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Marxism Good, Moscow Bad?

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sanman

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So I just want to understand from the Marxism-espousing Russia-haters here -- how does your ideology work?

You're claiming that Russia is America's worst foe, and that Marxism is the best way to run America.

So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism, or because of it? I'd really like to hear an answer to that specific question.
 
sanman said:
So I just want to understand from the Marxism-espousing Russia-haters here -- how does your ideology work?

You're claiming that Russia is America's worst foe, and that Marxism is the best way to run America.

So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism, or because of it? I'd really like to hear an answer to that specific question.
Click to expand...

Russia is no longer communist

Did you not get the memo?
 
I highly doubt there are many people here who would say “Marxism is the best way to run America.”

And BTW, Russia is not really Marxist... just authoritarian and a bit ‘cold war’ thinking.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Russia is no longer communist

Did you not get the memo?
Click to expand...

Apparently, I didn't get it in the same way the American Left did, since they decided to declare war on Russia after it stopped being communist. I guess the Left feel betrayed and want revenge.


OrphanSlug said:
I highly doubt there are many people here who would say “Marxism is the best way to run America.”

And BTW, Russia is not really Marxist... just authoritarian and a bit ‘cold war’ thinking.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should read the Black Lives Matter website, and see their manifesto. It does indeed come across as marxist-leninist. The traditional western economic system is based on free markets, free choice, and merit. Nobody is forced to employ anybody, as is the de facto reality under the marxist-leninist system.
 
sanman said:
Maybe you should read the Black Lives Matter website, and see their manifesto. It does indeed come across as marxist-leninist. The traditional western economic system is based on free markets, free choice, and merit. Nobody is forced to employ anybody, as is the de facto reality under the marxist-leninist system.
Click to expand...

Now you are generalizing, interpreting for your opposition, and reaching while doing so. If you are painting everyone with that brush expect one hell of a response doing the same in return.
 
sanman said:
So I just want to understand from the Marxism-espousing Russia-haters here -- how does your ideology work?

You're claiming that Russia is America's worst foe, and that Marxism is the best way to run America.

So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism, or because of it? I'd really like to hear an answer to that specific question.
Click to expand...

Joe Biden isn't a marxist. I'm not a marxist. I don't know any marxists. This is the same crap pulled by extreme rightwingers during the Obama administration. It's really dumb.

Russia is an adversary because the Soviet Union was an adversary. Putin would love nothing more than to see Khrushchev's promise of "We will bury you!" come to fruition. Trump has already ceded NATO. Trump loves Putin.

Anyone that can't see what's going on is beyond my imagination to understand.
 
The way I think about Russia is simply that an old USSR spy is slowly taking it over.
 
sanman said:
Apparently, I didn't get it in the same way the American Left did, since they decided to declare war on Russia after it stopped being communist. I guess the Left feel betrayed and want revenge.




Maybe you should read the Black Lives Matter website, and see their manifesto. It does indeed come across as marxist-leninist. The traditional western economic system is based on free markets, free choice, and merit. Nobody is forced to employ anybody, as is the de facto reality under the marxist-leninist system.
Click to expand...

My god. You look triggered.

What on earth does a nation's economy have to do with whether or not it is an adversary? Remember that WWII thingy?

And what's with the marxist bull****? For chrissakes, the US economy is to the right of all our traditional allies. Joe Biden isn't Bernie Sanders, and Bernie - whether a marxist or not - just wants the same healthcare system as other industrialized mixed-economy nations. Not marxism. Get real.

Hysteria based on lies.
 
Michael Cole said:
Joe Biden isn't a marxist. I'm not a marxist. I don't know any marxists. This is the same crap pulled by extreme rightwingers during the Obama administration. It's really dumb.
Click to expand...

Joe Biden isn't anything - especially not coherent or having basic mental acuity.

Russia is an adversary because the Soviet Union was an adversary. Putin would love nothing more than to see Khrushchev's promise of "We will bury you!" come to fruition. Trump has already ceded NATO. Trump loves Putin.

Anyone that can't see what's going on is beyond my imagination to understand.
Click to expand...


So "Russia is an adversary because the Soviet Union was an adversary" -- and why was the Soviet Union an adversary? Because they had too many letters in their acronym?
It's because they were marxist-leninist, and trying to export social upheaval and revolution in an effort to re-make the entire world around themselves.
The Soviet Union is now gone, and Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russia is not an exporter of socialist revolution, as the USSR was.

What's amazing is how the American Left, who were the biggest apologists for the Soviets during the Cold War when it was actually on, are now suddenly proclaiming themselves to be the biggest guardians against the Soviet threat - except they prefer to call it the "Russian threat". Patriotism is the Last Refuge of Scoundrels - and the modern Left prove it every day.
 
sanman said:
Joe Biden isn't anything - especially not coherent or having basic mental acuity.




So "Russia is an adversary because the Soviet Union was an adversary" -- and why was the Soviet Union an adversary? Because they had too many letters in their acronym?
It's because they were marxist-leninist, and trying to export social upheaval and revolution in an effort to re-make the entire world around themselves.
The Soviet Union is now gone, and Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russia is not an exporter of socialist revolution, as the USSR was.

What's amazing is how the American Left, who were the biggest apologists for the Soviets during the Cold War when it was actually on, are now suddenly proclaiming themselves to be the biggest guardians against the Soviet threat - except they prefer to call it the "Russian threat". Patriotism is the Last Refuge of Scoundrels - and the modern Left prove it every day.
Click to expand...

...beyond my imagination to understand. Thanks anyway.
 
sanman said:
So I just want to understand from the Marxism-espousing Russia-haters here -- how does your ideology work?

You're claiming that Russia is America's worst foe, and that Marxism is the best way to run America.

So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism, or because of it? I'd really like to hear an answer to that specific question.
Click to expand...

You don’t know what Marxism is.
 
Gaius46 said:
You don’t know what Marxism is.
Click to expand...

Please do educate us, comrade - we had multiple decades of heading your same line from your Soviet patrons.
 
Michael Cole said:
My god. You look triggered.

What on earth does a nation's economy have to do with whether or not it is an adversary? Remember that WWII thingy?

And what's with the marxist bull****? For chrissakes, the US economy is to the right of all our traditional allies. Joe Biden isn't Bernie Sanders, and Bernie - whether a marxist or not - just wants the same healthcare system as other industrialized mixed-economy nations. Not marxism. Get real.

Hysteria based on lies.
Click to expand...

It's the fear that the CEC has been force feeding them lately. And they've been consuming it hook, line, sinker and two feet of pole.
 
armycowboy said:
It's the fear that the CEC has been force feeding them lately. And they've been consuming it hook, line, sinker and two feet of pole.
Click to expand...

They're the only ones who believe this nonsense. It's amazing how failed scare tactics from the 1950s can still live in the minds of Americans. Simply amazing.
 
sanman said:
So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism
Click to expand...

That is indeed what some of them believe:

"I had not myself thought of our enemy as being Communism, I thought of it as primarily being imperialist Russia." - Senator Fullbright

Others actively supported the Soviet Union, and view Russians today as traitors to the left.
 
Michael Cole said:
They're the only ones who believe this nonsense. It's amazing how failed scare tactics from the 1950s can still live in the minds of Americans. Simply amazing.
Click to expand...

Giving credit where it's due, the CEC is good at what they do. Of course they're not dealing with a bunch of intellectual heavyweights.
 
sanman said:
So I just want to understand from the Marxism-espousing Russia-haters here -- how does your ideology work?

You're claiming that Russia is America's worst foe, and that Marxism is the best way to run America.

So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism, or because of it? I'd really like to hear an answer to that specific question.
Click to expand...

1st of all I am confused as to who you are addressing this question to. Is there anyone you know of that supports Marxism? I would like to know. Secondly, I am confused as to what your stance is on Russia. Do you support Russia’s totalitarian regime
 
sanman said:
So I just want to understand from the Marxism-espousing Russia-haters here -- how does your ideology work?

You're claiming that Russia is America's worst foe, and that Marxism is the best way to run America.

So is it your contention that the Soviet Union was America's major adversary in spite of their marxism, or because of it? I'd really like to hear an answer to that specific question.
Click to expand...

Russia is a country with a long history of expansion at the expense of its neighbors. I suspect it will continue to do so, it seems to be Putin's policy. Never ever trust the Russian Gov, communist or not. If you believe Mr Putin wants to play nice you are geopoliticaly naive, and probably should pick up a book of Russian history.
 
AmNat said:
That is indeed what some of them believe:

"I had not myself thought of our enemy as being Communism, I thought of it as primarily being imperialist Russia." - Senator Fullbright

Others actively supported the Soviet Union, and view Russians today as traitors to the left.
Click to expand...

So now you're revising history, to claim that the Cold War was not ideological (Capitalism vs Communism) but was instead an ethnic war (West vs Russians)???

That makes no sense. Russia wasn't always part of the USSR, and the US did indeed have good relations with them before the Cold War.
 
yankintx said:
Russia is a country with a long history of expansion at the expense of its neighbors. I suspect it will continue to do so, it seems to be Putin's policy. Never ever trust the Russian Gov, communist or not. If you believe Mr Putin wants to play nice you are geopoliticaly naive, and probably should pick up a book of Russian history.
Click to expand...

Again, that's crazy - the US had good relations with Moscow before the Cold War. It had good relations with Russia, before it became part of the USSR.

America's Left were strong proponents of having the US end its conflict with the USSR. And now you're pretending otherwise?

You're an historical revisionist, and a bald-faced liar.
 
sanman said:
So now you're revising history, to claim that the Cold War was not ideological (Capitalism vs Communism) but was instead an ethnic war (West vs Russians)???

That makes no sense. Russia wasn't always part of the USSR, and the US did indeed have good relations with them before the Cold War.
Click to expand...

I'm not. But "we're just fighting Russia" was the view of many elites who sympathized with communism but didn't like Stalin.
 
yankintx said:
Russia is a country with a long history of expansion at the expense of its neighbors. I suspect it will continue to do so, it seems to be Putin's policy. Never ever trust the Russian Gov, communist or not. If you believe Mr Putin wants to play nice you are geopoliticaly naive, and probably should pick up a book of Russian history.
Click to expand...
You are casting your pearls before the swine, yankintx. There is a good deal of ignorance regarding Marxism so much so that Karl Marx said that he is not a Marxist given how some people define the term. For sure, Stalinism was neither Marxist nor communist. Rather it was authoritarianism and the so-called Russian Communist Party was a bunch of rogues, each vying for control or merely saving their own necks at the hands of the secret police. Bear in mind that Stalin was not Russian nor was his immediate successor Khrushchev so you need to qualify your notion of Russian government being untrustworthy. Certainly Russia was the leading partner and did indeed dominate the other republics in language and culture. Putin sees the fall of the Soviet Union as a shame and he yearns for the days when Russia was respected. This motivates his presidency and his populist nationalism is at odds with Marxism. It is no wonder that the Communist Party was outlawed in Russia when the Soviet Union fell asunder. Putin is clearly a throwback to a Stalinist style of leadership without the doctrine of mock Marxism or communism. All the while, of course, the USA has remains capitalist.
 
AmNat said:
I'm not. But "we're just fighting Russia" was the view of many elites who sympathized with communism but didn't like Stalin.
Click to expand...

Stalin was a Georgian - Jozeph Djugashvili - who adopted the name Stalin. That's basic history.

Khruschev was a Ukrainian.
Brezhnev was a Ukrainian.
Chernenko was a Ukrianian.

Gorbachev was a Russian - but he doesn't count, since he dismantled the Soviet Union.

All the main Soviet leaders were minorities. Obama, the marxist, was also a minority.


When a minority is trying to assert control over much larger ethnic groups and bend them to his whim, he usually adopts big govt coercion as a strategy and as an ideology.
And in order to justify big govt coercion, they adopt a platform of redistributionism to lure more support. That's basic pyschology.

When you want dumb kids to topple statues of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, you convince them that it's for a greater cause ("revolution") that will lead to them getting more money, jobs, etc. They'll be dumb enough to believe it, and the rest follows from there.
 
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sanman said:
Again, that's crazy - the US had good relations with Moscow before the Cold War. It had good relations with Russia, before it became part of the USSR.

America's Left were strong proponents of having the US end its conflict with the USSR. And now you're pretending otherwise?

You're an historical revisionist, and a bald-faced liar.
Click to expand...

The US and Soviets did not have a good relationship between the War years. I am not sure why you would push that falsehood.

Soviet Union–United States relations - Wikipedia

Feel free to apologize for calling me a revisionist
 
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