• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump and Kushner must be prosecuted for crimes against humanity

Guyzilla

Guyzilla

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
3,672
Reaction score
1,361
Location
menifee calif.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
If this is true–and there is very little reason to doubt its veracity, despite the White House press secretary’s denials–it would constitute perhaps the greatest crime against humanity of any president in American history. Andrew Jackson’s Trail of Tears was more deliberately vicious and murderous; George W. Bush’s immoral war of choice in Iraq killed more people overall.

But no American president has ever betrayed his oath of office more profoundly than in deliberately allowing the deaths of more than 150,000 of his own fellow citizens and counting for partisan political gain.


Genocide. Yes, it sounds preposterous. It sounds like the hyperbole of the deeply unserious. But what else can you call it? No word is perfect, but the crime must have a name that fits the monumental scope of its evil. It must describe what actually happened. And what happened is that the president and his son-in-law deliberately allowed 150,000 (and counting) Americans to die of a pandemic, because it would mostly kill off their political opponents. Because it would kill off mostly poor people of color. Because they thought they could gain an upper hand by blaming opposing governors. But they thought it would advantage them politically. It’s like a plot out of a bad action movie with a comic book villain, except it’s real life and those villains are still governing and making decisions.

When the founders named “high crimes and misdemeanors” as the basis for impeaching a president, they chose the phrase because it was deliberately vague: it would be impossible to write a law to cover every possible abuse of power by a deranged executive. They expected the Congress to respect its own authority and the health of the country enough to know when a relevant “high crime” or “misdemeanor” had taken place.
Trump and Kushner Should Be Prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity | Washington Monthly
------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn, sounds like I wrote this. SPOT ON, as they say. Trump and all his crimes, pale in comparison to his genocide, PURPOSEFUL.

I am ready to fight this evil to the end, and I mean with all my might. Trump will answer for these acts, and so will his son in law.

Might be fun, if Trump was actually prosecuted in the world court that Biden reauthorizes in our names.

They are going to teach our schoolchildren about the Trump genocide. And I will die before I will allow right wingers to expunge that from the textbooks.

This will be the epitaph of the Republican party.
 
Guyzilla said:
If this is true–and there is very little reason to doubt its veracity, despite the White House press secretary’s denials–it would constitute perhaps the greatest crime against humanity of any president in American history. Andrew Jackson’s Trail of Tears was more deliberately vicious and murderous; George W. Bush’s immoral war of choice in Iraq killed more people overall.

But no American president has ever betrayed his oath of office more profoundly than in deliberately allowing the deaths of more than 150,000 of his own fellow citizens and counting for partisan political gain.


Genocide. Yes, it sounds preposterous. It sounds like the hyperbole of the deeply unserious. But what else can you call it? No word is perfect, but the crime must have a name that fits the monumental scope of its evil. It must describe what actually happened. And what happened is that the president and his son-in-law deliberately allowed 150,000 (and counting) Americans to die of a pandemic, because it would mostly kill off their political opponents. Because it would kill off mostly poor people of color. Because they thought they could gain an upper hand by blaming opposing governors. But they thought it would advantage them politically. It’s like a plot out of a bad action movie with a comic book villain, except it’s real life and those villains are still governing and making decisions.

When the founders named “high crimes and misdemeanors” as the basis for impeaching a president, they chose the phrase because it was deliberately vague: it would be impossible to write a law to cover every possible abuse of power by a deranged executive. They expected the Congress to respect its own authority and the health of the country enough to know when a relevant “high crime” or “misdemeanor” had taken place.
Trump and Kushner Should Be Prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity | Washington Monthly
------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn, sounds like I wrote this. SPOT ON, as they say. Trump and all his crimes, pale in comparison to his genocide, PURPOSEFUL.

I am ready to fight this evil to the end, and I mean with all my might. Trump will answer for these acts, and so will his son in law.

Might be fun, if Trump was actually prosecuted in the world court that Biden reauthorizes in our names.

They are going to teach our schoolchildren about the Trump genocide. And I will die before I will allow right wingers to expunge that from the textbooks.

This will be the epitaph of the Republican party.
Click to expand...

Masterbation with a keyboard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Masterbation with a keyboard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Is this denial the best repose that you can manage when Kushner admitted that he didn't want to address to the Coronavirus situation because there was information that it was killing more democrats than republicans and that he could blame the governors for thgose deaths and a lack of a rational national response. If the Democrats did this you would be outraged but you'll happily look the other wsy when it is a republican who shares your racism and bigotry.
 
Yeah, the nation should definitely explore legal options once he's voted out.
 
Guyzilla said:
If this is true–and there is very little reason to doubt its veracity, despite the White House press secretary’s denials–it would constitute perhaps the greatest crime against humanity of any president in American history. Andrew Jackson’s Trail of Tears was more deliberately vicious and murderous; George W. Bush’s immoral war of choice in Iraq killed more people overall.

But no American president has ever betrayed his oath of office more profoundly than in deliberately allowing the deaths of more than 150,000 of his own fellow citizens and counting for partisan political gain.


Genocide. Yes, it sounds preposterous. It sounds like the hyperbole of the deeply unserious. But what else can you call it? No word is perfect, but the crime must have a name that fits the monumental scope of its evil. It must describe what actually happened. And what happened is that the president and his son-in-law deliberately allowed 150,000 (and counting) Americans to die of a pandemic, because it would mostly kill off their political opponents. Because it would kill off mostly poor people of color. Because they thought they could gain an upper hand by blaming opposing governors. But they thought it would advantage them politically. It’s like a plot out of a bad action movie with a comic book villain, except it’s real life and those villains are still governing and making decisions.

When the founders named “high crimes and misdemeanors” as the basis for impeaching a president, they chose the phrase because it was deliberately vague: it would be impossible to write a law to cover every possible abuse of power by a deranged executive. They expected the Congress to respect its own authority and the health of the country enough to know when a relevant “high crime” or “misdemeanor” had taken place.
Trump and Kushner Should Be Prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity | Washington Monthly
------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn, sounds like I wrote this. SPOT ON, as they say. Trump and all his crimes, pale in comparison to his genocide, PURPOSEFUL.

I am ready to fight this evil to the end, and I mean with all my might. Trump will answer for these acts, and so will his son in law.

Might be fun, if Trump was actually prosecuted in the world court that Biden reauthorizes in our names.

They are going to teach our schoolchildren about the Trump genocide. And I will die before I will allow right wingers to expunge that from the textbooks.

This will be the epitaph of the Republican party.
Click to expand...
"there is very little reason to doubt its veracity" is not sufficient evidence to bring out the guillotine. Until there is some hard evidence like emails, meeting recordings, etc the article and your post IS the "hyperbole of the deeply unserious". I'm telling you this even though I consider Donald Trump to be among the worst presidents in our country's history. Jared Kushner is a waste of oxygen.

Posts like this make us (i.e. liberals) look bad. They damage our credibility for the times when there IS ACTUAL EVIDENCE of corruption and high crimes. So please stop.
 
Last edited:
Elmo said:
"there is very little reason to doubt its veracity" is not sufficient evidence to bring out the guillotine. Until there is some hard evidence like emails, meeting recordings, etc the article and your post IS the "hyperbole of the deeply unserious". I'm telling you this even though I consider Donald Trump to be among the worst president's in our country's history. Jared Kushner is a waste of oxygen.

Posts like this make us (i.e. liberals) look bad. They damage our credibility for the times when there IS ACTUAL EVIDENCE of corruption and high crimes. So please stop.
Click to expand...

This is how WATERGATE started, with suspicions, and informants. Should we libs ignore all that Trump does? We have a DUTY to rind out the truth, and to punish them for it.
 
Guyzilla said:
This will be the epitaph of the Republican party.
Click to expand...

Your heart is in the right place. But political factions are not generally defeated because they have bad ideologies, but for other reasons. The Nazis had a bad ideology, but that's not why they lost. Franco had a bad ideology, but he defeated noble democracy fighters. Republicans' power and agenda comes from one thing, plutocracy, and that's another reason our most important issue is to reduce their weapon: money, and make the people wealthier instead.
 
Elmo said:
"there is very little reason to doubt its veracity" is not sufficient evidence to bring out the guillotine. Until there is some hard evidence like emails, meeting recordings, etc the article and your post IS the "hyperbole of the deeply unserious". I'm telling you this even though I consider Donald Trump to be among the worst presidents in our country's history. Jared Kushner is a waste of oxygen.

Posts like this make us (i.e. liberals) look bad. They damage our credibility for the times when there IS ACTUAL EVIDENCE of corruption and high crimes. So please stop.
Click to expand...

Emails? They've been publicly framing COVID as a blue state problem since April.

April 23 briefing:
DONALD TRUMP: And if we can help states, we're always going to help states. Now there's different ways of helping states. Some ways are better than others. So we're looking. It is interesting that the states that are in trouble do happen to be blue. It is interesting. You know, if you look around, I mean, the states that seem to have the problem happen to be Democrat. [Spoiler alert from August: they didn't help states.]
Click to expand...

Gee, hard to read what they were thinking.
 
Guyzilla said:
This is how WATERGATE started, with suspicions, and informants. Should we libs ignore all that Trump does? We have a DUTY to rind out the truth, and to punish them for it.
Click to expand...

Sure, watergate started with nothing more than suspicions. Then there was an investigation which turned up hard evidence. Only after that investigation was the president disgraced.

So no, don't ignore it. Call for an investigation. I think the seriousness of this accusation warrants it. Screaming about genocide should not be the FIRST step in the process.
 
Elmo said:
"there is very little reason to doubt its veracity" is not sufficient evidence to bring out the guillotine. Until there is some hard evidence like emails, meeting recordings, etc the article and your post IS the "hyperbole of the deeply unserious". I'm telling you this even though I consider Donald Trump to be among the worst presidents in our country's history. Jared Kushner is a waste of oxygen.

Posts like this make us (i.e. liberals) look bad. They damage our credibility for the times when there IS ACTUAL EVIDENCE of corruption and high crimes. So please stop.
Click to expand...

Try reading the evidence in the article, linked below. Bending over backwards to ignore the evidence and make every assumption in trump's favor against all history and evidence is a terrible idea and makes Democrats look worse. You're right in general principle that Democrats should not embrace allegations excessively past the evidence, but not in your ignoring the evidence we do have.

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air” | Vanity Fair
 
Elmo said:
Sure, watergate started with nothing more than suspicions. Then there was an investigation which turned up hard evidence. Only after that investigation was the president disgraced.

So no, don't ignore it. Call for an investigation. I think the seriousness of this accusation warrants it. Screaming about genocide should not be the FIRST step in the process.
Click to expand...

So, until Trump admits it, you call it tiddlywinks?
 
Elmo said:
Sure, watergate started with nothing more than suspicions. Then there was an investigation which turned up hard evidence. Only after that investigation was the president disgraced.

So no, don't ignore it. Call for an investigation. I think the seriousness of this accusation warrants it. Screaming about genocide should not be the FIRST step in the process.
Click to expand...

If Nixon had not recorded his crimes, it wouldn't have reduced the crimes one bit. There was other evidence of them; there were investigations, and it was largely partisan, Democrats largely supporting the allegations, and Republicans denying the. Democrats were right.

Then, there WERE the tapes, removing doubt for most (a large minority STILL supported Nixon). Democrats were not wrong who accepted the other evidence against Nixon, even if he would not have been held accountable without the tapes because Republicans refused to. That did not make Democrats 'look bad'; rather refusing to look at the evidence, and assuming Nixon's innocence, would.
 
Greenbeard said:
Emails? They've been publicly framing COVID as a blue state problem since April.

April 23 briefing:


Gee, hard to read what they were thinking.
Click to expand...

I think it's obvious that they've been trying to shift blame for the pandemic to democrats and democratic policies. Scummy and corrupt, but not sufficient to start screaming about genocide. To prove that accusation, you need to show that they deliberately fumbled their response for the express (as in vocalized/written) purpose of killing democrats. Remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
 
Lisa said:
Is this denial the best repose that you can manage when Kushner admitted that he didn't want to address to the Coronavirus situation because there was information that it was killing more democrats than republicans and that he could blame the governors for thgose deaths and a lack of a rational national response. If the Democrats did this you would be outraged but you'll happily look the other wsy when it is a republican who shares your racism and bigotry.
Click to expand...

I made no denial, is English not your first language? The OP came using a keyboard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Elmo said:
I think it's obvious that they've been trying to shift blame for the pandemic to democrats and democratic policies. Scummy and corrupt, but not sufficient to start screaming about genocide. To prove that accusation, you need to show that they deliberately fumbled their response for the express (as in vocalized/written) purpose of killing democrats. Remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
Click to expand...

When you see a person going from store to store stabbing people, and in the 11th store he throws the knife at someone and is cuts them, it's not unreasonable to assume it wasn't an accident at that point. trump didn't appear in office from Mars today. There is history of his mental state, his agenda, his mendacity, and that informs reasonable interpretations of his actions.
 
Craig234 said:
If Nixon had not recorded his crimes, it wouldn't have reduced the crimes one bit.
Click to expand...

People are so stuck in the Watergate mindset they forget we don't need tapes--Trump does this stuff in public.

3+ months ago he stands at a podium and muses "It is interesting that the states that are in trouble do happen to be blue. It is interesting. You know, if you look around, I mean, the states that seem to have the problem happen to be Democrat." while blocking aid to states.

Here's an article from three months ago:
He’s pressured Democratic leaders in other ways, too. Standing at the White House podium, he famously acknowledged that he had told Vice President Mike Pence not to return calls for help from governors who have criticized him. He’s repeatedly encouraged the “liberate” protesters, primarily targeting Democratic governors. In the past few days, he’s loudly trumpeted his support for a beauty-parlor operator in Dallas and the Tesla founder Elon Musk, who each reopened in explicit defiance of local stay-at-home orders. Barr has also threatened to sue states that impose what the administration considers excessive restrictions.
Click to expand...

All true!

Now in August we have to pretend to be surprised that they were privately saying and doing the same things they said and did in public? Absurd.
 
Elmo said:
I think it's obvious that they've been trying to shift blame for the pandemic to democrats and democratic policies. Scummy and corrupt, but not sufficient to start screaming about genocide. To prove that accusation, you need to show that they deliberately fumbled their response for the express (as in vocalized/written) purpose of killing democrats. Remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
Click to expand...

MALIGN neglect, when charged with the common good, is PURPOSEFUL.
 
Craig234 said:
Try reading the evidence in the article, linked below. Bending over backwards to ignore the evidence and make every assumption in trump's favor against all history and evidence is a terrible idea and makes Democrats look worse. You're right in general principle that Democrats should not embrace allegations excessively past the evidence, but not in your ignoring the evidence we do have.

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air” | Vanity Fair
Click to expand...
To summarize:

1. The most serious issue is that the government bought millions of defective covid tests from shady sources without following proper procedure. This was probably under Kushner's direction, and it's reasonable to suspect that he or someone else pocketed some of the money.
2. Many of the people in charge of coming up with a plan were entirely unqualified for the task.
3. A plan was eventually produced, but then shelved for unknown reasons.

It looks like gross corruption and incompetence. I am NOT dismissing the seriousness of those crimes. Considering the number of people that might have died due to their negligence and corruption, they should absolutely be investigated and prosecuted harshly. Those crimes are not genocide though. That is a very specific accusation, and it should not be made without very specific circumstances.

Craig234 said:
If Nixon had not recorded his crimes, it wouldn't have reduced the crimes one bit. There was other evidence of them; there were investigations, and it was largely partisan, Democrats largely supporting the allegations, and Republicans denying the. Democrats were right.

Then, there WERE the tapes, removing doubt for most (a large minority STILL supported Nixon). Democrats were not wrong who accepted the other evidence against Nixon, even if he would not have been held accountable without the tapes because Republicans refused to. That did not make Democrats 'look bad'; rather refusing to look at the evidence, and assuming Nixon's innocence, would.
Click to expand...
I don't see how any of this contradicts what I said. I agree with it. I never said watergate made Democrats look bad. I'm saying watergate and the accusation of genocide in the OP are not comparable based on the evidence.
 
Guyzilla said:
So, until Trump admits it, you call it tiddlywinks?
Click to expand...
No, I call it probable corruption and incompetence worthy of further investigation. Which is very different from genocide.

Guyzilla said:
MALIGN neglect, when charged with the common good, is PURPOSEFUL.
Click to expand...
All politicians are charged with the common good. Neglect, incompetence, and corruption by politicians are not genocide, even when they cause thousands of deaths.
 
Guyzilla said:
If this is true–and there is very little reason to doubt its veracity, despite the White House press secretary’s denials–it would constitute perhaps the greatest crime against humanity of any president in American history. Andrew Jackson’s Trail of Tears was more deliberately vicious and murderous; George W. Bush’s immoral war of choice in Iraq killed more people overall.

But no American president has ever betrayed his oath of office more profoundly than in deliberately allowing the deaths of more than 150,000 of his own fellow citizens and counting for partisan political gain.


Genocide. Yes, it sounds preposterous. It sounds like the hyperbole of the deeply unserious. But what else can you call it? No word is perfect, but the crime must have a name that fits the monumental scope of its evil. It must describe what actually happened. And what happened is that the president and his son-in-law deliberately allowed 150,000 (and counting) Americans to die of a pandemic, because it would mostly kill off their political opponents. Because it would kill off mostly poor people of color. Because they thought they could gain an upper hand by blaming opposing governors. But they thought it would advantage them politically. It’s like a plot out of a bad action movie with a comic book villain, except it’s real life and those villains are still governing and making decisions.

When the founders named “high crimes and misdemeanors” as the basis for impeaching a president, they chose the phrase because it was deliberately vague: it would be impossible to write a law to cover every possible abuse of power by a deranged executive. They expected the Congress to respect its own authority and the health of the country enough to know when a relevant “high crime” or “misdemeanor” had taken place.
Trump and Kushner Should Be Prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity | Washington Monthly
------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn, sounds like I wrote this. SPOT ON, as they say. Trump and all his crimes, pale in comparison to his genocide, PURPOSEFUL.

I am ready to fight this evil to the end, and I mean with all my might. Trump will answer for these acts, and so will his son in law.

Might be fun, if Trump was actually prosecuted in the world court that Biden reauthorizes in our names.

They are going to teach our schoolchildren about the Trump genocide. And I will die before I will allow right wingers to expunge that from the textbooks.

This will be the epitaph of the Republican party.
Click to expand...

We now know Trump can't be touched by the law while president (apparently the president is above the law, totally destroying the well worn "nobody is above the law"), and would have to be handled through impeachment on new charges. That ain't gonna happen with only 3 months until an election that Trump will probably lose.
I'm looking more at having charges ready to go (SDNY? elsewhere?) by January 20th, 2021, so Trump can be immediately placed into custody at noon as a flight risk.
 
Elmo said:
No, I call it probable corruption and incompetence worthy of further investigation. Which is very different from genocide.


All politicians are charged with the common good. Neglect, incompetence, and corruption by politicians are not genocide, even when they cause thousands of deaths.
Click to expand...

MAlign neglect is NOT neglect, incompetence or any other unwitting definition. It is purposeful, and often uses an alibi.

And I am good with ALLEGED Genocide.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom