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SHould we just open it all up and "just live with it"?

independentusa said:
Trump supporters on this message board argue against any restriction or requirement that government might impose to try and stop the virus, so should we listen to them and just open it all up and just live with it and any problems that creates. That is what Trump is saying. What do you think will be the consequences of such a move and are you willing to accept those consequences as just a part of life?
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In a word...NO.

We would be depending on herd immunity via transmission. The only country with a shot at that is Sweden at 10 million in population and we are not Sweden.

The country with the largest population that tried to pull that off is the UK. To Boris credit he realized what a bombastic mistake that was at a mere 60 million in population and quickly reversed course fast enough to save himself. At 330 million in population just letting the virus run through us hoping to achieve herd immunity via transmission would be suicidal.

What would we do? Close the hospitals to those inflected? Let them die or suffer in the street? Its a ridiculous suggestion made by ridiculous people or unscrupulous people or both.
 
Xilnik said:
While other countries were developing test kits in January, we were failing at developing one that was accurate. Instead of bringing in the private sector to develop kits in February, we waited until March because the virus was going to just disappear.
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This isnt entirely accurate but I agree there is a fair criticism of the CDC botching the first tests. I dont agree with your ascertain that we waited because they expected it to go away on its own. That was merely one possibility that was floated when they were unsure.
While other countries stayed closed in May/June, we had idiots complaining about being stuck at home and ruining our economy who protested at city hall in several cities, bullying our mayors and governors into opening up sooner and not letting the curve finish its downward trajectory.
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The stay at home order was a drastic measure. Reasonable people can disagree how necessary the shutdowns were to what extent. People are entitled to peacefully protest, which is what they did. Im not sure how that can be classified as a mismanagement. Reasonable people can disagree.
We then downplayed the virus, had protests that ignored social distancing and had ~50-75% wear masks, failed to develop any way to do contact tracing to see if any of those at the protests might have exposed others, had campaign rallies for your president that also ignored social distancing but also ignored masks nearly completely, opened up salons, opened up restaurants, opened up bars, and basically pretended the virus was not an issue at venues that have proven to spread it at alarming rates.
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I covered most of this above but I want to touch on the contact tracing thing. Ironically Inwas discussing this topic with 2 freinds of mine earlier today. They were both recently tested. 1 had coughed in a doctors office during a routine visit and the other had to get tested as a precaution his employer is taking. I asked them both what kind of questions they were asked if any. Neither of them were asked anything beyond the basics like their names, etc...
Imo all this testing we are doing is next to useless because not onky do we need to know about which groups are testig positive. We also need to know which groups are testing negative. We also need to know in what precentages in order to form an informed opinion of the risk assment. That isnt being done. Ithink that is a mismanagment on the part of the medical community.
In short, we turned the virus into a partisan issue instead of uniting together to limit exposure, and we had a lot of stubborn people who thought it was overblown, a hoax, or a government ploy to take away people's rights.
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Opinions about this do seem to fall down partisan lines but I dont find that particularly surprising. I think the media coverage is largely responsible for that. Again I dont really see that as a missmanagment issue by the gov.
Look at how well other countries have handled it compared to us. Even countries that had the same issue we had in the beginning have it under control while we watch it spiral out of control again. You are proud of how we handled this in February? You are proud of how we handled it in May/June? You like that we look like a joke to the world?
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Im really unsure what to make of how the virus is effecting other places around the world or even right here within our borders. I dont think we have enough understanding of the nature of the virus to determine why the results are so varied.



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Re: SHould we just open it all up and "just live with it"?

independentusa said:
That is what the GOP governors are doing and as yo can tell it is not working. In fact the governor of Texas has made masks mandatory, but the sheriffs in at least nine counties say no, they will not enforce the order. So no one is exercising any judgement at all since the president has said just live with it and people are going out and catching and passing on the virus. I see from your post that you say best judgement instead of good judgement and that just about sums it up.
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What you really mean is that you don't approve of their judgment and if they won't freely choose to do what you want, then you think the government should force them to comply to your wishes. Even if you're right about the virus, that approach wont work.

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Visbek said:
Someone isn't paying attention.

View attachment 67286586


COVID-19 is spreading at an exponential rate, mostly in the south and southwest. Too many people in those states, including many governors, are tired of social distancing so they aren't taking the necessary steps to dramatically reduce the spread. To make matters worse, Trump has his thumb up his ass, so the federal government is doing the minimum -- if not actively trying to make things worse. Just today, the administration started pushing schools to open in the fall.

Hospitals in hot spots are close to getting overwhelmed. Don't forget, it's not just about beds, it's also about staff, who can also get sick.

And of course, the few policy changes they've made take time to have an impact; neither has the July 4th weekend. We've locked in at least 1-2 more weeks of increased spread.

So no, things are not "moving slow," and the system is on the verge of being overwhelmed in many areas, most importantly in Florida, Texas and Arizona.



Oh, sweetie.

The economy is screwed no matter what, as we can see with Sweden. They did a minimal lockdown, and their economy got socked anyway.

And of course, economic downturns actually wind up decreasing mortality.
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Well my point was assuming social distancing. We got lax, sure. But I think with good social distancing we can stay open except for hot spots. SD should be strongly encouraged yes.
 
swing_voter said:
America 404 deaths per million population


Korea 6



Korea checked the virus and so they didn't shut down. Their economy never stopped and they didn't pay out $3 trillion dollars in stimulus money.

Korea is our ally, we could've just asked them to tell us about how they were planning on dealing with the virus and they would've told us.


It's a great tragedy that we handled COVID19 so poorly.
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Not defending the way our situation was handled, but Korea 'ordered self isolation' People were forced to stay home. Their people complied. Our people? Not so much.
 
independentusa said:
Trump supporters on this message board argue against any restriction or requirement that government might impose to try and stop the virus, so should we listen to them and just open it all up and just live with it and any problems that creates. That is what Trump is saying. What do you think will be the consequences of such a move and are you willing to accept those consequences as just a part of life?
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Trump supporters? Lefties here defended the rampaging of maskless rioters across the nation. So factually speaking everyone here has argued against the restriction.
 
Jonsa said:
Its absolutely incredible to watch the debate in america in the midst of the global pandemic.
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Our current leaders are a realestate con man and crook and 2 massive TV/radio liars. The rest of the world shouldn't expect anything from the United States at the moment.

If our citizens are mad enough yet at our confederates then things will get back to normal in January.
 
trouble13 said:
What about the prochoice people who adamently believe in a persons bodily autonomy?
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first, are you pro life?


second, when a woman makes a decision for herself (which is none of my business) it doesn't domino and cause > 1/2 million humans to die before their time in 4 months during a pandemic.




that's the stupid part. all we had to do was hunker down from the beginning and a **** load of people would still be alive. the obvious and logical action was just a bridge too far for those that immediately made common sense a wedge/political issue.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Our current leaders are a realestate con man and crook and 2 massive TV/radio liars. The rest of the world shouldn't expect anything from the United States at the moment.

If our citizens are mad enough yet at our confederates then things will get back to normal in January.
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Unfortunately, it doesn’t.

The incompetence, corruption and moral decadence of this crowd is a stain on American honor that may never be erased.
 
Lisa said:
We are not a direct democracy so we do not make policy decsion via the ballot box.
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Tell that to the restaurant owner who's drowning right now.


There comes a certain point...a recognition of inevitability...that staying confined in a box for safety is no longer ideal, or justifiable. And we (used to?) live in a country where individuals have (had?) the freedom to make those decisions for ourselves.
 
TomFitz said:
Unfortunately, it doesn’t.

The incompetence, corruption and moral decadence of this crowd is a stain on American honor that may never be erased.
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sure it will. they'll eventually die (just like the generals and politicians and supporters of the Confederacy after the Civil War).

we're just not quite far enough away from it. at some point the Confederacy and all it stands for will be like the Middle Ages to us.
 
independentusa said:
Trump supporters on this message board argue against any restriction or requirement that government might impose to try and stop the virus, so should we listen to them and just open it all up and just live with it and any problems that creates. That is what Trump is saying. What do you think will be the consequences of such a move and are you willing to accept those consequences as just a part of life?
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Living with the virus is inevitable.

Just as we have lived with innumerable virus over the ages, we will, already are, living with Covid.

You can thank Fauci and the miscreants in government for doing their gain of function experiments.
 
Jonsa said:
Er, that was two month ago. And yes we have a handle on it. your rate of infection is more than 1000% (one thousand) times ours.

But nice try.
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We have more people. :lamo
 
OrphanSlug said:
How many sick or dead people are you guys aiming for?
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Keep in mind that the MAJORITY that get the virus has NO symptoms at all(wink)
 
Re: SHould we just open it all up and "just live with it"?

trouble13 said:
What you really mean is that you don't approve of their judgment and if they won't freely choose to do what you want, then you think the government should force them to comply to your wishes. Even if you're right about the virus, that approach wont work.

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You , like Trumpsters do not believe in science, and feel like Trump that you know better and your judgement is superior to those who follow science. So no, I do not believe that many people's judgement is good, it is like Trump, self centered. And it is not my wishes, but the wishes of a majority of Americans who do believe in science and do not want things opened back up. I find it interesting reading stuff on thee web, people are not afraid of the virus until they or one of their own catch it.
 
CaughtInThe said:
first, are you pro life?
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What if I was, dont prolife people have the right to an opinion? Not that its any of your buisiness I am not prolife. I believe people have the right to be selfish.

second, when a woman makes a decision for herself (which is none of my business) it doesn't domino and cause > 1/2 million humans to die before their time in 4 months during a pandemic.
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Your right its none of your buisiness and neither is this.



that's the stupid part. all we had to do was hunker down from the beginning and a **** load of people would still be alive. the obvious and logical action was just a bridge too far for those that immediately made common sense a wedge/political issue.
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According to the experts, back in march, they claimed it did not matter what we did. We could not avoid 2.2 million deaths. The only thing we could hope to do is our best to not overwhelm the hospitals by elongating the rate people got infected. We have gone from it being a 2 week lockdown to a 4 month long one and still counting.




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independentusa said:
Trump supporters on this message board argue against any restriction or requirement that government might impose to try and stop the virus, so should we listen to them and just open it all up and just live with it and any problems that creates. That is what Trump is saying. What do you think will be the consequences of such a move and are you willing to accept those consequences as just a part of life?
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No. We don't have the healthcare capacity. Upgrading infrastructure could include upgrading healthcare infrastructure.
 
independentusa said:
Trump supporters on this message board argue against any restriction or requirement that government might impose to try and stop the virus, so should we listen to them and just open it all up and just live with it and any problems that creates. That is what Trump is saying. What do you think will be the consequences of such a move and are you willing to accept those consequences as just a part of life?
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Ummmmmmmm, the virus is different in every state. Therefore, it is up to the governors to decide what to do in their state. Take Hawaii for example. They have few cases and few deaths. Do they really need the federal government ordering them into total lockdown mode? Since the virus is the worst in larger (blue) cities should Trump have the power to only lockdown large cities which are Democratically controlled? He would be accused in a split second of using his power of the presidency to attack Democrats.
 
trouble13 said:
What if I was, dont prolife people have the right to an opinion? Not that its any of your buisiness I am not prolife. I believe people have the right to be selfish.


Your right its none of your buisiness and neither is this.




According to the experts, back in march, they claimed it did not matter what we did. We could not avoid 2.2 million deaths. The only thing we could hope to do is our best to not overwhelm the hospitals by elongating the rate people got infected. We have gone from it being a 2 week lockdown to a 4 month long one and still counting.




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and yet the medical community has already (in only 4 months) come up with ways to keep people alive once they are infected. it's almost like that bothers the people who wanted to just let tons of Americans to die up front.
 
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