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The more Biden talks policy, the scarier he gets.

I thought Joe Biden gave a wonderful speech yesterday. At least it was a plan, a vision for where he wants to take this country after taking office. He's focusing on bringing back American manufacturing which will help bring back our economy. He spoke of reducing our reliance on foreign manufacturing and creating five million new jobs right here in the US. He talked about raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour across the board.

Joe Biden talked about investing in our crumbling infrastructure, which is decrepit, collapsing and in desperate need of reconstruction. And the most significant thing to me is that he will reverse the deep tax breaks that Trump gave to the super rich. That's a big deal.

Yes, Joe Biden said everything that I wanted to hear and it wasn't divisive rhetoric, it wasn't threats and it he did not promise unrealistic goals. Everything he talked of, is possible and within reach.
 
Below is the percentage point decline for each bracket. Also note that $5,650 increase in the standard deduction.
2018vs2017rates.jpg

Distributional Analysis of the Conference Agreement for the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act | Full Report | Tax Policy Center
 
eohrnberger said:
Below is the percentage point decline for each bracket. Also note that $5,650 increase in the standard deduction.
2018vs2017rates.jpg

Distributional Analysis of the Conference Agreement for the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act | Full Report | Tax Policy Center
Click to expand...

That is all well and good, but ignores the 12.4% FICA payroll tax (on every $1 of gross wage income) which disappears after (about) $137K. Adding that to each income "bracket" level paints a much different picture of effective federal (income) taxation rates.
 
Grandpappy said:
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time. Biden needs to take that expression to heart, he's not fooling me.
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True, Biden is not fooling anyone, it's Donnie Dugout that's been lying 8 to the bar since he rode down the escalator. Between tRumps lies and your own imagination ... that's enough fooling for anyone.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is all well and good, but ignores the 12.4% FICA payroll tax (on every $1 of gross wage income) which disappears after (about) $137K. Adding that to each income "bracket" level paints a much different picture of effective federal (income) taxation rates.
Click to expand...

But isn't the real question whether the tax cuts allowed the middle to keep more of their income?
And if that middle class benefited the most from the tax cuts?

Or was FICA also revised up for everyone?
 
eohrnberger said:
1) But isn't the real question whether the tax cuts allowed the middle to keep more of their income?
2) And if that middle class benefited the most from the tax cuts?

3) Or was FICA also revised up for everyone?
Click to expand...

1) Some did and some did not, since the personal exemptions were removed when the standard deduction was raised.

2) My point was that the total effective federal (income based) tax rates are higher for those below the FICA cap level. While that did not change due to the recent FIT rate cuts, it is still important to consider.

3) The bulk of the FICA tax burden (which for many lower income folks exceeds their FIT burden - thus the addition of the EITC) disappears after the income cap.
 
Our tax code is tilted to the benefit of the wealthy. They could afford to hire the lobbiest and buy the politicians who write the tax code.

A great way to begin to correct income inequality and reduce our growing federal debt is to return tax rates to pre-reagan rates before trickle down economics took effect.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
1) Some did and some did not, since the personal exemptions were removed when the standard deduction was raised.

2) My point was that the total effective federal (income based) tax rates are higher for those below the FICA cap level. While that did not change due to the recent FIT rate cuts, it is still important to consider.

3) The bulk of the FICA tax burden (which for many lower income folks exceeds their FIT burden - thus the addition of the EITC) disappears after the income cap.
Click to expand...

All good points and good observations. I thank you.
 
Grandpappy said:
Repealing tax cuts, open borders, amnesty, the loss of the oil industry, ridiculous giveaway government programs. It's terrifying.
Hello Joe....... by by, America.
If he wins, might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin. Just so your boss can understand you.
Click to expand...

Maybe it would be a good thing for him to win, and maybe the left will see just how dangerous the people they vote for are.

A little pain next year might wake the country up.
 
rickc said:
Our tax code is tilted to the benefit of the wealthy. They could afford to hire the lobbiest and buy the politicians who write the tax code.
Click to expand...

I dunno, but it certainly doesn't look like that from this data:

Screen-Shot-2019-10-25-at-11-56-55-AM.png


Screen-Shot-2019-10-25-at-11-57-02-AM.png

Who Pays Income Taxes? - Foundation - National Taxpayers Union
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From the curve in the second graph, seems that the more you earn, the more the government taxes (percentage wise).

A great way to begin to correct income inequality and reduce our growing federal debt is to return tax rates to pre-reagan rates before trickle down economics took effect.
Click to expand...

During the first year of Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, which lowered the top marginal tax bracket from 70% to 50% and the lowest bracket from 14% to 11%.

Reaganomics - Wikipedia
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Aren't the people and businesses that are in the top marginal tax bracket the ones that are hiring people for all those 'good paying' solid middle-class jobs?

Wouldn't taking money away from those who hires people reduce the money they'd have to grow their businesses and hire people?
 
I saw Biden speaking to a few people in what looked like a small airplane hanger today. I swear the guy looks looks like he can barely feed himself and we're supposed to elect him president? What's up with that?
 
Grandpappy said:
Repealing tax cuts, open borders, amnesty, the loss of the oil industry, ridiculous giveaway government programs. It's terrifying.
Hello Joe....... by by, America.
If he wins, might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin. Just so your boss can understand you.
Click to expand...

I understand he may put Hillary in his cabinet. You may want to up your blood pressure meds Gramps for that one!!
 
Grandpappy said:
Repealing tax cuts, open borders, amnesty, the loss of the oil industry, ridiculous giveaway government programs. It's terrifying.
Hello Joe....... by by, America.
If he wins, might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin. Just so your boss can understand you.
Click to expand...

Grandpa is saying exactly what his masters are demanding. He will do exactly what they demand as well if he somehow gets power. He doesn't care. He's going senile and has set up his family for the long haul with his 40 years of slimy grifting. If the rest of the country becomes a poverty ridden hellhole, oh well.
 
Grandpappy said:
Repealing tax cuts, open borders, amnesty, the loss of the oil industry, ridiculous giveaway government programs. It's terrifying.
Hello Joe....... by by, America.
If he wins, might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin. Just so your boss can understand you.
Click to expand...

This is why his handlers won't allow him to debate. Crazily they say that Trump needs to release his tax returns first. If it wasn't that, it would be he'd have to lose 30 pounds, When he did that, it would be that Trump must debate him at Shady Acres nursing home. If Trump agreed to that, the demand would be that Joe be allowed 5 minutes to think about an answer each question and "call a friend".
 
eohrnberger said:
All good points and good observations. I thank you.
Click to expand...

You are welcome. Discussing federal income tax policy (and effective rate outcome) is often difficult since a large range of outcomes (net federal tax due) is possible for multiple returns with a an identical given total amount of (gross) income. This is so for many reasons including the source of that income, Social Security retirement, interest, wage/salary and (long/short term) capital gains, are taxed differently (and based on the amount of other income sources - essentially adding a means test for Social Security retirement income) as well as how or upon who that income was later spent. That is to be expected since we have about 80K pages of federal income tax code.
 
lemmiwinx said:
I saw Biden speaking to a few people in what looked like a small airplane hanger today. I swear the guy looks looks like he can barely feed himself and we're supposed to elect him president? What's up with that?
Click to expand...

The liberals call president Trump a Putin puppet, but they put a disaster of a socialist puppet at the top of their list.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You are welcome. Discussing federal income tax policy (and effective rate outcome) is often difficult since a large range of outcomes (net federal tax due) is possible for multiple returns with a an identical given total amount of (gross) income. This is so for many reasons including the source of that income, Social Security retirement, interest, wage/salary and (long/short term) capital gains, are taxed differently (and based on the amount of other income sources - essentially adding a means test for Social Security retirement income) as well as how or upon who that income was later spent. That is to be expected since we have about 80K pages of federal income tax code.
Click to expand...

Wow. 80K pages of tax code? Unbelievable. Seems like some serious culling of that herd is needed.
 
The more the wingers pound on Biden, the stronger the stench of fear.... :lamo
 
eohrnberger said:
Wow. 80K pages of tax code? Unbelievable. Seems like some serious culling of that herd is needed.
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Sounds like we just need a straight percentage taken out of each paycheck. Not tax returns for most situations and people. No worries to do taxes.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Sounds like we just need a straight percentage taken out of each paycheck. Not tax returns for most situations and people. No worries to do taxes.
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What that's been promised time and time again? 'Do you taxes on a 3x5 card'?

No, the byzantine tax code appears to only serve the purposes of the few and in elected office, and not the vast majority of the electorate.
So rather a low percentage that it'll ever happen, and a high percentage that it will only become more byzantine.
 
Grandpappy said:
Repealing tax cuts, open borders, amnesty, the loss of the oil industry, ridiculous giveaway government programs. It's terrifying.
Hello Joe....... by by, America.
If he wins, might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin. Just so your boss can understand you.
Click to expand...

Right now policy doesn't matter. Biden has a 49.6 to 40.8 lead in the polls.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

So far this election has been all about Trump, a referendum on Trump. It's been about here lately about his CoronaVirus response and race relations. But it's always been about his obnoxious personality from the get go. His childish antics of throwing temper tantrums and calling others names like a four year old spoiled brat. It's been about whether the people like him or dislike him as a person, as a president with very unpresidential behavior.

Policy hasn't entered the fray yet. It might after the official campaign season begins on 1 Sep, then again it may not. Time will tell. It all depends on how one views Trump, not so much on how they view Biden. At least not at this point in time.

One also has to remember that in 2016 54% of all voters voted against Trump. The 48% who voted for Hillary along with the 6% who voted against both Trump and Hillary by voting third party. I don't think many of this 54% have changed their minds about Trump. But that remains to be seen.
 
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