Can anyone on this forum give me a logical reason why

[dairyair]

Paper ballots can be lost.
Why not vote by computer and have the paper ballot printed?

A dual system of check and balance.

 

[Cardinal]

Further can you give me a good logical reason why we should not have paper ballots that can be recounted. Any computer voting machine can be hacked.

Call McConnell's office and tell him that. His secretary will laugh at you and hang up.

 

[Moon]

1.)Voters have already proved their right to vote when they registered.

2.) If you had even the most basic understanding of statistics and process control you would know that having 10 faults in a process in the hundreds of millions of votes cast is statisical noise that cannot possibly be accurately addressed because of trying to chase those statistical fliers will do far more harm to the process than just ignoring them until there is a pattern developed that can be understood. Voting is a right so you cannot complicate the process and deprive millions of people their constitutional right to vote just to chase a partisan claim of vote fraid that has never been supported empirically.

3.) If you did want photo voter ID cards then they would have to be issued free of charge by the state at the time of voter registration with no effort needed on the part of voters because making voters get a photo ID on their own time and at their own cost is nothing more than a Jim Crow law. in the goal of deying pople to vote who would not be voting for Republicans who have supported this nonsense claim for the past 20 years. Voter ID cards are nothing less than a modern version of a poll tax that was declared unconstitutional 50 years ago. People seeking to deprive others of their right to vote should forfeit their voting rights in the process.

4.) All voting should be done with a paper ballot and an indelible pen and tabulated in an offline scanner that cannot be hacked and has multiple backup layers of protections. I support mail-in ballots for everyone who is a registered voter.

How do you verify that the person who registered is in fact the person actually voting?

 

[Moon]

Under the voter ID logic, a voter who lost their license and yet to receive a replacement before the election wouldn't be eligible to vote. Am I correct? You didn't really respond to my point, you just ignored it.

They could vote using a provisional ballot.

 

[BrotherFease]

Are there states that don't require IDs to register?
IDs are not required when showing up at a polling place?

I don't know where you live, but here in NY, we have no ID laws.

When you show up to your assigned precinct, you tell the poll worker your name and street you live on. The poll worker finds your name and address, and you put down your signature and get a ballot. If you're caught committing voter fraud, you lose your right to vote forever, and could face jail time and heavy fines.

The only way you could illegally vote is if (a) the person is deceased or no longer votes. (b) you know their signature, and (c) you know their specific polling location.

My big issue here is that people have the right to vote in this country, barring any major criminal offenses.

If you're going to have ID laws, you need to give people a long list of legitimate options.

 

[Cardinal]

The reason that Republicans are so paranoid about election cheating is because they're doing all the cheating. They're thinking, "Jeez, what if Democrats are as bad as us?"

 

[Manc Skipper]

Voter ID is a solution to a non-existent problem.

 

[BrotherFease]

They could vote using a provisional ballot.

If you choose absentee balloting system, your name would already be marked off on the sheet. There would be no double balloting. It would be a gigantic red flag.

 

[dairyair]

I don't know where you live, but here in NY, we have no ID laws.

When you show up to your assigned precinct, you tell the poll worker your name and street you live on. The poll worker finds your name and address, and you put down your signature and get a ballot. If you're caught committing voter fraud, you lose your right to vote forever, and could face jail time and heavy fines.

The only way you could illegally vote is if (a) the person is deceased or no longer votes. (b) you know their signature, and (c) you know their specific polling location.

My big issue here is that people have the right to vote in this country, barring any major criminal offenses.

If you're going to have ID laws, you need to give people a long list of legitimate options.

My state requires an ID to register.
And when I show up to vote, I need to show an ID, a state issued one.

That is fairly recent, R's put that in I think.

We used to only do what you did. But one needed proof of the name matched the address. IE a bill or something similar.
But I think, and ID was always required to register.

 

[Lisa]

How do you verify that the person who registered is in fact the person actually voting?

They sign the registration book/tablet and the signatures are compared. I have a voter registration card that was issued to me by the county election bureau that I carry in my purse. The rate of voter fraud is infinitesimally low. If you had any knowledge of statistical process control you would know just how laughable the claims of vote fraud are. I assume that most Trump voters or other who spew this nonsense have no understanding of ISO 9001 or 6-Sigma.

Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.

 

[dairyair]

The reason that Republicans are so paranoid about election cheating is because they're doing all the cheating. They're thinking, "Jeez, what if Democrats are as bad as us?"

The last voter fraud case that was big was in R controlled NC

Prosecutors in North Carolina filed new felony charges against a Republican political operative accused of ballot tampering in a congressional election in 2018.
North Carolina GOP Operative Faces New Ballot Tampering Charges : NPR

 

[Lisa]

They could vote using a provisional ballot.

I had 2 photo IDs (drivers license and a state issued college ID) my voter registration card and a note card that was sent to my by the election bureau in 2004 and I wads denied the right to vote and was forced to use a provisional ballot because my name was removed from the voting rolls by J. Ken Blackwell in 2004 Ohio. Oho was a scam election in the fall of 2004.

The witch working the polls tried to claim that I didn't live where I did but there was a cop who just got off the night shift w and was still in uniform, and my neighbor, who I share a backyard border with who proved to this women that I in fact did live there because we walked to the polls.

 

[JMR]

Every time I've voted it was with a pencil and a piece of paper. News media have to wait longer for votes to be counted before they start declaring winners but so what?
As for voter id., what's the issue? I get a card in the mail telling me I'm still registered and asking for updates if something has changed but if I forget it or lose it I just have to prove my identity with a government picture ID and proof of residence. Are you refering to a special ID for voting? What for? You'd have to apply for another if you move, right? Why bother? I've got too many plastic cards in my wallet as is.

In my state you need government ID to register to vote. That puts you on the registry of registered voters. When I appear at the polling place I give my name, they find it in their registry, I sign on the line and go vote. I have not heard of anyone in my many years of voting finding that procedure lacking in any way. The calls for voter ID are distractions looking to divert attention from the fact that most people just don't like Republicans. Republicans are the only ones complaining.

 

[Digger]

Can any one on this forum give me a good logical reason why we should not have voter ID? Forget the political nonsense.

Further can you give me a good logical reason why we should not have paper ballots that can be recounted. Any computer voting machine can be hacked.

Voter ID prevents a type of voter fraud that almost never happens; voter impersonation. It happens 31 times in a billion ballots, and that's probably an overcount. Meanwhile, thousands of people are being denied legitimate ballots.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/?arc404=true

 

[Condor060]

Under the voter ID logic, a voter who lost their license and yet to receive a replacement before the election wouldn't be eligible to vote. Am I correct? You didn't really respond to my point, you just ignored it.

That isn't a reason to no have voter ID. You can always go to the DMV and get a replacement.

 

[Condor060]

The reason that Republicans are so paranoid about election cheating is because they're doing all the cheating. They're thinking, "Jeez, what if Democrats are as bad as us?"

If that were true, you would be screaming for voter ID laws

 

[Condor060]

The last voter fraud case that was big was in R controlled NC

Prosecutors in North Carolina filed new felony charges against a Republican political operative accused of ballot tampering in a congressional election in 2018.
North Carolina GOP Operative Faces New Ballot Tampering Charges : NPR

And before that it was Brenda Snipes in Broward county Florida.

A medical marijuana amendment was left off some ballots in 2016.

Election results in the 2016 primary were posted on the elections office’s website before polls closed, another violation of election law.

In 2012, almost 1,000 uncounted ballots were discovered a week after the election

In 2004, some 58,000 mail-in ballots were not delivered to voters, leaving election officials to scramble to send new ones.

A court ruled she had broken election law when she destroyed ballots from the 2016 election 12 months after it, instead of the 22 months required by federal law.

In 2018 after days passed in which Snipes could not or would not say how many ballots remained to be counted, and failed to give regular updates to the state every 45 minutes as required by law, she was hit with a lawsuit demanding she inform the public how many votes remained to be counted.

 

[BrotherFease]

That isn't a reason to no have voter ID. You can always go to the DMV and get a replacement.

Is the DMV open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? In my town, DMV is only open on Tuesday during the day time. Getting your picture ID happens through the mail. If you mandate a photo ID card every time you vote, you're preventing people who lost their ID within the last couple of days. I don't think that is very fair, for a problem that doesn't exist. I don't mind the concept of requiring any alternative source of verification, but photo ID or bust, is problematic.

 

[Condor060]

Is the DMV open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Why would they need to be. They aren't that way now and people have no problems getting drivers license.

In my town, DMV is only open on Tuesday during the day time.

If you can't make it on Tuesday is it possible for you to leave your town and get back safely to go to a town that has a DMV? What do you have there, a population of 500?

Getting your picture ID happens through the mail. If you mandate a photo ID card every time you vote, you're preventing people who lost their ID within the last couple of days. I don't think that is very fair, for a problem that doesn't exist. I don't mind the concept of requiring any alternative source of verification, but photo ID or bust, is problematic.

Then they could bring a utility bill, water bill, or anything that has their name and address on it. Why not verify the people who are voting?

 

[BrotherFease]

Why would they need to be. They aren't that way now and people have no problems getting drivers license.



If you can't make it on Tuesday is it possible for you to leave your town and get back safely to go to a town that has a DMV? What do you have there, a population of 500?


Then they could bring a utility bill, water bill, or anything that has their name and address on it. Why not verify the people who are voting?

I don't think you understand my point. Lets say you lose your license or state ID card on November 1st or 2nd. Lets say you misplaced your wallet on the day of election day. Under a voter ID logic, you wouldn't be eligible to vote on election day -- November 3rd -- because you cannot get a photo ID in time.

We're not talking about losing a license or state ID card in August or September or even October. We're talking about losing your ID card within DAYS of the election.

Statistically, illegal voting is extremely rare. In NYS, we do not have voter ID laws and we don't have an issue with illegal voting. When you first register to vote, you have to show your proper identification, get an official signature, and a background check. After that, you just sign your name and that's it. Duplicate voting is tough to get around. The person you pose as, would have to be an inactive voter and would know their signature. If two people go to the same polling location, and claim to be John Smith from 123 Bowling Lane, you know there was voter fraud.

When you look at voter ID laws, you see it's far from a perfect system. People can always bring in a fake ID. People could always steal a utility bill or create a fake one.

 

[BrotherFease]

Then they could bring a utility bill, water bill, or anything that has their name and address on it. Why not verify the people who are voting?

Bringing in a utility bill in NC wouldn't be sufficient for voting. You have to bring in a Photo ID, whether state ID, driver's license, passport, or military ID. NC and Texas have the strictest voting ID laws out there. I prefer no ID law or one that allows a fingerprint option. Making it harder for people to exercise a constitutional right is fundamental wrong.

 

[Condor060]

Bringing in a utility bill in NC wouldn't be sufficient for voting. You have to bring in a Photo ID, whether state ID, driver's license, passport, or military ID. NC and Texas have the strictest voting ID laws out there. I prefer no ID law or one that allows a fingerprint option. Making it harder for people to exercise a constitutional right is fundamental wrong.

Not protecting that right is also wrong. Whats so hard about verifying who you are? If you can't, you either learn of you don't vote.

 

[BrotherFease]

Not protecting that right is also wrong. Whats so hard about verifying who you are? If you can't, you either learn of you don't vote.

For starters, you just ignored my previous points again. Strict Voter ID laws hurts people, and prevents people, especially poor and elderly people, from exercising their right to vote. If you lose your photo ID days before an election, you cannot vote. I just presented all the problematic areas.

I am all for loose ID laws, but strict laws I am against, like in NC or Texas. We shouldn't be finding a solution to a non-existent problem.

When you sign your name on the voter ledger, you're verifying yourself.

 

[Scorps2000]

How many people would lose their ID on November 2nd or 3rd? Probably less people than would trip, hit their head and be hospitalize so they wouldn't be able to vote. Maybe we can use a Social Security number, that's free and most American’s already have one. I agree with requiring voter ID and go a step further, this is very unpopular and would be difficult if not impossible to implement, but I think it would improve our country and quality of government servers. I believe we should require some level of “knowledge of the candidates” and what they stand for. When I first started to vote “many moons ago” it was a requirement that you prove you were literate. When did that change, is it true that you don’t even need to know how to read to vote? I know this would be difficult, but voting is one of the most important things any one can do, so shouldn’t you be educated about it?

 

[BrotherFease]

How many people would lose their ID on November 2nd or 3rd? Probably less people than would trip, hit their head and be hospitalize so they wouldn't be able to vote. Maybe we can use a Social Security number, that's free and most American’s already have one.

Regardless of the probability, it's a fundamental right to vote in this country. Being mugged on your way to a polling site shouldn't prevent you from exercising your right to vote. If your house burns down and all your documents gets burned, that shouldn't prevent you from voting.

Requiring a photo ID doesn't stop voter fraud from happening. People could also get a fake ID.

Literacy tests are unconstitutional and were used to prevent black people from voting. We're not going to go down that road, ever.