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I Support Our Law Enforcement Officers. This Has Got To Stop.

mike2810 said:
Most likely. Since it will take politicians (law makers) to really make the change. So far they have failed.

imo, the majority of LEO's are good hard working people.
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I agree that most of them are.

Until we get passed the point where a cop can assume I am a threat because of the color of my skin, I think I am just as justified for assuming they are all bad until after an interaction.

Fairs fair, right?
 
Drowning Man said:
Entitled is believing that there is any group in society that is immune to someone disagreeing with them... You think LEO's are entitled.
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Wrong, Entitlement is thinking you deserve something you don't. The belief that you are inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. LEO's have authority. You don't. That doesn't make them entitled. That means they have official powers over you in certain situations.

If you are given a command to comply, you either refuse and argue, or you comply. Which one do you think will get an aggressive response?
 
Drowning Man said:
It's funny...when you look at a bunch of excessive force videos, the common denominator that you see is to somehow blame the victim of the excessive force. I see bad cops.
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And thats all you see because you think you have a right to do what ever you want. Thats entitlement.
 
D_NATURED said:
The website you linked says that blacks are twice as likely to be killed by police. I'm not sure you read it because the data, in no way, proves what you think it does.
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You are more than welcome to post what you found, quote it and link it>
 
Condor060 said:
Wrong, Entitlement is thinking you deserve something you don't. The belief that you are inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. LEO's have authority. You don't. That doesn't make them entitled. That means they have official powers over you in certain situations.
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Like the power to beat someone up for arguing with you?
 
Condor060 said:
And thats all you see because you think you have a right to do what ever you want. Thats entitlement.
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Again, you're projecting. You really need to ground yourself and your arguments in reality to be effective.

EXCESSIVE Force isn't simply the force required to get someone to comply, it is EXCESSIVE. You want to blame the victim. EXCESSIVE force isn't the fault of the victim, no matter what the victim did. It is literally force above and beyond what is necessary to get the subject to comply and is therefore the sign of a bad cop...not something wrong with the victim of that EXCESSIVE force.
 
bullseyelqcs said:
I agree that most of them are.

Until we get passed the point where a cop can assume I am a threat because of the color of my skin, I think I am just as justified for assuming they are all bad until after an interaction.

Fairs fair, right?
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What you stated I bet goes beyond your interaction with law enforcement. You must have bad experiences with most businesses.
 
Condor060 said:
So you got cornered and now you can't find a single positive thing Demcorats have done for blacks in the last 50 years? Just one post ago you had plenty of blame. Now you can't defend it?

Typical
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I never mentioned political party. It really shows how un American you actually are that you care more about scoring political points than the welfare of your fellow citizens. Typical indeed.


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Condor060 said:
When you actually read the stats of Police killings of unarmed blacks and whites, give me a heads up. I don't fall for media induced rants. Feel free to read the OP I provided with actual links to the actual data.

Then we can have a discussion.
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Why do you believe someone has to die for there to be an injustice committed against them?


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bullseyelqcs said:
Defunding police departments would be ridiculous. That said, putting it on the table as part of the negotiation to coerce change isnt an inherently bad idea. Fact of the matter is that extreme measures need to be taken to get these departments to understand that the status quo is no longer going to be accepted.

Im not looking for perfect....Im looking for just. We keep looking at the stats for people killed by cops.....but that says nothing in regards to unjustified ass whoopings that occur as well. How many cops in those instances were brought up on charges? We wont know, will we?

Neither is assuming that because someone is black, they are more likely to be guilty of something....but that is police policy 101, now isnt it? And not only that, but it is defense method 101 of those who try to explain this problem away. As you said, you get what you give. When those that are sworn to protect and serve openly admit they are not administering that aspect of things equally, how do they expect those that they are shortchanging to react?

Simple reality is that its fair to demonize not only a bad cop, but the allegedly good one who stands there and watches a bad cop do bad ****.....whats that quote about bad things and good people standing and watching?

**** em. Simple.

And yet there are still those claiming there is nothing at all wrong.

In some ways, sure. If they dont have the trust of those they are policing, and seem to want to do nothing to gain that trust back, what is the use of having them?

Quote for me where I said anything like that?
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So the media claims as well as claims here have turned from unarmed killings of blacks to assault on blacks. Why? Because we have the data to disprove these claims.

How many videos do you think are on youtube about excessive force against blacks? Hundreds, thousands? I am not arguing with the fact that excessive force exist. I am arguing about the claims of excessive force without providing all the facts.

What do you think you might find on a civilian provided video on excessive force? These aren't cops uploading videos to their youtube accounts? What seems to be the common denominator? NON COMPLIANCE.

Why was Floyd drug out of the car and taken to the street
Non compliance

Why were 11 unarmed blacks **** down in 2019
non Compliance

I am not stating they deserved to die. I am stating what the most common denominator to physical violence between a cop and an approached civilian is.

You have a host of videos at your disposal to chose from. You look through the ones that are more than 3 seconds long, and tell me what you find.
 
Drowning Man said:
Again, you're projecting. You really need to ground yourself and your arguments in reality to be effective.

EXCESSIVE Force isn't simply the force required to get someone to comply, it is EXCESSIVE. You want to blame the victim. EXCESSIVE force isn't the fault of the victim, no matter what the victim did. It is literally force above and beyond what is necessary to get the subject to comply and is therefore the sign of a bad cop...not something wrong with the victim of that EXCESSIVE force.
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Nope, Excessive force is claimed by thousands of people who think being taken to the ground and handcuffed is excessive force when they refused to comply. Or drug out of a car, or tazed, or anything they deem is excessive force.

Not the actual definition.
 
Condor060 said:
Nope, Excessive force is claimed by thousands of people who think being taken to the ground and handcuffed is excessive force when they refused to comply. Or drug out of a car, or tazed, or anything they deem is excessive force.

Not the actual definition.
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Er...yes it is. Perhaps you need a dictionary to go along with whatever law books you didn't read. What you are now talking about is alleged or disputed excessive force. You claimed you were watching videos of EXCESSIVE force. I can understand what you're saying a little bit better if you say "alleged". But not if they were actually videos of excessive force.
 
Condor060 said:
Nope, like the power to restrain or cuff you for refusing a lawful order because you want to argue about it.
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Again, that would be refusing to comply. Arguing, as you stated before, is NOT reason to use force.
 
This is long but it shows what happens when someone tries to file a complaint against an officer in some places...

 
pocket aces said:
I never mentioned political party. It really shows how un American you actually are that you care more about scoring political points than the welfare of your fellow citizens. Typical indeed.


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No, you said

pocket aces said:
Maybe if people like you wouldn't have turned your back on the concerns black people have been bringing up concerning police brutality for more than 50 years we wouldn't be where we are now.
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Are you now defining me as the only person on the planet that could make this change or were you referencing Republicans? People like me?

Since blacks vote 90% for Democrats, I responded with a question about what they have done in the last 50 years.

All you have done is run from the question. If you had an answer you would have copied and pasted it all over the place. The fact that you need to deflect answers the question for you.
 
BlueTex said:
This is long but it shows what happens when someone tries to file a complaint against an officer in some places...

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Yup...it's a systemic problem.
 
Drowning Man said:
Er...yes it is. Perhaps you need a dictionary to go along with whatever law books you didn't read. What you are now talking about is alleged or disputed excessive force. You claimed you were watching videos of EXCESSIVE force. I can understand what you're saying a little bit better if you say "alleged". But not if they were actually videos of excessive force.
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Maybe if you took the time to read more than one sentence, you wouldn't take my claim out of context. I gave a complete run down of excessive force video claims and what their common denominators were.

But feel free to just cherry pick what works for your response.
 
mike2810 said:
Based on what you said about what you assume when you encounter a LEO. How many bad encounters have you had?
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I never said I actually think it, I said asked if it would be fair.

It is departmental policy in lots of places to profile. Dont try to claim its not. The basis of my question was why is that fair, but me assuming all cops are bad would somehow be beyond the pale?

Ive had a a couple not so pleasant run ins with cops in my life. Ive also had some really good ones.

Its cop dependent, obviously.
 
Condor060 said:
I don't. You are taking me out of context
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You are the one blathering about your statistics about cops killing unarmed blacks. Don’t try to lie and say you are not using that info to downplay blacks who have been speaking of the issue of police mistreatment for decades.


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Condor060 said:
Maybe if you took the time to read more than one sentence, you wouldn't take my claim out of context. I gave a complete run down of excessive force video claims and what their common denominators were.

But feel free to just cherry pick what works for your response.
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Perhaps you should be more clear. It looks to me like you were trying to lick some boots and justify excessive force in general as being the victim's fault.

Compliance should only be a factor in terms of if force was warranted at all.

Here, for example, compliance had nothing to do with it:

 
Condor060 said:
So you consider post on DP for discussion whining or only for threads you don't agree with? I noticed you didn't have anything constructive to add. Which makes you post the actual whine.
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If so say so. A much better example of whining is the OP.
 
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