernie is the centrist, the rest are flavors of right-wing.

    If HRC wouldn't have let us down in what should have been an easy win, we'd be looking at a 7-2 Lib court, rather than 5-4 Con with a 6-3 Con threat!
    Imagine Bernie had apponted two judges instead of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. The court would be at its best possibly ever. You know how I criticize Eisenhower - you love Warren, Eisenhower said nominating Warren was his biggest mistake. Bit of Warren lover trivia: Earl Warren was the nominee for California governor of both the Republicans and Democrats. Imagine.
    "...when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." - trump, saying how he has Coronavirus cases down from 15 to over 5,000,000.

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    Re: The Lincoln Project Trump Attack Ads Are Brilliant. Democrats, You Need To Learn From These Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
    Here's the thing about FDR. The country has become a plutocracy, so now, his policies and Bernie's, look 'far left' and 'communist'. But at the time, given democracy still was supposed to be democracy, his policies were viewed as 'saving capitalism' from a strong socialist movement. Bernie was the 'centrist' of that time. Bernie is the centrist, the rest are flavors of right-wing.



    Imagine Bernie had apponted two judges instead of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. The court would be at its best possibly ever. You know how I criticize Eisenhower - you love Warren, Eisenhower said nominating Warren was his biggest mistake.
    Considering Eisenhower eschewed enforcing the Brown decision whenever he could, I wouldn't doubt that.

    Bit of Warren lover trivia: Earl Warren was the nominee for California governor of both the Republicans and Democrats. Imagine.
    Hah! How about that? Thanks for the the tidbit.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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