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Trump argues "reconciliation" as reason for honoring treason

his civil war history knowledge probably includes the Bugs Bunny episode about it and whatever he has heard on fox.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
You have promoted no evidence at all. You found a list of measures that do not prove your point. Difference in outcome does not mean there is a rig system. In fact it means the opposite. A systemically racist system would have equal outcome between all races. Because we know that different groups of people have different cultures different values different matters of acting. So it only stands to reason they would have different outcomes. The only way That a system where groups that we call races could have equal outcomes without systemic racism is if they all did everything exactly equal. And you cannot show that.

Your data is accurate, but it does not support your conclusion.
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The difference in outcome is the proof of the rigged system and is the result of decades of compounding issues. You refusing to see that is on you.
 
JackA said:
Here is the nub of Trump's argument against stripping the names of Confederate generals from military bases. It appears in Mark Thiessen's column in the Post this mornng:

“I believe in history. To me, this was Fort Bragg named after somebody as a reconciliation matter. I mean he was a general, he was a tough general, he’s very tough, but this was done for reconciliation. These bases were named to bring the South because it was tremendous animosity from the many years to bring the South . . .”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-statues-renaming-cancel-culture/?arc404=true

If I may, reconciliation was letting "the generals" go home and resume civilian life as American citizens, in lieu of hanging them. It was decidedly not erecting heroic statues in their honor or immortalizing their names at military bases.
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Trump proves yet again that he is an illiterate moron. "To bring the South"? WTF does that even mean? Does Trump know?
 
here is the real problem... we shall use the term "you" to mean the left in general and those that lean towards believing in systemic racism and we shall use the term "we" in describing those on the right in general that believe in a measured reform but not necessarily systemic racism.

you guys are so fired up about this that you will not accept ANY OTHER answer than racism as the cause for our opinion, due to what seems to amount to comparatively few deaths in the black community by the police. I can understand that there is anger though. the media has sensationalized this message so much that there is a lot of anger. WE on the other hand, do not necessarily see that statistics prove this out and while we believe that reform for police is necessary , we do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater as we believe it would only make things worse.

ATTITUDE on both sides is making it this much worse.
we need to accept each others ideas and come to a compromise to fix this. otherwise there is gong to be a LOT more hate and a lot MORE deaths all over for everyone because the anger is building.

I think you do have to recognize , however, that it is playing out where you are getting more deaths committed with police morale down and police resigning than you would with police brutality... and these deaths are mostly innocents.
 
Hypothetical said:
ok well 1 caveat, I am not speaking to business dealings, I am speaking to police interactions.

7 Statistics That Show That ‘Systemic Racism’ Doesn’t Exist In Policing | The Daily Wire


WARNING: this video shows graphic violence:

YouTube
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The Daily Wire - Media Bias/Fact Check

Overall, we rate The Daily Wire borderline questionable and Right Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that align with the conservative right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks. If the Daily Wire fails another fact check will be moved to the Questionable list.
 
tacomancer said:
In this case I was referring to the love of the confederacy and the decades of treating black people like second class citizens or worse. Because of that and there being no real coming to terms, this has been a part of our national story, which is part of the fuel for the frustration that we are seeing everywhere. The fact that democrats happen to be mayors have nothing to do with the riots given that the problem of the poor (and disenfranchisement of minorities for historical reasons I already mentioned) being concentrated into parts of certain cities and that resulting hopelessness creating a negative cultural feedback loop which then fuels negative stereo types in other groups. This created a powder keg. However, going back to the poor being concentrates, that creates problems in any city throughout history or pretty much any nation. That is not an ideological problem but an economic one (and one that is probably unsolvable under any ideology)
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That is all nice information, but fails to explain how changing the name of a military base in Texas would fix (alter?) any of it - especially if the basis of these problems was economic (which I very much doubt). Where I live, the median household income is about $20K below the US median, yet the crime rate is very low.

Uhland, Texas - Wikipedia
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I would agree, welfare should be abolished, the birth control pill outlawed, no-fault divorce abolished, etc. And prayer brought back to schools. The liberal position on these issues has completely destroyed the black middle class.

It should be a criminal offense for fathers to abandon their children as well.
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You do realise this is 2020, not 1820? Thank goodness those with your anachronistic attitude are dying off.
 
RAMOSS said:
The Daily Wire - Media Bias/Fact Check

Overall, we rate The Daily Wire borderline questionable and Right Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that align with the conservative right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks. If the Daily Wire fails another fact check will be moved to the Questionable list.
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i don't care what political leaning fact check organizations call it. I can see FBI statistics and check the accuracy. if you come up with an anomaly on that front, let me know.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
That argument might have been valid if the base was named shortly after the Civil War, but not decades later in 1921.
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Correct. All of these bases were created in the 20th century, not as a peace offering after the South lost the war.
 
tacomancer said:
The difference in outcome is the proof of the rigged system and is the result of decades of compounding issues. You refusing to see that is on you.
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No, it is not.

If you and I took a test, and I got a higher grade than you. The system was not rigged by necessity. If I spent every night studying, and practicing the material and preparing for a test. And you spent every other night partying and drinking. I would get a higher grade than you that system is not rigged. A lot of differences in group outcome, are attributable to personal choices made by people in those groups. Go look at some of these Black Lives Matter rioters in the streets and the vile disgusting manner in which they talk. Tried correcting their English or telling them to use regular non-violent language. Just see what happens. Talking and acting in a manner that is offensive to the majority of the population, will in enough itself result in lower outcomes. We know that happens because people from the south talk in a manner that sounds unrefined and uneducated. And that is just one difference. However you can always choose to speak without vulgarity, and you can always spend time learning to speak better English. That is within your ability. But if you are black and try to work on the manner in which you talk you will be accused of acting white. And that’s an insult

How is that the fault of white racists?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Actually that’s exactly what it was.

And besides, it would be evil to eliminate memorials now or rename bases because it would only legitimize insurrection and rioting as a form of enacting political change
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The base wasn’t named 50+ years after the Civil War ended to facilitate reconciliation. A ridiculous assertion.

And it wouldn’t be evil to to rename bases. It is appropriate and way past due. Another ridiculous assertion.

Removing monuments to traitors isn’t political. And a third ridiculous assertion.
 
Hypothetical said:
i don't care what political leaning fact check organizations call it. I can see FBI statistics and check the accuracy. if you come up with an anomaly on that front, let me know.
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Yet, you seem to rely on sources that are known to use false information. WHy is that?
 
snakestretcher said:
You do realise this is 2020, not 1820? Thank goodness those with your anachronistic attitude are dying off.
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Thank goodness black children are not getting a good education and are dying in the streets. Is what you’re saying. You seem to think that long-standing social structures that the left eliminated during the sexual and cultural revolution of the 60s we’re just oppressive systems of power. In fact they were structures that were built over thousands of years of philosophical and moral advancements that created the type of society where people could live in relative freedom and prosperity.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is all nice information, but fails to explain how changing the name of a military base in Texas would fix (alter?) any of it - especially if the basis of these problems was economic (which I very much doubt). Where I live, the median household income is about $20K below the US median, yet the crime rate is very low.

Uhland, Texas - Wikipedia
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It goes into the cultural context piece. If you live in a society that celebrates keeping people like you down (even if its history, but still celebrated), most people would want to correct that history because it feeds into the narrative of today, which needs to be changed.

Admittedly, this problem is complex because it is two issues that feed into each other. One is racism and the other is economic. But I can imagine a lot of rural people can see it in their own context with the way people are made fun of in the south for being uneducated poor yokels and therefore not getting all the opportunities due to them because of that perception (which feeds into the sort of resentment that got us Trump). You guys face the same issue often enough, but you guys (Uhland and other similar places) don't have to fight racial perceptions on top of it which just compounds the issue and makes it easy for people to be classified in inappropriate ways.
 
We are never going to move on from this subject with nonsense like "reconciliation is the reason to honor treason."

Best I can tell, no one unified Germany from 'cold war' divisions then decided to put up a statue or name a base after Hitler or various Nazi leaders overlooking Jewish death camps.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Thank goodness black children are not getting a good education and are dying in the streets. Is what you’re saying. You seem to think that long-standing social structures that the left eliminated during the sexual and cultural revolution of the 60s we’re just oppressive systems of power. In fact they were structures that were built over thousands of years of philosophical and moral advancements that created the type of society where people could live in relative freedom and prosperity.
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Don't ever presume to arrogantly assume you know what I'm saying. "Moral advancement"? Tell that to the thousands of kids damaged for life by pedophile clergy; tell that to the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost through your belligerent foreign policy.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No, it is not.

If you and I took a test, and I got a higher grade than you. The system was not rigged by necessity. If I spent every night studying, and practicing the material and preparing for a test. And you spent every other night partying and drinking. I would get a higher grade than you that system is not rigged. A lot of differences in group outcome, are attributable to personal choices made by people in those groups. Go look at some of these Black Lives Matter rioters in the streets and the vile disgusting manner in which they talk. Tried correcting their English or telling them to use regular non-violent language. Just see what happens. Talking and acting in a manner that is offensive to the majority of the population, will in enough itself result in lower outcomes. We know that happens because people from the south talk in a manner that sounds unrefined and uneducated. And that is just one difference. However you can always choose to speak without vulgarity, and you can always spend time learning to speak better English. That is within your ability. But if you are black and try to work on the manner in which you talk you will be accused of acting white. And that’s an insult

How is that the fault of white racists?
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I explained how it works with my conversation with Ttwtt, please feel free to review it.

However, I have to say, what I quoted is exactly the problem, which is people like you. So thank you for being the example.
 
Trump will work variations on this meme right up to the end.

It gets a rise out of the racists in his base every time.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
The base wasn’t named 50+ years after the Civil War ended to facilitate reconciliation. A ridiculous assertion.

And it wouldn’t be evil to to rename bases. It is appropriate and way past due. Another ridiculous assertion.

Removing monuments to traitors isn’t political. And a third ridiculous assertion.
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Evidently what you call 'appropriate' is viewed differently by majority of Americans

------------
ABC Poll: Majority Opposes Renaming Military Bases

As monuments of American history are toppled around the country amid civil unrest, a poll finds a majority of American adults oppose the renaming of U.S. military basis.

In the ABC News poll conducted by Ipsos, 56% of American adults opposed "changing the names of U.S. military bases that are named after Confederate leaders."

ABC Poll: Majority Opposes Renaming Military Bases | Newsmax.com
 
Oborosen said:
But the fact of the matter still stands that these names and statues remained so long, because a vast majority of people were largely fine with them staying exactly where they were.
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Times have changed, and progress is inevitable.
 
tacomancer said:
It goes into the cultural context piece. If you live in a society that celebrates keeping people like you down (even if its history, but still celebrated), most people would want to correct that history because it feeds into the narrative of today, which needs to be changed.

Admittedly, this problem is complex because it is two issues that feed into each other. One is racism and the other is economic. But I can imagine a lot of rural people can see it in their own context with the way people are made fun of in the south for being uneducated poor yokels and therefore not getting all the opportunities due to them because of that perception (which feeds into the sort of resentment that got us Trump). You guys face the same issue often enough, but you guys (Uhland and other similar places) don't have to fight racial perceptions on top of it which just compounds the issue and makes it easy for people to be classified in inappropriate ways.
Click to expand...

Uhland, TX is majority non-white (if you count Hispanic/Latinx, black and Asian folks as 'people of color'). The demographic elephant in the room seems to be households without a daddy present - when that rises from 11%, as in Uhland, to 70% (or more), as in "the hood", then you have a very different outcome.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Uhland, TX is majority non-white (if you count Hispanic/Latinx, black and Asian folks as 'people of color'). The demographic elephant in the room seems to be households without a daddy present - when that rises from 11%, as in Uhland, to 70% (or more), as in "the hood", then you have a very different outcome.
Click to expand...

The problem of broken marriage is something I agree is a major issue and I would strongly support policies that encourage people to remain married through various incentives, so long as they recognized all types of families.
 
I know my country killed a whole bunch of people in your country so can you guys put up a bunch of statues of us please?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
It makes perfect sense.

The names have existed for a century, there is no reason to change them, and people who want the change are revolutionary marxists who’ve endorsed violence. So giving in on their demands will only legitimize violence as a means of political change
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Government is violence by definition. Obey or else. Do what we say or be destroyed.

I agree with Heinlein that no state should have rights it's citizens do not.
 
tacomancer said:
The problem of broken marriage is something I agree is a major issue and I would strongly support policies that encourage people to remain married through various incentives, so long as they recognized all types of families.
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Hmm... might that be a tad more important than changing the names of some military bases and/or toppling some statues of long dead, white folks? What seems to be happening is using "look at that squirrel!" (removing alleged racist, colonial or confederate symbols) to divert attention from those real (major?) issues.

image.jpg
 
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