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Thread: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason.

  1. #161
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sure, as long as they post it where anyone can see it before entering the store...where all the public can see it so they don't make a mistake and go in by accident.

    I'd love to see this idea 'piloted.' I bet most businesses would be in for some very unpleasant consequences.
    I think it would be an unobstructed and lighted 24x48 sign on the door in international orange lettering of 2" tall lettering on a white background clearly stating that the support discrimination and who will refuse to serve those who they do not agree with. I wonder how their profits will change after it is posted.? They will also pay 5% higher business taxes for this privilege.
    Last edited by Lisa; 04-09-20 at 01:58 AM.
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by dex4974 View Post
    If some bakery owner wants to deny service to openly gay people, or if Cleetus the bar owner wants to deny service to people of color in his bar out in the sticks, that should be legally acceptable in my opinion. If somebody is willing to limit their own sales because they feel so strongly about not wanting to serve somebody, they should be allowed to deny their service. Somebody that invested in and built their own business should not be forced by the government to do business they don't want to do. If I want to turn down your money I should be legally allowed to do that for any stupid or illogical reason that I want. Nobody should have legal grounds to sue me because I refused to do business with them. It is ridiculous that it triggers national outrage and people get sued over not providing their private service to individuals.

    Personally I wouldn't purchase services from a business like that and I would encourage others to do the same, but the government shouldn't be involved. It's all about not giving the government precedence to exert more control over the private sector. The government always has a good reason when it takes us an inch closer to their complete control of our lives and decisions.
    I tend to agree with your sentiment however I would adjust it slightly by saying that only if the business in question is a sole proprietorship or family owned, if the business has a legal document ei partnership or corporation LLC ect. then they should be subjected to whatever civil rights laws and regulations there are. Sole proprietors and family owned have the full responsibility and risk of the business and therefor should be able to run it as they see fit. Business entities are created by government to protect the owners and therefor should be subject to government whims. Sole proprietors have no such protections.
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by dex4974 View Post
    Forcing a private business owner to conduct business they don't want to conduct is not protecting freedoms; it's the opposite. Nobody should have a right to do business with me. Nobody should be able to sue me for refusing to do business.
    Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

    Freedom is not an absolute thing.

    You don't have the right to yell 'fire' in a theatre.

    Imagine what a child might think if she went to a store, and because she was black, the store wouldn't sell her candy.

    Can you possibly imagine the damage you are doing to her and that doing this is callous, cruel, and uncaring.

    In my view, your position is nothing less than criminal child abuse.

    You do not have the right to operate a criminal enterprise.

    Sorry.
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I tend to agree with your sentiment however I would adjust it slightly by saying that only if the business in question is a sole proprietorship or family owned, if the business has a legal document ei partnership or corporation LLC ect. then they should be subjected to whatever civil rights laws and regulations there are. Sole proprietors and family owned have the full responsibility and risk of the business and therefor should be able to run it as they see fit. Business entities are created by government to protect the owners and therefor should be subject to government whims. Sole proprietors have no such protections.
    Family businesses shouldn't have the right to break the law. Discrimination is and should remain illegal.

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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by dex4974 View Post
    A private business owner shouldn't need to justify denying their service to anybody.
    Agree

    That same business should be aware that social media is a powerful tool, and can be used when an individual is refused service based on bigotry and homophobia.
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by dex4974 View Post
    Believing businesses shouldn't be mandated into entering contracts does not mean I am advocating for some strawman scenario you're using to try to make a point. That's not how reality works.
    Reality is that these laws are in place and likely arent going anywhere anytime soon. If you operate a business, you are agreeing to abide by these laws, whether you like it or not.

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  7. #167
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If those who sell are not allowed to refuse to enter into business with someone, can someone who is a prostitute in Nevada be forced to service a former abusive boyfriend or rapist? Could (say) a lesbian prostitute be forced to have sex with men?
    That is considered a business that is allowed to specialize, freedom to choose their customers based on their preferences. Just as individual tutors or nannies can discriminate, piano teachers and gardeners can discriminate, housekeepers and private cooks can discriminate. Businesses cannot discriminate. So a whorehouse may have to ensure they hire someone who is willing to pleasure anyone. This may seem like a contradiction, but then these are services that also could be seen as a real contract service, unlike transaction services of purchase of goods. These are businesses where you are being hired for individual service. Unlike being a waiter or manager at a restaurant or a clerk at a store, you are not selling things, but rather your individual service.

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  8. #168
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    I think it would be an unobstructed and lighted 24x48 sign on the door in international orange lettering of 2" tall lettering on a white background clearly stating that the support discrimination and who will refuse to serve those who they do not agree with. I wonder how their profits will change after it is posted.? They will also pay 5% higher business taxes for this privilege.
    They must put it in all advertising as well.

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  9. #169
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by dex4974 View Post
    Because nobody should be forced into a contract they don't want.
    You own a restaurant. Lets say you sell pulled pork sandwiches. Technically the contract would be a sandwich in exchange for money. Why does it matter if the patron was black, white, Latina, Latina, Asian, gay, trans, non-binary, Jewish, Catholic, one-eyed, or whatever? If you can afford to pay the tab, what difference does it make?

    Are you also opposed to health inspectors and state/federal guidelines when it comes to health? Why should you be forced to follow rules by the government?

    Your belief system unfortunately promotes an UNEQUAL society.

  10. #170
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    Re: Private businesses should legally be allowed to deny service to anybody they want for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That is considered a business that is allowed to specialize, freedom to choose their customers based on their preferences. ..... Businesses cannot discriminate. .... This may seem like a contradiction,
    ... Because it is. Is this the part where I'm supposed to accuse you off bigotry for not wanting to force these individual to serve anyone who wishes their services?

    these are services that also could be seen as a real contract service, unlike transaction services of purchase of goods. These are businesses where you are being hired for individual service. Unlike being a waiter or manager at a restaurant or a clerk at a store, you are not selling things, but rather your individual service.
    That sounds a lot like "businesses I feel uncomfortable coercing in this manner don't count, and now I'm trying to think of a reason why." As a waiter, I was absolutely hired to provide my individual service. Ditto a photographer, a therapist, a wedding-cake baker, and so and so forth.

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