• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:132]Black Lives Matter protester shot driver in Provo, Utah

jimbo said:
Your right to protest does not extend to a right to protest illegally. Nor does it extend to threatening people.

The so called dangerous weapon driver was the one acting legally.
Click to expand...

Driving through a crowd of people is legal now?
 
apdst said:
Blocking the road, stopping vehicles and attacking them is legal?
Click to expand...


So one group was creating a public disturbance and one guy decided to use a deadly weapon on that group
 
OpportunityCost said:
Protesting isn't abnormal behavior. Standing in the middle of streets and attacking vehicles if they come near most certainly IS abnormal behavior; its criminal behavior as a point of fact. It should also be said that road blocking protests tend to move, there are few warnings, and they tend to swarm cars so they cant turn around.
Click to expand...
Got a source that shows crowds approaching a driver to attack them? Everything I've seen, including the OP, it is clear that these drivers made a conscious choice to try to push the crowd aside with their vehicle. They weren't hunted down while minding their own business. They literally inserted themselves into the situation. As I said before, the driver has all the power. If you stop at a safe distance, pull a u-turn and go around the block, no one is going to try to swarm you. And people on foot wouldn't be able to catch you if they tried. I'm sure the guy in the OP was not the only driver who tried to use that street on that day. SOMEHOW the others managed to escape the dangerous mob without incident. If I'm wrong in my explanation, maybe you can tell me what you think they did differently?

OpportunityCost said:
Its not escalating to attempt to go about your day and get from point A to point B to do things you want to do because a bunch of idiots have decided to engage in criminal behavior.
Click to expand...
I don't care what you're trying to do. Driving your 2-ton vehicle into a crowd is escalation because it puts dozens of people at risk of injury or death. Protesting is not criminal, and even if it was that does not excuse assaulting them with your vehicle.

OpportunityCost said:
Last, don't make crappy accusations, I am not looking for excuses, I am telling you what will happen if these types of incidents continue to happen.
Click to expand...
I apologize for the accusation. In hindsight it was unnecessarily personal.

OpportunityCost said:
People will not put their lives at risk over the criminal behavior of others.
Click to expand...
Great! I'm glad we agree that drivers will learn to act more responsibly to avoid running over protesters.
 
Elmo said:
Got a source that shows crowds approaching a driver to attack them? Everything I've seen, including the OP, it is clear that these drivers made a conscious choice to try to push the crowd aside with their vehicle. They weren't hunted down while minding their own business. They literally inserted themselves into the situation. As I said before, the driver has all the power. If you stop at a safe distance, pull a u-turn and go around the block, no one is going to try to swarm you. And people on foot wouldn't be able to catch you if they tried. I'm sure the guy in the OP was not the only driver who tried to use that street on that day. SOMEHOW the others managed to escape the dangerous mob without incident. If I'm wrong in my explanation, maybe you can tell me what you think they did differently?


I don't care what you're trying to do. Driving your 2-ton vehicle into a crowd is escalation because it puts dozens of people at risk of injury or death. Protesting is not criminal, and even if it was that does not excuse assaulting them with your vehicle.


I apologize for the accusation. In hindsight it was unnecessarily personal.


Great! I'm glad we agree that drivers will learn to act more responsibly to avoid running over protesters.
Click to expand...

There's a video in the OP.
 
apdst said:
There's a video in the OP.
Click to expand...

Yes, and in every single one of those videos, the driver is driving INTO the crowd. The driver is always the one initiating contact with the protesters. The crowd is not chasing and swarming innocent drivers minding their own business. In fact, in those videos you can even see cars that turn away from the crowd are completely unmolested.
 
Elmo said:
Yes, and in every single one of those videos, the driver is driving INTO the crowd. The driver is always the one initiating contact with the protesters. The crowd is not chasing and swarming innocent drivers minding their own business. In fact, in those videos you can even see cars that turn away from the crowd are completely unmolested.
Click to expand...

Then they attackdd him and shot him. There's no way you can defend this horse****.
 
apdst said:
Then they attackdd him and shot him. There's no way you can defend this horse****.
Click to expand...

No he came at them with a deadly weapon. Self defense all the way. Thanks god for the 2A, right?
 
apdst said:
Then they attackdd him and shot him. There's no way you can defend this horse****.
Click to expand...

the one thing this driver did that was better than the murderous driver in charlottesville was to contact the pedestrian protesters at a slower rate of speed
 
justabubba said:
the one thing this driver did that was better than the murderous driver in charlottesville was to contact the pedestrian protesters at a slower rate of speed
Click to expand...

He won't make that mistake again.
 
apdst said:
Then they attackdd him and shot him. There's no way you can defend this horse****.
Click to expand...

Yes that's true, and in post #89 I said the shooting was unjustified. I'm glad the shooter is in custody and I'm confident he'll face justice. Here's the sequence of events as I see it:

1. The driver sees a crowd. He chooses to drive into that crowd. This is an aggressive escalation with dangerous weapon (his vehicle). It was stupid, and there were clearly less stupid options he could have taken.
2. The crowd becomes angry, but note that it starts off pretty mild and becomes worse after he knocks several people out of the way with his vehicle. To be clear, it was wrong for the crowd to attack his car, but at first they were just matching the driver's own escalation. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I can't really blame them for the anger/fear.
3. The gun is fired. A more extreme escalation with a more deadly weapon. Clearly wrong and hopefully punished in the near future. But you can't blame the whole crowd for the actions of the shooter.

Both driver and protesters were at fault, but you seem to only blame one side.
 
SCrider said:
No he came at them with a deadly weapon. Self defense all the way. Thanks god for the 2A, right?
Click to expand...

They had no business blocking the street. There's no way you'll justify the shooting.
 
apdst said:
They shouldn't have been blocking the street. It's illegal.
Click to expand...

thought you subscribed to the provisions found within the US Constitution, including the right to peaceful protest
 
justabubba said:
thought you subscribed to the provisions found within the US Constitution, including the right to peaceful protest
Click to expand...

This wasn't a peaceful protest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom