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After this, America really needs to talk about wages and worker protections

Deuce said:
Again, why not zero? Why not a billion? Surely any concept must be extrapolated to any extreme. You like "less regulation," yes? So let's disband every regulatory agency on the planet. NO REGULATIONS! Right? That's what you want?
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Who works for 0? No one. So again why not 70?
 
phattonez said:
What is the point of looking at repeat sales?
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Why do you think houses that have doubled in size since the 50s would not be drastically more expensive. And that is not getting in to the massive amounts of improvements in luxury and quality that have become standard.

Some time you you should join the real world.
 
braindrain said:
Why do you think houses that have doubled in size since the 50s would not be drastically more expensive. And that is not getting in to the massive amounts of improvements in luxury and quality that have become standard.

Some time you you should join the real world.
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This is where the dope comes back talking about Case-Shiller and how it adjusts for that, when in fact it does nothing of the sort.
 
danielpalos said:
Why do you believe that?

All corporate CEOs needed to do last time to collect their multimillion dollar bonuses was lie to their stockholders.
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The US government chastised many CFOs in 2009 as a result of the collapse of businesses across the country. But the head of the government GSE, Fannie Mae, kept his tens of millions of dollars in salary and bonuses even though he had also cooked the books to get more in bonus pay, resulting in the collapse of Wall Street in 2008. Go figure.
 
phattonez said:
You're arguing that paying people subsistence wages would be bad. Well why are so many living at subsistence in one of the wealthiest nations?
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A lack of equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation and the right wing's alleged and Required work ethic from the Age of Iron exerts a downward pressure on wages on an Institutional basis. The right wing has no basis to care, and resort to fallacies as often as they do to prove it.
 
bave said:
Really? Show me your cost adjustment metrics and statistics for the past 70 years.

The worker who wants to raise a family should get a skill set and a work ethic. Do you know how easy it is to make 40-50k a year in this country? Work hard, work to improve, and be reliable. I guarantee you can make 40k by 30 years old.

Oh yea, no drugs, no record etc.
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The minimum wage is still too low regardless and is one reason for an increase to fifteen dollars an hour. Labor must be able to afford our first world economy.
 
danielpalos said:
A lack of equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation and the right wing's alleged and Required work ethic from the Age of Iron exerts a downward pressure on wages on an Institutional basis. The right wing has no basis to care, and resort to fallacies as often as they do to prove it.
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The Iron Law of Wages has reared its ugly head.
 
braindrain said:
Why do you think houses that have doubled in size since the 50s would not be drastically more expensive. And that is not getting in to the massive amounts of improvements in luxury and quality that have become standard.

Some time you you should join the real world.
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Answer my question. Do you even know what repeat sales are?
 
bave said:
This is where the dope comes back talking about Case-Shiller and how it adjusts for that, when in fact it does nothing of the sort.
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What is the point of analyzing repeat sales?
 
phattonez said:
The Iron Law of Wages has reared its ugly head.
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From 1978 to 2018, inflation-adjusted compensation based on realized stock options of the top CEOs increased 940.3%. The increase was more than 25–33% greater than stock market growth (depending on which stock market index is used) and substantially greater than the painfully slow 11.9% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period. Measured using the value of stock options granted, CEO compensation rose 1,007.5% from 1978 to 2018.--https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/
 
Deuce said:
I hope the country's workers pay attention during all this. For years, millions of people have been told they're just not worth fifteen measly bucks an hour. Now, suddenly, they're "essential employees." They're keeping grocery shelves stocked, keeping gas stations running, working drive-throughs and restaurant takeout counters. Obsessively cleaning and scrubbing all these establishments you insist that you just MUST walk around. All to keep you safe, fed, and happy. Placing themselves at greater risk to do it, by the way. That breaks down, civilization only lasts as long as the food in your pantry.

But right wingers in particular are steadfast in their beliefs that the free market should be left to provide. Well, it hasn't. These essential people are underpaid, they don't have enough PTO to handle situations like this, so they have no choice but to work. America is alone in the first world in lacking such basic worker protections as paid sick leave, maternity leave, etc. We lack the safety net of universal healthcare, many of these people getting laid off are losing health insurance. Nice time for that, eh? (and, let it be noted that I am absolutely not giving a pass to the lukewarm, useless "moderate" Democrats)

Amazon is asking the public for donations to fund extra sick leave for their employees. A trillion dollar company. They paid negative federal income taxes in 2018. The company is owned by the wealthiest man on the entire planet.

Young people in particular? You need to remember this in November. And every November. You're essential. This country falls apart without you. You deserve better. Make them do better. Or get the guillotines out. It's what the founding fathers would have wanted.

And don't get me started on the sacrifices that medical workers are being asked to make. How many of them are going to die because we just can't let the Dow ****ing Jones drop too low?
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Coronavirus is not an excuse for socialism.

Your wages are not based on any abstraction of essential nature, they’re based on the minimum cost your boss can pay for maximum productivey while keeping your job filled.

There is nothing wrong with this.
 
danielpalos said:
From 1978 to 2018, inflation-adjusted compensation based on realized stock options of the top CEOs increased 940.3%. The increase was more than 25–33% greater than stock market growth (depending on which stock market index is used) and substantially greater than the painfully slow 11.9% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period. Measured using the value of stock options granted, CEO compensation rose 1,007.5% from 1978 to 2018.--https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/
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Wages are about 50% lower today than they were in the 70s relative to the cost of living.
b408d8a5a9e5fde9ceceda10abec1053.jpg
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Coronavirus is not an excuse for socialism.

Your wages are not based on any abstraction of essential nature, they’re based on the minimum cost your boss can pay for maximum productivey while keeping your job filled.

There is nothing wrong with this.
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There's nothing wrong with paying the lowest amount possible? I beg to differ.
 
phattonez said:
There's nothing wrong with paying the lowest amount possible? I beg to differ.
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Do you?

So when you go to the grocery store and get your total you throw in 50 extra dollars and tell the cashier it’s charity for the store, from the bottom of your heart?
 
phattonez said:
Wages are about 50% lower today than they were in the 70s relative to the cost of living.
b408d8a5a9e5fde9ceceda10abec1053.jpg
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Yeah you know why the cost of living is going up?

Government.

So you want the government to solve a problem they created in the first place?

Why do you think housing is so expensive? It’s because there’s a deep state of building regulators who do nothing but pass new rules to justify their existence and so in my state you need to have a house inspected 17 times during construction (while paying the county 150 dollars an hour for each multi hour inspection) whereas that used to be done by the builder.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Coronavirus is not an excuse for socialism.

Your wages are not based on any abstraction of essential nature, they’re based on the minimum cost your boss can pay for maximum productivey while keeping your job filled.

There is nothing wrong with this.
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Government is socialism.
 
danielpalos said:
A lack of equal protection of the laws for unemployment compensation and the right wing's alleged and Required work ethic from the Age of Iron exerts a downward pressure on wages on an Institutional basis. The right wing has no basis to care, and resort to fallacies as often as they do to prove it.
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This paragraph is incomprehensible when read in English.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Do you?

So when you go to the grocery store and get your total you throw in 50 extra dollars and tell the cashier it’s charity for the store, from the bottom of your heart?
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I do give to charity, since wages aren't enough for a man to support himself and his family.

Leo XIII:

"It is a most sacred law of nature that a father should provide food and all necessaries for those whom he has begotten; and, similarly, it is natural that he should wish that his children, who carry on, so to speak, and continue his personality, should be by him provided with all that is needful to enable them to keep themselves decently from want and misery amid the uncertainties of this mortal life."

"wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner."
 
phattonez said:
I do give to charity, since wages aren't enough for a man to support himself and his family.

Leo XIII:

"It is a most sacred law of nature that a father should provide food and all necessaries for those whom he has begotten; and, similarly, it is natural that he should wish that his children, who carry on, so to speak, and continue his personality, should be by him provided with all that is needful to enable them to keep themselves decently from want and misery amid the uncertainties of this mortal life."

"wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner."
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That wasn’t the question.

The question was, in any of your business transactions do you pile money above the agreed upon price as a gift for the other party?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Yeah you know why the cost of living is going up?

Government.

So you want the government to solve a problem they created in the first place?

Why do you think housing is so expensive? It’s because there’s a deep state of building regulators who do nothing but pass new rules to justify their existence and so in my state you need to have a house inspected 17 times during construction (while paying the county 150 dollars an hour for each multi hour inspection) whereas that used to be done by the builder.
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Government is socialism. Whenever shall right wingers comprehend that simple economic fact?
 
danielpalos said:
The minimum wage is still too low regardless and is one reason for an increase to fifteen dollars an hour. Labor must be able to afford our first world economy.
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Where is it written that everyone is guaranteed a standard of living that continues to improve infinitely? Again I will repeat, if you are not making $15/hr, it is because you are a terrible employee/prospect.

phattonez said:
What is the point of analyzing repeat sales?
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There is a whole bevy of reasons why one would analyze previous and recurring sales. However, in the context in which you keep trying to make your point that houses have become less affordable there is little value in the Case-Shiller. As I have repeatedly pointed out, that index does not adjust for the quality, size, or amenities of a home which have *substantially* changed in the last 70 years, yet you continue to ignore that. Another easy example is why have car prices vastly outpaced CPI? Well duh, they have become far more reliable, safer, efficient, and luxurious.

danielpalos said:
From 1978 to 2018, inflation-adjusted compensation based on realized stock options of the top CEOs increased 940.3%. The increase was more than 25–33% greater than stock market growth (depending on which stock market index is used) and substantially greater than the painfully slow 11.9% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period. Measured using the value of stock options granted, CEO compensation rose 1,007.5% from 1978 to 2018.-
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Why do I care about that? As a shareholder I want the management of the company to have their goals aligned with mine. Shareholders employ C-suite executives to look after their interest (read: investment return/share price) not to be popular with labor.

phattonez said:
Wages are about 50% lower today than they were in the 70s relative to the cost of living.
b408d8a5a9e5fde9ceceda10abec1053.jpg
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Again, you are too stupid to realize how inaccurate you are.

The chart you linked is referencing housing prices, without adjusting for quality/size/amenities as I have repeatedly shown.

Below is a chart (from the St Louis Fed mind you) that shows real household income over time.

Further, interposing a chart of productivity has absolutely nothing to do with wages. Productivity is increasing not because labor is working harder or better but because the owners of the businesses are investing in productivity improvers like automation and computerization.

Real Median Household Income in the United States (MEHOINUSA672N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed
 
bave said:
Where is it written that everyone is guaranteed a standard of living that continues to improve infinitely? Again I will repeat, if you are not making $15/hr, it is because you are a terrible employee/prospect.



There is a whole bevy of reasons why one would analyze previous and recurring sales. However, in the context in which you keep trying to make your point that houses have become less affordable there is little value in the Case-Shiller. As I have repeatedly pointed out, that index does not adjust for the quality, size, or amenities of a home which have *substantially* changed in the last 70 years, yet you continue to ignore that. Another easy example is why have car prices vastly outpaced CPI? Well duh, they have become far more reliable, safer, efficient, and luxurious.



Why do I care about that? As a shareholder I want the management of the company to have their goals aligned with mine. Shareholders employ C-suite executives to look after their interest (read: investment return/share price) not to be popular with labor.



Again, you are too stupid to realize how inaccurate you are.

The chart you linked is referencing housing prices, without adjusting for quality/size/amenities as I have repeatedly shown.

Below is a chart (from the St Louis Fed mind you) that shows real household income over time.

Further, interposing a chart of productivity has absolutely nothing to do with wages. Productivity is increasing not because labor is working harder or better but because the owners of the businesses are investing in productivity improvers like automation and computerization.

Real Median Household Income in the United States (MEHOINUSA672N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed
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It is a simple cost of living adjustment. We should not be subsidizing capitalists with "cheap labor" in our first world economy.
 
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