• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

China shows why we needed to shut it all down for a month!

ludin said:
Trump tried to ban cruise lines, air flights and other things from china and other parts of the world infected.
people were let in anyway.

maybe next time they will listen instead of screaming about it.
Click to expand...

what on earth are you talking about?

Trump is an ass, period.
 
joko104 said:
Do you agree that any of these experts who significantly over project deaths should be fired and banned from government, university and research employment, with sufficient notice of this put online under their names so everyone knows they are a hack that never should be listened to again - don't you?
Click to expand...

Anyone who intentionally inflated the numbers for political purposes should should be fired, yes, of course. Why do you raise this hypothetical?

Should politicians who ignore subject matter experts because what the experts are saying doesn't fit the politician's pre-existing ideology be removed from office? Absolutely. And yet so often the voters refuse to hold them responsible for their idiocy.
 
joko104 said:
Nearly 700,000 Americans have died of AIDs. How come there was no lockdown when it's potential was discovered until everyone was tested and those with it were isolated?
Click to expand...

Because it wasn't anywhere nearly as communicable as this virus. You really didn't know that?

Oh yeah, a second reason it was ignored by the Reagan Administration for years was because of anti-gay prejudice.
 
independentusa said:
Apparently you do not know how this is happening. Try 100 million or more. For every one person who gets the Covid 19 virus, that person can give it to three. Those three then give it to three and those nine give it to 27 and hopdefully you get the message. THis is a very contagious virus so each person with the virus may give to more than three, the experts say up to 8. That is why you need to shut it down until those with the virus are no longer contagious which most experts say is between 25 and 30 days. That is what they did in China and now they are having fewer people getting the virus. And when they do get someone they isolate them right away. As long as we have states in the country where things are not shut down, the exponential grow of those infected will continue. So you ask when we can open things up, well if we had done this right away, instead of calling it a means for the Dems to go after Trump as Fox News did, things could have already gone back to a normal state of affairs.
Click to expand...

So you recommend we keep an eye on China to see how many months or years it will be before Americans can go back to work?
 
jpn said:
Answers to your questions can be found here: COVID-19 US state-by-state projections | Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation

Well, not really "answers," but rather projections based on sound science. Still, all the usual caveats regarding mere models as apposed to post-hoc statistics apply.

Looks like if everyone hunkers down appropriately, we'll lose around 80,000 citizens to the virus. It will be mostly over by early June. If we don't follow the recommendations, much worse.
Click to expand...

AOC gave us "projections based on sound science" giving us a dire warning that we are all going to die within 12 years if our government does not start donating trillions of dollars to fight unsustainable obstacles in world nations. I have no confidence in such "projections based on science."
 
The worst part of all this is that conservatives will go to their graves believing all of this was a massive, global overreaction to a big nothingburger. They'll see the death tolls and think they were right, never realizing the death tolls were brought down massively because the world reacted as strongly as they did. They have a fundamental disconnect in the chain.

1) Problem identified
2) Steps taken to resolve problem
3) Problem goes away.

They only see number 3, and think there was never a problem to begin with. Like the ozone layer. They think there was never a problem because it has started to get better.
 
marke said:
AOC gave us "projections based on sound science" giving us a dire warning that we are all going to die within 12 years if our government does not start donating trillions of dollars to fight unsustainable obstacles in world nations. I have no confidence in such "projections based on science."
Click to expand...

Oh my god you people still think "we're all gonna die in 12 years" was a literal statement :lamo
 
Deuce said:
The worst part of all this is that conservatives will go to their graves believing all of this was a massive, global overreaction to a big nothingburger. They'll see the death tolls and think they were right, never realizing the death tolls were brought down massively because the world reacted as strongly as they did. They have a fundamental disconnect in the chain.

1) Problem identified
2) Steps taken to resolve problem
3) Problem goes away.

They only see number 3, and think there was never a problem to begin with. Like the ozone layer. They think there was never a problem because it has started to get better.
Click to expand...

Yeah, been thinking this for awhile. If the shelter-in-place restrictions work...and we keep to a mortality rate similar to the flu...the event will be minimized and the restrictions dismissed. And we'll pay a greater price in lives (& economy) with a future epidemic.
 
Lursa said:
And you are definitely not pro-life on abortion, correct?

I love that the whole narrative of 'deaths of the unborn' being paramount over the 'inconveniences' of poverty, loss of security, education, and jobs, health, etc of women' has taken a complete 180 all of a sudden. :roll:
Click to expand...

There is no justification for killing unborn babies for the convenience of their hateful mothers.
 
marke said:
AOC gave us "projections based on sound science" giving us a dire warning that we are all going to die within 12 years if our government does not start donating trillions of dollars to fight unsustainable obstacles in world nations. I have no confidence in such "projections based on science."
Click to expand...

You prefer aping what Hannity says. Great.
 
Deuce said:
Oh my god you people still think "we're all gonna die in 12 years" was a literal statement :lamo
Click to expand...

You and I both know the statement was stupid and of course she wants people to think she was joking or something. She should not have been joking like that.
 
Lursa said:
Yeah, been thinking this for awhile. If the shelter-in-place restrictions work...and we keep to a mortality rate similar to the flu...the event will be minimized and the restrictions dismissed. And we'll pay a greater price in lives (& economy) with a future epidemic.
Click to expand...

According to the latest model, if staying home works, we'll "only" lose about 80,000 citizens. I don't think that will feel "minimized."
 
independentusa said:
The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.
Click to expand...

China didn't take a strong position, and they covered it up until **** hit the fan.
 
jpn said:
You prefer aping what Hannity says. Great.
Click to expand...

Hannity has been right about a lot of things leftist pundits were completely wrong about, like the Trump/Russian collusion lie.
 
jpn said:
You prefer aping what Hannity says. Great.
Click to expand...

Hannity has been right about a lot of things leftist pundits were completely wrong about, like the Trump/Russian collusion lie.
 
marke said:
There is no justification for killing unborn babies for the convenience of their hateful mothers.
Click to expand...

So then what is the justification of killing elderly and vulnerable people for the convenience 'of hateful' potentially poor people?

The use of 'hateful' is BS in both cases...if the poor people's convenience isnt hateful, then neither is the mother's. Everybody needs to eat and have a roof over their heads and hopefully can keep working and stay healthy. Poor/potentially poor people and pregnant women have the exact same justifications (or 'conveniences' in pro-life' lingo)
 
jpn said:
According to the latest model, if staying home works, we'll "only" lose about 80,000 citizens. I don't think that will feel "minimized."
Click to expand...
It is comparable to some previous years' flu season mortality rates...that's what I wrote.
 
independentusa said:
The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal. Trump and many states have refused to do so and now both cases and deaths continue to climb. People say we should not force people to shut dwon that it is wrong, the peope must be free to do as they want in this country. I have always heard that in a democracy that one man's freedom ends at his neighbors door. In this situation, people should ban together to shut the whole country down for thirty days to get past the worst of this. If we do not we will continue the spiral of new cases and deaths until the virus stops on its own which may not happen for months if ever.
Click to expand...

China was able to contain the virus early on mostly in Wuhan, and it took causing immense economic damage to do even that. They also forced people not to leave their houses and used very extreme measures. Covid is everywhere in the US and even more extreme and a much longer shutdown would be needed. People are also less compliant here in the US, than in China. Also, this virus is just going to spread again in China and they are going to have to shut down again.

A better approach is to have some measures like closing borders, airports, handwashing, cleaning, encouraging working from home, and public gathering limits. But avoid quarantine measures that run the economy. Lets not throw this economy into a depression from months of shutdown over something with a .5% death rate. Lets allow the young and healthy gain natural immunity and give our species herd immunity from this thing. And lets quarantine the most vulnerable, until most people are immune. Sweden is doing something like this and it might be a great idea.
 
independentusa said:
The USA has less than a quarter of the population of China and yet we have already surpassed them in the number of Covid 19 cases. Why, because they took the strong position from the start of shutting down for 30 days and now the number of new cases and deaths in China is minimal.
Click to expand...

It wasn't JUST the shutdown, it was also that they took many more measures, testing heavily, testing every contact they could find of every victim, checking temperatures before allowing people entrance to groups, etc.
 
distraff said:
China was able to contain the virus early on mostly in Wuhan, and it took causing immense economic damage to do even that. They also forced people not to leave their houses and used very extreme measures. Covid is everywhere in the US and even more extreme and a much longer shutdown would be needed. People are also less compliant here in the US, than in China. Also, this virus is just going to spread again in China and they are going to have to shut down again.

A better approach is to have some measures like closing borders, airports, handwashing, cleaning, encouraging working from home, and public gathering limits. But avoid quarantine measures that run the economy. Lets not throw this economy into a depression from months of shutdown over something with a .5% death rate. Lets allow the young and healthy gain natural immunity and give our species herd immunity from this thing. And lets quarantine the most vulnerable, until most people are immune. Sweden is doing something like this and it might be a great idea.
Click to expand...

Few problems with your plan - the higher number of casualties, the inability of hospitals to handle the larger number of patients. But the economic pressures are large, as I discussed in my thread about the tradeoffs. There are no easy answers until there's a vaccine in 18 months.
 
Craig234 said:
Few problems with your plan - the higher number of casualties, the inability of hospitals to handle the larger number of patients. But the economic pressures are large, as I discussed in my thread about the tradeoffs. There are no easy answers until there's a vaccine in 18 months.
Click to expand...

One advantage of my plan is that we don't have to focus as much on helping the economy and can focus almost exclusively on healthcare. Also, when we have future waves of this virus, since most of the population is immune, this will limit the spread, while other countries where most of the population isn't immune will need to quarantine over and over.

Also, the ruin and damage to countless millions must be considered when thinking about an economic shutdown for months on end. If we fall into depression, we will lose a decade of economic progress and will have a generation of destitute. This financial ruin will also hurt our ability to properly care for the vulnerable and elderly and fund our healthcare system. This will by itself cost lives. Is this really worth preventing .5% of the population from dying? I don't think so. We need to accept that sometimes we can't practically stop nature.
 
Lovebug said:
And how are we to make that happen? How do we corral the egos? What is possible in China is impossible here.
Click to expand...

The USA is a country that elected a conman who scams money from children with cancer and steals from charity as the best representative of their values. And knowing how to scam the sick and poorly educated isn't the same skill set one needs to deal with a pandemic. Who da thunk? Maybe we can get some of those grads from Trump U to put what they learned to use? :lamo


Seriously, you really expect a guy who spent his life running scams to rip people off to be good at handling a world wide pandemic? You're getting exactly what you voted for.
 
Last edited:
marke said:
So you recommend we keep an eye on China to see how many months or years it will be before Americans can go back to work?
Click to expand...

No, China is now going back to near normal. Why, because they took action which our dear Trump is afraid to do.If trump had encouraged a country wide lockdown in January for just thirty days when he was told how serious this was, we would be like China and bback to near normal
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom