Declassified calls show Flynn discussing sanctions with Russian envoy

Rogue Valley · May 30, 2020

Declassified calls show Flynn discussing sanctions with Russian envoy

Michael Flynn.

5/29/20
WASHINGTON — In an extraordinary disclosure of U.S. intelligence materials, Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe released newly declassified records on Friday of intercepted calls between former national security adviser Michael Flynn and former Russian Ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak. The detailed call summaries from December 2016, in the weeks before President Donald Trump took office, offer the clearest public evidence to date that Flynn indeed discussed sanctions specifically during their calls, despite Flynn telling both the FBI and Vice President Mike Pence that they did not. “As a result of lying to both the FBI and the vice president, Flynn posed a severe counterintelligence risk because the Russians knew the real contents of Flynn’s communications and that he lied about them to the some of the most senior officials in the U.S. government,” House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff said in response to the release of the records.The records were produced by the FBI, former officials said. The FBI monitored the conversations under the authority of a national security court warrant to eavesdrop on the communications of Kislyak as part of its routine counterintelligence mission, former officials said.

These transcripts confirm pretty much everything Mueller accused Flynn of doing, and they debunk much of what Trump has said about Flynn. The transcripts corroborate Flynn's guilty plea and further prove that he lied to the FBI about his Russian calls. Flynn did discuss sanctions with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Later, he lied to the FBI and VP Pence about those discussions. Flynn was secretly undercutting the US policy of a sitting president, Barack Obama.

Related: ‘This is Exactly What Collusion Looks Like’

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Another "perfect" call.

What is most troubling about this case is that the Attoreny General finds it admirable that American foreign policy was undermined by private, shadow diplomacy that sought to reward Russia for interfering in our elections.

For Trump's friends, everything; for his enemies, the force of law.

Athanasius68 · May 30, 2020

Rogue Valley said:
Declassified calls show Flynn discussing sanctions with Russian envoy

Michael Flynn.

These transcripts confirm pretty much everything Mueller accused Flynn of doing, and they debunk much of what Trump has said about Flynn. The transcripts corroborate Flynn's guilty plea and further prove that he lied to the FBI about his Russian calls. Flynn did discuss sanctions with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Later, he lied to the FBI and VP Pence about those discussions. Flynn was secretly undercutting the US policy of a sitting president, Barack Obama.

Related: ‘This is Exactly What Collusion Looks Like’

What the transcripts show is that there was no national security or criminal threat in the conversation.
There was no reason to interview Flynn.
Whatever he told the FBI was not "material" to the investigation.
The law for which he was charged requires any false statement to be "material."
As such, it would be difficult to sustain a prosecution.
Mr. Barr was correct to drop charges.

Athanasius68 · May 30, 2020

j brown's body said:
Another "perfect" call.

What is most troubling about this case is that the Attoreny General finds it admirable that American foreign policy was undermined by private, shadow diplomacy that sought to reward Russia for interfering in our elections.

For Trump's friends, everything; for his enemies, the force of law.

Actually, the facts show none of this.

cabse5 · May 30, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
What the transcripts show is that there was no national security or criminal threat in the conversation.
There was no reason to interview Flynn.
Whatever he told the FBI was not "material" to the investigation.
The law for which he was charged requires any false statement to be "material."
As such, it would be difficult to sustain a prosecution.
Mr. Barr was correct to drop charges.

This is correct. Why did the FBI need to interview Flynn to clarify anything since they already had the transcript of the legal phone call between Kisliak and Flynn? In fact, how is it even possible the FBI didn't already have a transcript of the phone call between Kisliak and Flynn for them to specifically ask about conversations about Russian sanctions? How did the FBI know the two talked about sanctions if the FBI didn't already have the transcript of the call? I can just imagine this question put to Flynn, 'Since Russia interfered with the 2016 election, did you discuss sanctions with Russia?'...(gotcha)

Id like to read a transcript of that questioning of Flynn by the FBI.

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Actually, the facts show none of this.

They discussed the sanctions and Russia not responding to them. Flynn characterizes them as an attack on Russia and on Trump. He takes the side of the enemy.

Grim17 · May 30, 2020

cabse5 said:
This is correct. Why did the FBI need to interview Flynn to clarify anything since they already had the transcript of the legal phone call between Kisliak and Flynn?

Here's why:

Since Flynn hadn't committed a crime, the interview was designed to create a crime to charge him with.

.

Athanasius68 · May 30, 2020

j brown's body said:
They discussed the sanctions and Russia not responding to them. Flynn characterizes them as an attack on Russia and on Trump. He takes the side of the enemy.

Actually, Flynn is asked about the Trump team thinking on the sanctions. Flynn responds that Russia should not overreact. It is mysterious why this ought be considered "an attack on America" and not an answer one would reasonably expect any American to give.

jamesbyoung · May 30, 2020

Why not, OP? It's the lying that is wrong.

Lutherf · May 30, 2020

It never ceases to amaze me that so many who have discussed this matter both before and since the release of the call transcript have described Flynn's action as being some form of undermining the Obama sanctions. It was very much unlikely that they did any such thing based on reporting prior to the release of these transcripts and now, with their release, we can see that there is really only one way that Flynn's response to Kislyak (Remember, Kislyak reached out to Flynn, not the other way around) could have been contrary to Obama administration goals and that is if the Obama administration was planning to ruin relations with Russia for the purpose of making the Trump administration policy more difficult.

The conversations with Kislyak were ALL couched in the idea that the US and Russia would need to work together to deal with Middle East violence. Everything that was discussed, including a possible Russian response to sanctions, was tied to the goal of defeating a common enemy in Syria and other parts of the ME.

Grim17 · May 30, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Actually, Flynn is asked about the Trump team thinking on the sanctions. Flynn responds that Russia should not overreact. It is mysterious why this ought be considered "an attack on America" and not an answer one would reasonably expect any American to give.

Exactly... Since when did trying to prevent a bad situation from escalating become "an attack on America"?

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Actually, Flynn is asked about the Trump team thinking on the sanctions. Flynn responds that Russia should not overreact. It is mysterious why this ought be considered "an attack on America" and not an answer one would reasonably expect any American to give.

KIS LY AK: And I just wanted to tel I you that we found that these actions have targeted not only against Russia, but also against the president elect.

FLYNN: yeah, yeah

KISL YAK: and and with all our rights to responds we have decided not to act now because, its because people are dissatisfied with the lost of elections and, and its very deplorable. So, so I just wanted to let you know that our conversation was taken with weight. And also …

From before Day One Mike Flynn Made It Russia and Trump Versus Democrats | emptywheel

The Russian sounds like he is part of the Trump campaign. Here, he is telling Flynn that the sanctions are part if an attack on Russia and an attack in Trump.

You may recall that, according to a bi-partusan senate report, Russia interfered in our elections to help elect Trump.

Here, a private citizen is cozying up to a representative of that country and finding common cause against anyone who wants to punish Russia for that interference..

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Grim17 said:
Exactly... Since when did trying to prevent a bad situation from escalating become "an attack on America"?

The attack on America had already occurred. Here, Flynn is signaling that the beneficiary of that attack will not punish the attacker.

Quite simply, it was "collusion."

cabse5 · May 30, 2020

j brown's body said:
From before Day One Mike Flynn Made It Russia and Trump Versus Democrats | emptywheel

The Russian sounds like he is part of the Trump campaign. Here, he is telling Flynn that the sanctions are part if an attack on Russia and an attack in Trump.

You may recall that, according to a bi-partusan senate report, Russia interfered in our elections to help elect Trump.

Here, a private citizen is cozying up to a representative of that country and finding common cause against anyone who wants to punish Russia for that interference..

Prove the interference.CrowdStrike President Under Oath: No Proof of Russia DNC Hack | RealClearPolitics

chuckiechan · May 30, 2020

Rogue Valley said:
Declassified calls show Flynn discussing sanctions with Russian envoy

Michael Flynn.

These transcripts confirm pretty much everything Mueller accused Flynn of doing, and they debunk much of what Trump has said about Flynn. The transcripts corroborate Flynn's guilty plea and further prove that he lied to the FBI about his Russian calls. Flynn did discuss sanctions with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Later, he lied to the FBI and VP Pence about those discussions. Flynn was secretly undercutting the US policy of a sitting president, Barack Obama.

Related: ‘This is Exactly What Collusion Looks Like’

Do you want future National Security Advisors to be forbidden to have discussions with their counterparts in other countries during transition? It is not possible to violate the logan act when you are the appointed NSA in the incoming administration.

The Logan act was designed in the days before reliable communications to prevent unauthorized people from presenting themselves as emissaries of the USA when they were not.

Flynn did not lie. He was pressured plead guilty as part of a plea bargain to save his family. Not the same thing. Plea deals come and go. The prisons are chock full of people who pleaded guilty to avoid longer sentences. Flynn was framed by the FBI, and they threatened to destroy members of his family if he didn’t cooperate.

With an FBI like Mueller’s Mafia, I still can’t see how people get the principles of US justice so wrong. Chinese justice might be a better fit for those cool with these tactics !

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

chuckiechan said:
Do you want future National Security Advisors to be forbidden to have discussions with their counterparts in other countries? It is not possible to violate the logan act when you are the appointed NSA in the incoming administration.

The Logan act was designed in the days before reliable communications to prevent unauthorized people to present themselves as emissaries of the USA when they were not.

Flynn did not lie. He plead guilty to it as part of a plea bargain. Not the same thing. Plea deals come and go. The prisons are chock full of people who pleaded guilty to weak cases to avoid longer sentences. Flynn was framed by the FBI, and they threatened to destroy members of his family if he didn’t cooperate.

With an FBI like Mueller’s Mafia, I still can’t see how people get the principles of US justice so wrong. Chinese justice might be a better fit for those cool with these tactics !

This is kind of funny, really because it further makes the sordid point that the future National Security Advisor found common cause with a representative of a country that had attacked us, and they discuss how his own government is their common enemy.

Its no wonder the judge thought that Flynn might have committed treason.

Mr Person · May 30, 2020

Lutherf said:
It never ceases to amaze me that so many who have discussed this matter both before and since the release of the call transcript have described Flynn's action as being some form of undermining the Obama sanctions. It was very much unlikely that they did any such thing based on reporting prior to the release of these transcripts and now, with their release, we can see that there is really only one way that Flynn's response to Kislyak (Remember, Kislyak reached out to Flynn, not the other way around) could have been contrary to Obama administration goals and that is if the Obama administration was planning to ruin relations with Russia for the purpose of making the Trump administration policy more difficult.

The conversations with Kislyak were ALL couched in the idea that the US and Russia would need to work together to deal with Middle East violence. Everything that was discussed, including a possible Russian response to sanctions, was tied to the goal of defeating a common enemy in Syria and other parts of the ME.

And now he's building conspiracy theories into his conspiracy theories.

:roll:

Again, Lutherf, you aren't fooling anyone but yourself. Take it to The Cult where such idiocy belongs.

Lutherf · May 30, 2020

Mr Person said:
And now he's building conspiracy theories into his conspiracy theories.

:roll:

Again, Lutherf, you aren't fooling anyone but yourself. Take it to The Cult where such idiocy belongs.

As one of the smartest and most articulate members of this forum you, of all people, should be able to explain to me how anything Flynn said to Kislyak could have undermined the intent of Obama's sanctions.

Athanasius68 · May 30, 2020

j brown's body said:
From before Day One Mike Flynn Made It Russia and Trump Versus Democrats | emptywheel

The Russian sounds like he is part of the Trump campaign. Here, he is telling Flynn that the sanctions are part if an attack on Russia and an attack in Trump.

You may recall that, according to a bi-partusan senate report, Russia interfered in our elections to help elect Trump.

Here, a private citizen is cozying up to a representative of that country and finding common cause against anyone who wants to punish Russia for that interference..

It sounds more like Kisylak is saying that the sanctions were also an trying to box the Trump folks in.

Athanasius68 · May 30, 2020

Mr Person said:
And now he's building conspiracy theories into his conspiracy theories.

:roll:

Again, Lutherf, you aren't fooling anyone but yourself. Take it to The Cult where such idiocy belongs.

The conspiracy theory was the one that said the Trump campaign had conspired with Russia to fix the 2016 election.
And that Flynn was involved.
That conspiracy theory has been dismantled. However, people still cling to it.

Grim17 · May 30, 2020

j brown's body said:
The attack on America had already occurred. Here, Flynn is signaling that the beneficiary of that attack will not punish the attacker.

Quite simply, it was "collusion."

The transcripts don't agree, the Mueller Report doesn't agree, and every known fact doesn't agree.... Other than that, you were spot on.

LMAO

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Grim17 said:
The transcripts don't agree, the Mueller Report doesn't agree, and every known fact doesn't agree.... Other than that, you were spot on.

LMAO

I have quoted from the transcripts to support my point.

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
The conspiracy theory was the one that said the Trump campaign had conspired with Russia to fix the 2016 election.
And that Flynn was involved.
That conspiracy theory has been dismantled. However, people still cling to it.

The Mueller Report identified links between Russia and the Trump campaign.

We see collusion in the Flynn transcripts.

j brown's body · May 30, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
It sounds more like Kisylak is saying that the sanctions were also an trying to box the Trump folks in.

Flynn seems to agree, making it difficult for Trump to reward Russia for interfering in our electoral process to elect him.

Grim17 · May 30, 2020

j brown's body said:
I have quoted from the transcripts to support my point.

TDS makes people believe whatever feeds their hatred, as you demonstrate here daily.

There was no Russian collusion... That conspiracy theory has long been debunked.

Declassified calls show Flynn discussing sanctions with Russian envoy

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