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It's time for Democrats to step up and do the right thing

Grim17 said:
I'm talking about the Joe Biden situation.

As you all know I am a conservative and from a political standpoint, Joe Biden being the democratic nominee for president is an absolute guarantee that a republican (presumably Donald Trump) will win the election in November. But what's going on right now with the democratic party is the most heartless and shameful thing I have ever seen. The situation concerning Joe Biden's mental decline is no joke and for me transcends partisan politics. For the last few months, when I see him interviewed I no longer see a political opponent or adversary, I see a human being who's not only in a desperate battle to stay focused on what's going on around him, but he's struggling to both formulate thoughts and communicate them... What sent me over the edge was that over the last few weeks during interviews, it's become clear that Biden knows he's losing the battle and knows he can no longer pretend that there's nothing wrong.

Have a heart democrats. Stop propping him up and pretending that there's nothing wrong with him. It's time to put politics aside and address this situation with compassion and human decency. I may not like Biden much, but neither him or his family deserve the level of embarrassment and publicly humiliation that they will inevitably have to deal with, unless the democrats step in, take control and do the right thing.


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Ummmmmm, there has been voting and voters have decided Biden is their nominee. And, everyone else dropped out. Are you saying that we should screw democracy?
 
Paradoxical said:
How would you know if it did when you didn't know anything about it?
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What we know is when the cases did show up and how many showed up at the same time. We also know that most of the first cases we found were related to travel so it's not that big of a jump in logic to estimate when it first started.

Neither of these things support your view so I am wondering where it was derived?

Community transmission started to be detected with the first case we found that wasn't related to travel or contact with known infected individuals, those were found first in February, so we count back fourteen days to a month or so before that, which still gives us an early January late December date at the soonest.
 
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Variant said:
What we know is when the cases did show up and how many showed up at the same time. We also know that most of the first cases we found were related to travel so it's not that big of a jump in logic to estimate when it first started.

Neither of these things support your view so I am wondering where it was derived?

Community transmission started to be detected with the first case we found that wasn't related to travel or contact with known infected individuals, those were found first in February, so we count back fourteen days to a month or so before that, which still gives us an early January late December date at the soonest.
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The virus was here in NOVEMBER because the Chinese travel to and from America every day. Why are you struggling with this?
 
Paradoxical said:
The virus was here in NOVEMBER because the Chinese travel to and from America every day. Why are you struggling with this?
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I'm having trouble reaching a conclusion not supported by any evidence. Viruses take time to infect people and move from place to place. They show up in a population when they actually do, not when you feel like they should.
 
Variant said:
I'm having trouble reaching a conclusion not supported by any evidence. Viruses take time to infect people and move from place to place. They show up in a population when they actually do, not when you feel like they should.
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If there were 430,000 people that came here in just one month and there is
If the virus was discovered on November 19th
From November 19th to January 20th is 860,000 people
What are the odds that not ONE of those 860,000 infected anybody?

The odds are astronomical that the fist infections in the United States were late November.
They are also astronomical that many people got infected between 11-19-19 and 1-20-20
It is logical that all of those were chalked up as the flu

By the time Trump found out about this, the barn door had been open for two months and that is why we have such a problem from the get go.
 
Paradoxical said:
If there were 430,000 people that came here in just one month and there is
If the virus was discovered on November 19th
From November 19th to January 20th is 860,000 people
What are the odds that not ONE of those 860,000 infected anybody?
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The odds are 1 that someone was infected between those times because we know someone was infected before January 20th, the question is when.


The odds are astronomical that the fist infections in the United States were late November.
They are also astronomical that many people got infected between 11-19-19 and 1-20-20
It is logical that all of those were chalked up as the flu

By the time Trump found out about this, the barn door had been open for two months and that is why we have such a problem from the get go.
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As I said, you have no evidence. The "odds" rely on people actually contracting the virus then spreading it, not how many people are moving from point A to B. Eventually it gets spread yes, but when that actually happens has to do with when the events actually occur. If we knew say how many people in that group had contact with people who were infected with corona-virus we would be able to speculate on the odds.

Your argument is a bit of a dressed up appeal to ignorance that doesn't really fit the data we have.

I'll call it speculation to be charitable.
 
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Variant said:
The odds are 1 that someone was infected between those times because we know someone was infected before January 20th, the question is when.




As I said, you have no evidence. The "odds" rely on people actually contracting the virus then spreading it, not how many people are moving from point A to B. Eventually it gets spread yes, but when that actually happens has to do with when the events actually occur. If we knew say how many people in that group had contact with people who were infected with corona-virus we would be able to speculate on the odds.

Your argument is a bit of a dressed up appeal to ignorance that doesn't really fit the data we have.

I'll call it speculation to be charitable.
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Sorry but you don't understand math or logic. We're done.
 
Grim17 said:
I'm talking about the Joe Biden situation.

As you all know I am a conservative and from a political standpoint, Joe Biden being the democratic nominee for president is an absolute guarantee that a republican (presumably Donald Trump) will win the election in November. But what's going on right now with the democratic party is the most heartless and shameful thing I have ever seen. The situation concerning Joe Biden's mental decline is no joke and for me transcends partisan politics. For the last few months, when I see him interviewed I no longer see a political opponent or adversary, I see a human being who's not only in a desperate battle to stay focused on what's going on around him, but he's struggling to both formulate thoughts and communicate them... What sent me over the edge was that over the last few weeks during interviews, it's become clear that Biden knows he's losing the battle and knows he can no longer pretend that there's nothing wrong.

Have a heart democrats. Stop propping him up and pretending that there's nothing wrong with him. It's time to put politics aside and address this situation with compassion and human decency. I may not like Biden much, but neither him or his family deserve the level of embarrassment and publicly humiliation that they will inevitably have to deal with, unless the democrats step in, take control and do the right thing.


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The democrats don't care about Biden....as I've said before, just watch who will be picked as the 'running mate'....therein is your next president, if Biden wins in November. They will get rid of Biden, when his purpose is over....just hope people keep awake and vote republican in november....president, house, and senate.....rid these loser democrats. The way democrats have acted these last 3.5 years, even if Jesus were running for office and he was a democrat, He would not get my vote. Russia collusion, illegal aliens, Kavanaugh, Ukraine 2.0, now their politicizing a pandemic.....sick people who deserve NO power in this country.
 
Moderate Right said:
Ummmmmm, there has been voting and voters have decided Biden is their nominee. And, everyone else dropped out. Are you saying that we should screw democracy?
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Not at all. The democrats are aware, just as we all are, that Joe Biden's mental capacity has diminished to the point that he has no business running for president, or any other office, and they've known this for a very long time. Instead of showing some compassion toward him and his family by taking whatever steps necessary to get him out of the race, the democrats and their subordinates in the mainstream media have stayed silent and pretended that there was nothing wrong with the man.

They should have sat Biden and his wife down months ago and expressed in no uncertain terms, that he needed to drop out of the race and why. Who knows, maybe that conversation did take place and Biden told them all to get bent. But if that were the case, all the democrats needed to do was stop pretending that there was nothing wrong with Biden and tell their lackeys in the media it was ok for them to report on his deteriorating condition. If they would have done that months ago, there's no way he would be the democrats presumptive nominee. He would have likely dropped out of the race, but even if he hadn't, with his condition being public knowledge I can't imagine he would have the support necessary to be the nominee.

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Paradoxical said:
Sorry but you don't understand math or logic. We're done.
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I understand both evidence and logic, you just want to assert something speculative that you can't possibly demonstrate.

Consider your assertion dismissed.
 
Variant said:
I understand both evidence and logic, you just want to assert something speculative that you can't possibly demonstrate.

Consider your assertion dismissed.
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You are.
 
Grim17 said:
I'm talking about the Joe Biden situation.

As you all know I am a conservative and from a political standpoint, Joe Biden being the democratic nominee for president is an absolute guarantee that a republican (presumably Donald Trump) will win the election in November. But what's going on right now with the democratic party is the most heartless and shameful thing I have ever seen. The situation concerning Joe Biden's mental decline is no joke and for me transcends partisan politics. For the last few months, when I see him interviewed I no longer see a political opponent or adversary, I see a human being who's not only in a desperate battle to stay focused on what's going on around him, but he's struggling to both formulate thoughts and communicate them... What sent me over the edge was that over the last few weeks during interviews, it's become clear that Biden knows he's losing the battle and knows he can no longer pretend that there's nothing wrong.

Have a heart democrats. Stop propping him up and pretending that there's nothing wrong with him. It's time to put politics aside and address this situation with compassion and human decency. I may not like Biden much, but neither him or his family deserve the level of embarrassment and publicly humiliation that they will inevitably have to deal with, unless the democrats step in, take control and do the right thing.
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So, we have a choice between an old, incompetent idiot and an old, senile idiot.

So, what is the "right thing?" You didn't say. Cause Biden to drop out? Now who is senile?

Here is still another example of Trump's capacity as a leader.

Trump's acting navy secretary, Thomas B. Modly, relieved the commander of the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt, Brett E. Crozier, for writing to his superiors, acquainting them with the conditions aboard the Roosevelt. At most, Crozier deserved a slap on the wrist for using unsecure channels. But Modly fired him, turning a routine reprimand into major scandal for Trump. Modly then made matters worse by telling the crew of the Roosevelt that their captain was "too naive, or too stupid, to be the commanding officer of a ship like this."

Before being fired for being a total idiot, Modly resigned.

Trump made Modly out to be a hero. He claimed that Modly put his country first, and his personal interests second.

“The captain should not have written a letter, he didn’t have to be Ernest Hemingway. He made a mistake but he had a bad day,” Trump said.

He added on Modly’s resignation: “I had heard he did because he didn’t want to cause any disturbance for our country… because he wouldn’t have had to resign, I would not have asked him. I think in really many ways that was a very unselfish thing for him to do," the New York Post.

Trump added, "I don’t know him."

"A handful of Democratic lawmakers have called for Modly, who was appointed by President Donald Trump after the former Navy secretary was forced to resign, to step down or be fired."- Business Insider

Trump is dangerous, out of control, and he doesn't listen to anyone. I'll go with senility. Biden is known for listening to others, and senility can be controlled.

I'm a conservative Independent, too. Thank you for helping me with my decision.
 
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Grim17 said:
Since I haven't referenced any specific story, please explain how you came to that conclusion?




1. If I do watch FOX, which is extremely rare, I get my news from Special report. That not only isn't "fake news", it's the most centrist national news program on cable or network TV, whose credibility matches or exceeds any other nightly news program. If you believe otherwise, I suggest you prove it.

2. I am not now, nor have I ever been associated in any way with the so called "alt-right", nor do I frequent any "alt-right" websites... Which of course makes your comment nothing but a typical leftist lie that everyone has come to expect from folks like yourself.

I would ask you to correct your post if I thought for one second you gave a damn about the truth... But I don't, so I won't.

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Maybe you should have given some examples of "lying by omission" then. I do not see that as happening very often.
 
iguanaman said:
Maybe you should have given some examples of "lying by omission" then. I do not see that as happening very often.
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It happens far too often than it should and in nearly every instance, reflects poorly on the right or favorable for folks on the left.

I don't have the time to look up a bunch of them, but they surely do exist. Here's one that I already knew where to find, it's from several years back and talks about what CBS News had done:

 
Grim17 said:
Not at all. The democrats are aware, just as we all are, that Joe Biden's mental capacity has diminished to the point that he has no business running for president, or any other office, and they've known this for a very long time. Instead of showing some compassion toward him and his family by taking whatever steps necessary to get him out of the race, the democrats and their subordinates in the mainstream media have stayed silent and pretended that there was nothing wrong with the man.

They should have sat Biden and his wife down months ago and expressed in no uncertain terms, that he needed to drop out of the race and why. Who knows, maybe that conversation did take place and Biden told them all to get bent. But if that were the case, all the democrats needed to do was stop pretending that there was nothing wrong with Biden and tell their lackeys in the media it was ok for them to report on his deteriorating condition. If they would have done that months ago, there's no way he would be the democrats presumptive nominee. He would have likely dropped out of the race, but even if he hadn't, with his condition being public knowledge I can't imagine he would have the support necessary to be the nominee.

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If Democrats want to elect someone with diminished mental capacity then that is what voters want. Hell, we've got Trump for president. One could argue that Republican voters already voted for a nominee with diminished mental capacity. If you subvert democracy then you no longer have democracy if you are going to annoint someone without them having been elected by the voters.
 
Moderate Right said:
If Democrats want to elect someone with diminished mental capacity then that is what voters want... If you subvert democracy then you no longer have democracy if you are going to annoint someone without them having been elected by the voters.
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OK then... Let's review our conversation.

You asked me "Are you saying that we should screw democracy?" and I responded right away with "not at all". I then proceeded to explain in detail, exactly what was at the heart of my post.

Now could you point specifically what part of my response you believed advocated for subverting our democracy? Because I'll be damned if I can find it anywhere.

I'm also curious about another thing... Why you would think democratic voters, or any voters for that matter, would want to elect someone with the level of diminished mental capacity that Joe Biden has? I think it's clear by the sheer number of leftists on this board that have/had no idea of Biden's mental condition, that the silence by democrats and the MSM's refusal to report on it, has left millions of people completely in the dark about the severity of his condition. That in my opinion is what's responsible for him being the presumptive nominee. I don't think for a second that democrats, or any other sane person, would knowingly want someone in such a diminished mental state to be the next President of the United States.

That was a serious question so please try to refrain from the typical Trump fodder.

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Sandy Shanks said:
So, we have a choice between an old, incompetent idiot and an old, senile idiot.

So, what is the "right thing?" You didn't say. Cause Biden to drop out? Now who is senile?

Here is still another example of Trump's capacity as a leader.

Trump's acting navy secretary, Thomas B. Modly, relieved the commander of the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt, Brett E. Crozier, for writing to his superiors, acquainting them with the conditions aboard the Roosevelt. At most, Crozier deserved a slap on the wrist for using unsecure channels. But Modly fired him, turning a routine reprimand into major scandal for Trump. Modly then made matters worse by telling the crew of the Roosevelt that their captain was "too naive, or too stupid, to be the commanding officer of a ship like this."

Before being fired for being a total idiot, Modly resigned.

Trump made Modly out to be a hero. He claimed that Modly put his country first, and his personal interests second.

“The captain should not have written a letter, he didn’t have to be Ernest Hemingway. He made a mistake but he had a bad day,” Trump said.

He added on Modly’s resignation: “I had heard he did because he didn’t want to cause any disturbance for our country… because he wouldn’t have had to resign, I would not have asked him. I think in really many ways that was a very unselfish thing for him to do," the New York Post.

Trump added, "I don’t know him."

"A handful of Democratic lawmakers have called for Modly, who was appointed by President Donald Trump after the former Navy secretary was forced to resign, to step down or be fired."- Business Insider

Trump is dangerous, out of control, and he doesn't listen to anyone. I'll go with senility. Biden is known for listening to others, and senility can be controlled.

I'm a conservative Independent, too. Thank you for helping me with my decision.
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Only people wanting to stand up to the establishment are "dangerous" and "out of control", get a new line.
 
Grim17 said:
OK then... Let's review our conversation.

You asked me "Are you saying that we should screw democracy?" and I responded right away with "not at all". I then proceeded to explain in detail, exactly what was at the heart of my post.

Now could you point specifically what part of my response you believed advocated for subverting our democracy? Because I'll be damned if I can find it anywhere.

I'm also curious about another thing... Why you would think democratic voters, or any voters for that matter, would want to elect someone with the level of diminished mental capacity that Joe Biden has? I think it's clear by the sheer number of leftists on this board that have/had no idea of Biden's mental condition, that the silence by democrats and the MSM's refusal to report on it, has left millions of people completely in the dark about the severity of his condition. That in my opinion is what's responsible for him being the presumptive nominee. I don't think for a second that democrats, or any other sane person, would knowingly want someone in such a diminished mental state to be the next President of the United States.

That was a serious question so please try to refrain from the typical Trump fodder.

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Democratic voters wanted someone with the best chance of beating Trump in November. Apparently they think Mindless Creepy Joe is the best they've got. Like voters already knew Trump was a gaff machine and elected him anyway, maybe Democratic voters understand that Biden is a gaff machine. It's very easy to criticize Biden for a number of things but any criticisms of him kind of mirror the same criticisms of Trump. The fact is that in this day and age where 50% of Americans are going to relentlessly attack you nonstop, only an idiot with lots of warts and suffering from dementia would want to be president. That's why we have who we have as the nominees. I still say that Biden was voted to be the democratic nominee and that's how we determine a nominee, through democratic voting and asking the DNC to rise up and nominate a different person than who voters voted for is subverting democracy.

But, let's be honest here. You are a Trump supporter who's only goal is to weaken Biden to give Trump the edge in the election. That is the reason for this thread, not because you care about the Democratic party. You are doing your part in re-electing Trump by putting doubts in the minds of those who voted for Biden.
 
Grim17 said:
OK then... Let's review our conversation.

You asked me "Are you saying that we should screw democracy?" and I responded right away with "not at all". I then proceeded to explain in detail, exactly what was at the heart of my post.

Now could you point specifically what part of my response you believed advocated for subverting our democracy? Because I'll be damned if I can find it anywhere.

I'm also curious about another thing... Why you would think democratic voters, or any voters for that matter, would want to elect someone with the level of diminished mental capacity that Joe Biden has? I think it's clear by the sheer number of leftists on this board that have/had no idea of Biden's mental condition, that the silence by democrats and the MSM's refusal to report on it, has left millions of people completely in the dark about the severity of his condition. That in my opinion is what's responsible for him being the presumptive nominee. I don't think for a second that democrats, or any other sane person, would knowingly want someone in such a diminished mental state to be the next President of the United States.

That was a serious question so please try to refrain from the typical Trump fodder.

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One very good reason not to be concerned about Biden's age or the possibility that he is not as quick as he was is that unlike Trump Biden will not dismiss his advisers suggestions because he "thinks from his gut". He is also not a egomaniac nearly as much as Trump is and does not have business interests in foreign countries that would shape his policies like Trump has done. He is also not a traitor who will side with our enemies and tear down our institutions which will be a refreshing change in itself. Plus we can be sure that Obama will be back in an advisory position and that would be really special. But most importantly Biden will bring back stability out of the chaos in DC that is Trump and reverse his disastrous environmental and climate change policies.
 
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Moderate Right said:
Democratic voters wanted someone with the best chance of beating Trump in November. Apparently they think Mindless Creepy Joe is the best they've got. Like voters already knew Trump was a gaff machine and elected him anyway, maybe Democratic voters understand that Biden is a gaff machine. It's very easy to criticize Biden for a number of things but any criticisms of him kind of mirror the same criticisms of Trump. The fact is that in this day and age where 50% of Americans are going to relentlessly attack you nonstop, only an idiot with lots of warts and suffering from dementia would want to be president. That's why we have who we have as the nominees. I still say that Biden was voted to be the democratic nominee and that's how we determine a nominee, through democratic voting and asking the DNC to rise up and nominate a different person than who voters voted for is subverting democracy.

But, let's be honest here. You are a Trump supporter who's only goal is to weaken Biden to give Trump the edge in the election. That is the reason for this thread, not because you care about the Democratic party. You are doing your part in re-electing Trump by putting doubts in the minds of those who voted for Biden.
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Again, could you point out specifically what part of my response you believed advocated for subverting our democracy?

If I understand you correctly, you believe that democratic voters have full knowledge of Biden's diminished mental capacity and support him anyway? That they don't care if he's capable of performing the job, as long as he can defeat Trump?

Wow... Just WOW.... Screw the corona virus... TDS is a mental disorder of the highest magnitude and the AMA, CDC and every pharmaceutical company in the northern hemisphere need to focus their efforts on finding a cure, because it obviously poses a far greater danger to the country than any virus could.

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iguanaman said:
One very good reason not to be concerned about Biden's age or the possibility that he is not as quick as he was is that unlike Trump Biden will not dismiss his advisers suggestions because he "thinks from his gut". He is also not a egomaniac nearly as much as Trump is and does not have business interests in foreign countries that would shape his policies like Trump has done. He is also not a traitor who will side with our enemies and tear down our institutions which will be a refreshing change in itself. Plus we can be sure that Obama will be back in an advisory position and that would be really special. But most importantly Biden will bring back stability out of the chaos in DC that is Trump and reverse his disastrous environmental and climate change policies.
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TDS... We need to find a cure.

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Grim17 said:
TDS... We need to find a cure.

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I'de vote for a old shoe over Trump because honest competent people won't refuse to work for and old shoe. Trump has filled the Govt. with ignorant boobs.
 
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