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Thread: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

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    It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    For those few on the left that may be capable of having an open mind, and everyone else, consider this: the World and the US Covid response is not the fault of Donald Trump, rather its the fault of internationalist, progressive and liberal ideology and it's opinion leaders.

    For 80 years, since the end of WWII, the faith in a "new" internationalist order that would supersede and cure all the world's material and human rights concerns has been bottomless, even though the romantic notion of internationalist federalism has repeatedly failed deliver. So, over and over the same question arises, what happened to the WHO?

    Formed after WWII, WHO was supposed to represent the ideal, the international effort to be prepared, coordinated, and to respond to cross national disease and epidemics. They were supposed to be the core to international management - yet it never delivered, and has only gotten worse at its job over the decades.

    Not that anyone intended for that to happen; after every disease outbreak it's become a public ritual for liberals to lament over WHO's ineffectiveness, for liberal (and conservative) Presidents to pledge more support for it, to have international conferences and papers dedicated to solve WHO's shortcomings with more administrative boxes and thick binders of "plans", but the stark reality is that it doesn't work. And on some collective and subconscious level no one, including supporters, believes it can.

    When a crisis hits, who you going to call...well it's not WHO, not even for a fig-leaf effort (UNAIDs to replace WHO's failure on aids). And if there is money to spend, WHO is increasingly the least preferable choice. It might be for public-private partnerships (e.g. GAVI), special disease fighting funds, and other organizations but WHO is not the one chosen.

    The problem with WHO, like all such international idealism is that for all the theatrics over the importance of WHO (or the UN) they are nothing more than creatures of the politics of nation's whose "national" interest often conflicts. Therefore it must be more interested in catering to the good ill of major contributors and countries (e.g. China) and only respond AFTER the crisis has reached its peak or is past it: ebola, SARs, H1N1, and now Covid-19 being painful examples.

    Yet, year after year governments, including the US government, yell that we need more mulit-lateral cooperation, more money, and yet no one advancing that trope really believes WHO, or any other "international" group will do better next time... and they don't.

    Trump is not the first President to downgrade the importance of funding and supporting international institutions, nor will he be first President to put money into reserve emergency funds for "disease X", but he is the first President to put America First as more important than "The World Order First", and to point out that internationalism has been a faux emperor without cloths.

    And if COVID has taught us anything it is that trusting the International Order to even report real facts (e.g. the real events and deaths in China) is a fool's errand - that is not what enablers do.

    The road to redemption is to not blame Trump for having the wrong attitude, it is to take his correct attitude of America First as the necessary and only priority. Unlike Obama (or Bush 43) its time to cease promoting and ideal that has taken money and attention from the real path to national preparedness.
    Last edited by maxparrish; 04-06-20 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Interesting take, but what is your proposal to supersede WHO or similar institutions at a national level? Disbanding or reneging on participation in these organizations won't suddenly make us more resilient to future pandemics/global issues. For example, you mention a lack of accurate information coming from China - what alternative do you have to remedy this, and how would distancing ourselves from WHO or the "international order" improve outcomes?

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    I think the dog whistle for Jews is no longer "internationalist", it's "globalist". And the OP forgot to mention Soros.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Quote Originally Posted by Singlegaze View Post
    Interesting take, but what is your proposal to supersede WHO or similar institutions at a national level? Disbanding or reneging on participation in these organizations won't suddenly make us more resilient to future pandemics/global issues. For example, you mention a lack of accurate information coming from China - what alternative do you have to remedy this, and how would distancing ourselves from WHO or the "international order" improve outcomes?
    Make our own drugs. Make our own equipment. Become totally self reliant in this area. Putting our safety in the hands of China, WHO or anyone other than ourselves, is pretty much insane.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Dealing with pandemics is part of Trump's job. That's why before he was inaugurated his team was given a briefing on a pandemic scenario. Taiwan and South Korea were prepared. We were not. That is Trump's fault. If Obama were president and we had the same result, it would be Obama's fault. The buck stops at the president.

    Your conclusion is irrational. If anything, a GLOBAL, pandemic proves how much we need a global agency and task force that is well funded to deal with pandemics as they occur anywhere in the world.

    What if a novel flu-like virus breaks out in Botswana? Do you expect Botswana to have the resources to do the DNA sequencing and contact tracing to contain the virus? Thank God we have a WHO. How many pandemics have they dealt with that you've never even heard of because they were stomped out. Your reasoning is akin to complaining that we don't need a fire department because the fire department failed to put out the fire in time.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Forty years of outsourcing, dumbing down, revanchist domestic policies re the social contract, and "drowning government in the bathtub".
    You guys GOT WHAT YOU WANTED, so stop trying to blame the Left, because for some strange reason we managed to enjoy forty plus years PRIOR to that where we did not bounce from "one crisis to the next and the next".

    Your brand IS CRISIS.
    And you inflicted it on us, crammed it down our throats.
    And TrumpCo is simply the ultimate result.
    And you OWN IT.

    Crisis Our Brand.jpg
    Are you better off than you were four years ago?
    (I'll give you a minute to take off your mask so you can answer.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jr View Post
    I'm willing to let you die and keep all my liberties, tho. We are not a team.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Why is the second "it's" in the title possessive.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Forty years of outsourcing, dumbing down, revanchist domestic policies re the social contract, and "drowning government in the bathtub".
    You guys GOT WHAT YOU WANTED, so stop trying to blame the Left, because for some strange reason we managed to enjoy forty plus years PRIOR to that where we did not bounce from "one crisis to the next and the next".

    Your brand IS CRISIS.
    And you inflicted it on us, crammed it down our throats.
    And TrumpCo is simply the ultimate result.
    And you OWN IT.
    Right, because Clinton and Obama did so much to stop outsourcing to China and elsewhere. Between the signing of NAFTA and 2018, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs were lost.
    Last edited by veritas1; 04-06-20 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    Quote Originally Posted by veritas1 View Post
    Make our own drugs. Make our own equipment. Become totally self reliant in this area. Putting our safety in the hands of China, WHO or anyone other than ourselves, is pretty much insane.
    How are we going to contain the spread of a virus in Uganda? That why we have a WHO.

    The complaint about global cooperation is idiotic when the reality of our economies is global.

    I agree that we need to be self-sufficient and capable of producing whatever we need. But there's also a limit to this philosophy. For example, the reason Japan felt the need to become an empire and invade other nations before WWII was because it wasn't self-sufficient when it came to oil. So the drive to be self-sufficient can also lead to war as nations try to secure the resources they need to be self-sufficient. In contrast, become interdependent, reduces the desire for war. The idea of war with China becomes less appealing when we need their manufacturing and they need our services.

    The reason we haven't had a major world war in so long has more to do with economic interdependence than the fear of mutual annihilation. The USSR was always in conflict with the West, in part, because of it's economic separation.

    So, the reality is that this liberal globalism has led to the greatest era of peace and prosperity the world has ever seen. It has also led to some problems like workers in one nation competing with lower-wage workers in another. But the solution is not to throw out the best thing that has ever happened to the world.

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    Re: It's not Trump's fault, its 80 years of faith and failure of Internationalist Liberal Idealism

    LOL... The Republican love of Corporations and giving them a total free reign over the decades has done more to help outsourcing than anything anyone else has done.

    Typical Conservative tactic though, Never defend, always attack. They don't defend what they GOP has done to promote outsourcing, they attack the Dems..

    So the Trumpsters, AND Trump himself(most of his products over the years were made overseas) attacks on others is laughable, and as usual dishonest.
    “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    President Lyndon Baines Johnson...

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