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Socialism saving capitalism

iguanaman said:
We all live on the same Earth. That seems to be your problem.
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The point is the economy would be perfectly fine right now if this didn't happen.
 
iguanaman said:
I just wanted to see you squirm.
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No squirming here.

You guys always scream socialism about every public program. Now that the tables are turned we see you were lying, giving money to those that need it is NOT Socialism. Like you said socialism as a govt. involves the Govt. owning the means of production and that is different from progressive programs that involve Govt. assistence of the people like welfare, UHC, Social Security and Medicare.
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What is 'assistence' (sic)?

They are not a Govt. they are merely socialist programs that help those in need. Now that we got that settled. Do you believe every American has the right to comprehensive healthcare?

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Changing the subject?

After all when your values start and end at 'by any means necessary', and 'You never let a serious crisis go to waste', pushing leftist political agenda down everyone else's throats, pushing leftist spending by legislative extortion and legislative fraud comes easy, right? After all, people don't have the right to question the left's spending.

How is it greed to want to keep what you've earned rather than forced confiscation and disbursement to those that have not earned it? Some of which refuse to earn anything, preferring to live off the government dole?

The best of all possible situations is that everyone who is able, takes care of themselves (along with the freedoms, liberties and free choice that entails), and not be condemned to second class citizen status and government servitude by the bigotry of low expectations, proffered by some.

I'm still not understanding why these items are in the CoronoVirus response legislation just signed into law:

  • $25 million in the Senate bill went to the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, D.C. During the past ten years, the center received $68.3 million in federal grants (2010-2019). The Kennedy Center has total assets of $557 million. The Pelosi bill earmarked $35 million.
  • $75 million in the Senate bill funded the Corporation For Public Broadcasting. Why do National Public Radio and Big Bird get a coronavirus subsidy? The Pelosi bill allocated $300 million.
  • $1.2 billion in the Pelosi bill to require airlines to purchase expensive “renewable” jet fuel. It was $200 million per year in grants (2021-2026) to “develop, transport, and store sustainable aviation fuels that would reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.” The Senate bill eliminated this provision.

  • $250 million to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). The subsidy would cover “taxpayer services,” “enforcement,” and “operations support.” The Pelosi bill provided $602 million.
  • $350 million to the State Department for “migration and Refugee Assistance.” This funding would help minimize the virus spread among vulnerable populations. The Pelosi bill earmarked $300 million.
  • $400 million to the federal Election Assistance Commission to assist the states with “election security grants.” The Pelosi bill provided $4 billion.

Is There Wasteful Spending In The Coronavirus Stimulus Bill?
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What possible justification is there for this spending to be in a viral outbreak response bill? I have yet someone from the left to respond to this legitimate question.

This spending is just leftist pet spending projects that they couldn't get through the regular legislative due order. Yet again, 'never let a crisis go to waste'

For example, it is a legitimate question if JOHN F KENNEDY CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS even needs more money.

JOHN F KENNEDY CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS.jpg
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Based on the statement above, looks like they are already just over $400M in the black, and should easily survive the next tough, but few, months.

How is this justified in a viral outbreak response bill?

Just another leftist and unjustified pet spending priority from the Democrats gained via legislative extortion and legislative fraud, but after all, when your values start and end at: 'By any means necessary' and 'never let a crisis go to waste' pushing leftist spending by legislative extortion and legislative fraud

How can you call a bill that contains this clearly unnecessary spending a viral outbreak response bill? Pretty fraudulent that.
 
Only a small part of the stimulus could be called socialism. In fact, the left has wrongly allowed the phrase "socialism for the rich" to become their response to the way the right responds to these crises. What "socialism for the rich" really is, is fascism. When the government works primarily for the rich, let's call it what it REALLY is and quit allowing socialism to take the rap for massive right-wing debt, war and bailouts of billionaires.

The irony is that many republicans don't even know what is done in their name. They continue to spout the rhetoric of small government and free markets without ever considering how gigantic and un-free their representatives are making our government and economy. All of these "too big to fail" industries are the result of a very fixed capitalist system where the super-wealthy have an unfair advantage in markets, in taxes and in the courts. And, while coporatists dominate both sides, politically, to a degree, only the right has been a consistent supporter of the monopolies, mergers and the FASCIST solutions to when they fail.

So, let's stop patronizing right wing ignorance. Let's call a spade a spade and a fascist a fascist. Somehow, incredibly, after fighting at least two bloody wars against fascism, after having the rich exposed in treachery against the government and the fascists come closer than any group to overthrowing the government of the people of the United States, the "F" word has remained absent from the lips of politicians and pundits. Why is that? It's no longer hyperbole. It's reality.

The word "communist" flows freely from the ignorant lips of right-wing demagogues while very few actual communists exist in our government. What a brilliant diversion from the facts of American society, a boogeyman story to scare republican morons into embracing what so many of our grandfathers died to defeat. If you ask me, there's been a propaganda victory by this nation's real enemies. They have controlled the narrative so successfully that fascists, like Trump, can constantly bleat about the dangers of socialism while those like him borrow and steal right in front of American eyes while blaming it on the non-existent communist left.

We always talk about "what if" the NAZIs had won. In a sense, they did. Never forget how many allies they had in America, names like Prescott Bush and Fred Trump being examples. Don't forget the Wallstreet Putsch, where industry leaders, if not for the noble patriotism of one veteran, might have marched their forces against the United States. Please, don't ever forget the xenophobic, elitist agenda of fascism that always HAS and WILL be its calling card.

Lots of words get tossed around in American politics. It's time we stop letting the facts be muddied by those who re-write history and re-define terms so that our current system can be soft sold as capitalism. Capitalism should be a meritocracy. Capitalism should allow failures to fail. Don't kid yourselves, people, what we have is something much more dangerous and dumb than that. The big "F" is what the conservatives especially have ****ed us all with. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.
 
CaughtInThe said:
hopefully more. massive liars like them should be outed every minute.

especially since so many Republicans worship the ground they walk on (for the truth).
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So thats why you live and breath Rush and Hannity every day huh? Because only you know they are these massive liars and they need to be outed?

Whats for dinner?
Rush and Hannity

Where you going
Rush and Hannity

What are you doing tomorrow
Rush and Hannity

So you thought you would get through to Republicans if you post Rush and Hannity in every post huh. Just wow dude.
 
eohrnberger said:
No squirming here.



What is 'assistence' (sic)?



Changing the subject?

After all when your values start and end at 'by any means necessary', and 'You never let a serious crisis go to waste', pushing leftist political agenda down everyone else's throats, pushing leftist spending by legislative extortion and legislative fraud comes easy, right? After all, people don't have the right to question the left's spending.

How is it greed to want to keep what you've earned rather than forced confiscation and disbursement to those that have not earned it? Some of which refuse to earn anything, preferring to live off the government dole?

The best of all possible situations is that everyone who is able, takes care of themselves (along with the freedoms, liberties and free choice that entails), and not be condemned to second class citizen status and government servitude by the bigotry of low expectations, proffered by some.

I'm still not understanding why these items are in the CoronoVirus response legislation just signed into law:



What possible justification is there for this spending to be in a viral outbreak response bill? I have yet someone from the left to respond to this legitimate question.

This spending is just leftist pet spending projects that they couldn't get through the regular legislative due order. Yet again, 'never let a crisis go to waste'

For example, it is a legitimate question if JOHN F KENNEDY CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS even needs more money.



Based on the statement above, looks like they are already just over $400M in the black, and should easily survive the next tough, but few, months.

How is this justified in a viral outbreak response bill?

Just another leftist and unjustified pet spending priority from the Democrats gained via legislative extortion and legislative fraud, but after all, when your values start and end at: 'By any means necessary' and 'never let a crisis go to waste' pushing leftist spending by legislative extortion and legislative fraud

How can you call a bill that contains this clearly unnecessary spending a viral outbreak response bill? Pretty fraudulent that.
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I don't know? How did yet another huge tax break for the 1% get into this same bill? I bet you could BUILD another JFK center with the millions in lost revenue that this "relief" for the very wealthy will cost us taxpayers. No wonder Trump was so eager to sign it. This benefit is right up his alley. It looks like Trumpco will pay nothing in taxes for another decade.

Now here is what changed in the historic $2 trillion stimulus bill. Previously, if a married couple had depreciation deductions that exceeded their real estate business income, the couple could claim that "loss" to write off taxes on a maximum of $500,000 in income from other sources, like wages from a day job.
Under the change, our rich taxpayer couple -- and this applies only for individuals, not corporations -- can now deduct an unlimited amount of "excess losses" in real estate against income from other sources. So now real estate moguls with lucrative day jobs or bountiful capital gains from other investments can go back to living tax-free, the Kushner way, before limits were put in place as part of the 2017 tax reform bill.
It gets worse, if that's possible. The change applies to this year -- and retroactively to 2019 and 2018. This means rich people can file amended returns now, and get refunds of perhaps millions of dollars, sooner than we can produce the number of ventilators we might need for the coronavirus crisis.
Let's pause for a moment to review: The new relief provision only benefits those who can list more than $500,000 in excess business losses -- typically artificial losses from depreciation that have more than wiped out their business income on paper -- AND more than $500,000 in other income from wages or other sources now that the cap on the tax break has been removed. Pity such people in a time of pandemic? Congress did.
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The stimulus bill includes a tax break for the 1% (opinion) - CNN
 
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Axe Cap said:
The point is the economy would be perfectly fine right now if this didn't happen.
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If you call under 2% GDP growth and trillion $ deficits "perfectly fine". That was the CBO forecast before covid 19 existed. I'm pretty sure you would not have called those results fine under Obama.
 
VanceMack said:
What is ironic is the number of people that think that people receiving a tax credit on the taxes they themselves paid from a capitalist economy in an emergency environment equates to 'socialism'.

Ironic...or mind-numbingly stupid.
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This is not a tax cut. The government is deficit spending to send people checks to get them through the crisis. That is government stimulus spending. It is not your friend in the stimulus spending by the Obama administration in the last recession. Trump is even eager to have his signature up here on the check, instead of a treasury department person which is a customary way this would be done. Free campaign money during the recession. Where is your outrage?
 
Axe Cap said:
The Capitalistic society was doing great until global pandemic outbreaks from another country...
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Crises always happen: recessions, wars, pandemics. The simple formula pushed by libertarians and conservatives that government should never intervene is ridiculous. I need to have a philosophy and worldview which works in all situations, not just when times are good. It’s a little like saying if everyone behaved, we would not need laws.

“I am not for big government. I am not for small government. I am for smart government.“
-Barack Obama
 
JustHanging said:
Trump has already exposed the hypocrisy of 90% of Republicans and Conservatives. Remember when they used to tell us they thought Personal Responsibility and family values were important?
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Big corporations have also gotten massive tax cuts during the last decades so they could have showed “personal responsibility” by saving up a buffer for economical crisis. Instead they immediately want the government to bail them out. Because the spent their money on dividend and buy back to the owners instead of building up a buffer for hard times.

Republicans have also defended the last decades of massive increase in inequality with that the argument that you should reward hard work, intelligence and risk taking. While now the economic elite wants the government to save their companies instead of risking their own money and relying on their own hard work and intelligence.
 
Axe Cap said:
The Capitalistic society was doing great until global pandemic outbreaks from another country...
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People for example lose their jobs because the business owners make bad decisions or get sick because of pollution from big corporations. That this one of the arguments for that you should not only have the government step in during collective crisis like the Corona outbreak but also during individual crisis like for example than a individual loses his jobs or get sick.

It makes also financial sense for government to help out during individual crisis just like collective crisis. That a person have a for example a lot better change of getting productive again if she/he get health care and financial security during sickness. Just like the Corona crisis will easier to deal with if the government step in and help.
 
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Keridan said:
It is also not what I said, nor a goal for libertarians - capitalism is different from full on free-market

A huge market with an unwieldy large GDP will always require some regulation; the invisible hand s an amazing phenomenon, but it's just that and as such has many limits: the greatest always being sometimes too much power ends up in the hands of too few

If you haven't read the works of Adam Smith, highly recommend at least the cliff's notes, He basically created the libertarian platform and he spends a lot of time explaining the need for regulations and why they need to be limited
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Yes, why capitalism fails without socialism.
 
That as quick.. Within a day of this package passing Trumpsters got the word from their masters on Fox that THIS package is a 'tax credit'.. lol...

According to Fox and their mindless minions Obama's stimulus package and bailout of companies was a handout and socialism... But now, Trump's stimulus and bailouts are a 'tax credit'....

The Republican party and the Con media machine more and more remind me of '1984'..
 
Bullseye said:
For what? Bull**** blather? Thanks anyway my lawn doesn't need fertilization.
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Program: Format: Weekly listeners (in millions)
The Rush Limbaugh Show: Conservative talk: 15.5
The Sean Hannity Show: Conservative talk: 15
 
Condor060 said:
So thats why you live and breath Rush and Hannity every day huh? Because only you know they are these massive liars and they need to be outed?

Whats for dinner?
Rush and Hannity

Where you going
Rush and Hannity

What are you doing tomorrow
Rush and Hannity

So you thought you would get through to Republicans if you post Rush and Hannity in every post huh. Just wow dude.
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hey, it's pretty smart to make it about me as i continue to point out that Rush and Sean are massive liars. i know you need to protect them...


Program: Format: Weekly listeners (in millions)
The Rush Limbaugh Show: Conservative talk: 15.5
The Sean Hannity Show: Conservative talk: 15
 
iguanaman said:
I don't know? How did yet another huge tax break for the 1% get into this same bill? I bet you could BUILD another JFK center with the millions in lost revenue that this "relief" for the very wealthy will cost us taxpayers. No wonder Trump was so eager to sign it. This benefit is right up his alley. It looks like Trumpco will pay nothing in taxes for another decade.
Senate coronavirus bill bars Trump companies from receiving federal aid

Your TDS and lack of being informed is showing.

The stimulus bill includes a tax break for the 1% (opinion) - CNN
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Kennedy Center Abruptly Lays Off Entire Orchestra Hours After Receiving $25 Million Taxpayer Bailout
NEWS, By Brandon G. Jones On Mar 28, 2020

Seems to be a common theme: Harvard, Boasting $40 Billion Endowment, Lays Off Dining Hall Workers Due to Coronavirus

Much has been made of private companies who don't have healthcare coverage for their employees, sending them to the ObamaCare website for subsidies, this being dumping that obligation on the taxpayer. How is the Kennedy Center's action any less so?

I have a friend of mine who is a small business owner. He's struggling, with about 1/2 of his normal workforce being either ill or self quarantining. On his own he's continuing to pay those who aren't working, at least partially, as well as altering procedures to protect those who are working (i.e. no direct customer contact, sterilize the customer's car interiors before and after their repair work). He's struggling, and yet he's doing it. Good on him.

Now tell me why the Kennedy Center is worthy of federal funds at the expense of small businesses? (Where somewhere between 45% to 49% of US workforce is employed)

Tell me why Trump's employees are any less worthy of support than anyone else? TDS spite?
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trixare4kids said:
Many often overplay the race card because they refuse to accept that conservatives don't especially appreciate what today's progressive left advocate.
It isn't that Obama is a bad guy nor does it have anything to do with his race, but for the most part, it was his policies many objected to and of course, his judicial picks.
I've often said I'd prefer to hang out with Obama over a beer than to spend time with Trump but that doesn't mean I like Obama's direction for the country better than Trump's.
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His policies saved america from the disaster W left the country. The stock market proves it. At least obama made picks for qualified people. Trump's picks are the most extreme unqualified people for the job. What qualifies them in his mind is their stances on political issues, as in your mind.
 
Axe Cap said:
The Capitalistic society was doing great until global pandemic outbreaks from another country...
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And now it's not and so a huge giveaway is needed. Sorta' like how the government had to step in and save the economy after W. Free markets, until they aren't and the taxpayer needs to support them.
 
VanceMack said:
What is ironic is the number of people that think that people receiving a tax credit on the taxes they themselves paid from a capitalist economy in an emergency environment equates to 'socialism'.

Ironic...or mind-numbingly stupid.
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What about collecting unemployment insurance? ;)
 
bluesmoke said:
We socialize corporate cost and privatize profit. Perfect yin-yang. What a world. Ain't America great?
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Sadly one party is either too stupid or too ignorant to recognize that little fact. They will keep voting against their own interests to keep the 'free market' system in place. How many times will we need to bail out those 'free markets' for that party to realize they've been duped for decades?
 
rickc said:
Simple what republicans call socialism is our social safety net. They have hated it since FDR.

Truth is they are the same people exploiting the working class as the robber barons of the late 1800's and the railroad tycoons of the roaring twenties.

Strange thing is somehow this time they have convinced the working.class that their policies are.good for them.

Both previous periods like this ended in economic recession/depression and better conditions for.the.working class.

This.time for sure our government has the wealthy's.back. Just like during the dick and jr. administration
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And yet the poorest of republicans will keep voting against their own best interests because ever since reagan it's been pounded into their heads, taxes bad, democrats worse they tax and spend. Over and over for decades along with all the dog whistles and now the gop is a seething party of hatred working against themselves and are too stupid or ignorant to recognize it. Sad.
 
Mycroft said:
Why are you suprised? I'm not a Republican, after all.
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I guess you call yourself an independent who supports everything this president does. That makes you a republican mycroft. Independent in name only.
 
Condor060 said:
Wow, 3 months later and you still have Rush and Sean living in your head? Thats must be painful for you. How many Rush and Sean replies have you used in the last 30 days.
A couple hundred?
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We remember the stupid crap those two tell their republican listeners who believe them. I know it's difficult to discover you've been duped.
 
VanceMack said:
What is ironic is the number of people that think that people receiving a tax credit on the taxes they themselves paid from a capitalist economy in an emergency environment equates to 'socialism'.

Ironic...or mind-numbingly stupid.
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this is the problem with low level education in this country. it is why leftism is so prevalent. it requires low level information and low level thinking skills.
 
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