Trump's mismanagement helped fuel coronavirus crisis

jnug said:

There is very little age data outside of what came out of China early.

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Yes, that is what makes me very suspicious about all this.

Again, my assertion is that this is a new virus for the common cold, and that the people who are dying are the elderly with preexisting conditions, very much like the common cold. The coronavirus is more virulent because it is new and people have no immunity to it, but, unlike a real pandemic caused by a dangerous virus, it is not fatal to the entire population, the young for instance.

The death toll, which is rarely mentioned by government doing its best to scare the daylights out of us, supports my contention. In the U.S. there have been 81 deaths, 42 in Seattle-area nursing homes. Six have died in CA, population 39.56 million. Five have died in N.Y. state population 19.54 million.

If government really wanted to scare us about a highly contagious pandemic, they would use the death toll, but they can't. This has been going on since January, and the death toll is miniscule.

The question is why. Why is the government trying to scare us?

I really have no idea, but the repercussions are horrendous. No more recreation, no more dining, no more gathering of people, and, worst of all, the stock market. Millions of Americans have lost trillions in retirement savings and investment. It will take years to recover, and some do not have years. In addition, most likely we are heading toward a recession in which millions of Americans will lose their jobs. Many already have.

Why? Because 81 have died in the U.S. in the past three months because of a new strain of the common cold? That doesn't make any sense.

Sandy Shanks said:

Yes, that is what makes me very suspicious about all this.

Again, my assertion is that this is a new virus for the common cold, and that the people who are dying are the elderly with preexisting conditions, very much like the common cold. The coronavirus is more virulent because it is new and people have no immunity to it, but, unlike a real pandemic caused by a dangerous virus, it is not fatal to the entire population, the young for instance.

The death toll, which is rarely mentioned by government doing its best to scare the daylights out of us, supports my contention. In the U.S. there have been 81 deaths, 42 in Seattle-area nursing homes. Six have died in CA, population 39.56 million. Five have died in N.Y. state population 19.54 million.

If government really wanted to scare us about a highly contagious pandemic, they would use the death toll, but they can't. This has been going on since January, and the death toll is miniscule.

The question is why. Why is the government trying to scare us?

I really have no idea, but the repercussions are horrendous. No more recreation, no more dining, no more gathering of people, and, worst of all, the stock market. Millions of Americans have lost trillions in retirement savings and investment. It will take years to recover, and some do not have years. In addition, most likely we are heading toward a recession in which millions of Americans will lose their jobs. Many already have.

Why? Because 81 have died in the U.S. in the past three months because of a new strain of the common cold? That doesn't make any sense.

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I somewhat suspect it is nothing more than a mutated form of the normal SARS version of COVID. But, like you said, it's a version of it no one is immune to. So, it spreads like wildfire.

Question I have is did it emerge in Wuhan or was that only the first place it was noticed?

calamity said:

But, like you said, it's a version of it no one is immune to. So, it spreads like wildfire.

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It does? That is my point. That is what the government and the media want you to believe for some unknown, devilish reason.

We first became aware of covid-19 cases in January. Three months later in the U.S., population 327 million, there are only 3,487 cases today, according to the CDC. Cases in U.S. | CDC

That's hardly "spreading like wildfire." There is some confusion on the number of deaths. The CDC says 68. CNN reported 81. 81 deaths in three months within a population of 327 million? That is hardly a serious matter, and about what one would expect from the common cold, again, proving my point. More may have died of the hiccups during that period. That's a joke, but you get my point.

I wish I knew why the government wants to create panic. I don't even have a suspicion, but I know the repercussions are cataclysmic, beginning with the trillions of dollars lost by Americans in their retirement savings and investments along with the loss of jobs.

Sandy Shanks said:

Yes, that is what makes me very suspicious about all this.

Again, my assertion is that this is a new virus for the common cold, and that the people who are dying are the elderly with preexisting conditions, very much like the common cold. The coronavirus is more virulent because it is new and people have no immunity to it, but, unlike a real pandemic caused by a dangerous virus, it is not fatal to the entire population, the young for instance.

The death toll, which is rarely mentioned by government doing its best to scare the daylights out of us, supports my contention. In the U.S. there have been 81 deaths, 42 in Seattle-area nursing homes. Six have died in CA, population 39.56 million. Five have died in N.Y. state population 19.54 million.

If government really wanted to scare us about a highly contagious pandemic, they would use the death toll, but they can't. This has been going on since January, and the death toll is miniscule.

The question is why. Why is the government trying to scare us?

I really have no idea, but the repercussions are horrendous. No more recreation, no more dining, no more gathering of people, and, worst of all, the stock market. Millions of Americans have lost trillions in retirement savings and investment. It will take years to recover, and some do not have years. In addition, most likely we are heading toward a recession in which millions of Americans will lose their jobs. Many already have.

Why? Because 81 have died in the U.S. in the past three months because of a new strain of the common cold? That doesn't make any sense.

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NO....we have plenty about the death toll. We have little about death toll demographics and we have little about the demographics for those needing medical intervention. I did not post that we did not have mortality numbers for these countries. We don't have mortality demographics nor do we have medical intervention demographics or at least I don't have them which is why I was asking that this snippet of news coming out of France might be worth watching hoping somebody had a source for those demographic numbers.

So I am not sure what argument you are trying to make off my post. But you clearly did not get the gist of my post.

As for what somebody might be "trying to do", if anything the government is not trying to scare us. It in the form of Donald Trump has been trying to lie us and lull into a false sense of complacency through most of the early phases of this CRISIS.

Sandy Shanks said:

It does? That is my point. That is what the government and the media want you to believe for some unknown, devilish reason.

We first became aware of covid-19 cases in January. Three months later in the U.S., population 327 million, there are only 3,487 cases today, according to the CDC. Cases in U.S. | CDC

That's hardly "spreading like wildfire." There is some confusion on the number of deaths. The CDC says 68. CNN reported 81. 81 deaths in three months within a population of 327 million? That is hardly a serious matter, and about what one would expect from the common cold, again, proving my point. More may have died of the hiccups during that period. That's a joke, but you get my point.

I wish I knew why the government wants to create panic. I don't even have a suspicion, but I know the repercussions are cataclysmic, beginning with the trillions of dollars lost by Americans in their retirement savings and investments along with the loss of jobs.

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We have not been testing. As such w don't know how many cases we might have. But the numbers are climbing and the curve looks very much like the early stages of Italy's bell curve...not encouraging in the least. Italy eventually overwhelmed one of the best Healthcare systems in the world and recorded 368 deaths on Sunday and 349 deaths today, Monday. Now has the most deaths of any country outside of China.

jnug said:

We have not been testing.

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Sure we have. Just not nearly enough, but that is how the CDC knows are 3,487 cases so far.

jnug said:

As such we don't know how many cases we might have.

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At least 3,487.

jnug said:

Italy eventually overwhelmed one of the best Healthcare systems in the world and recorded 368 deaths on Sunday and 349 deaths today, Monday. Now has the most deaths of any country outside of China.

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I don't know what is going on in Italy. Maybe they have a lot of sick old people and when they die they blame covid-19, the new common cold. We don't know how well Italy has cared for the elderly. We do know what is happening in the U.S., and that is far more important.

We also don't know why the government uses Italy as an example, which helps to prove my point. Why doesn't our government use South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, or Japan as an example? Because in those countries covid-19 has been controlled much like a rhinovirus outbreak and much like we are trying to do in this country.

I am sick and tired of my government giving me the worst scenario (Italy), which is in an unknown environment. That approach has been very costly, loss of savings, investments, and jobs.

Sandy Shanks said:

Sure we have. Just not nearly enough, but that is how the CDC knows are 3,487 cases so far.



At least 3,487.



I don't know what is going on in Italy. Maybe they have a lot of sick old people and when they die they blame covid-19, the new common cold. We don't know how well Italy has cared for the elderly. We do know what is happening in the U.S., and that is far more important.

We also don't know why the government uses Italy as an example, which helps to prove my point. Why doesn't our government use South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, or Japan as an example? Because in those countries covid-19 has been controlled much like a rhinovirus outbreak and much like we are trying to do in this country.

I am sick and tired of my government giving me the worst scenario (Italy), which is in an unknown environment. That approach has been very costly, loss of savings, investments, and jobs.

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We know there are at least 3,487 here mainly discovered in the last few days of testing. Hence I would suggest the number itself in an absolute sense is meaningless.

They are using Italy as much as they are because the shape of the bell curve of contagion we have in its rise looks like the shape of the bell curve of contagion for Italy. Ours does not look like the shape of the bell curve for contagion in SK though we wish it did. Nobody uses the bell curve for contagion from China because China is not a Free Society nor is it in any way Democratic and the method they chose to fight COVID-19 is not a method available to us.

Italy is both a Free Society and Democratic, like us.

jnug said:

We don't have mortality demographics nor do we have medical intervention demographics or at least I don't have them which is why I was asking that this snippet of news coming out of France might be worth watching hoping somebody had a source for those demographic numbers.

So I am not sure what argument you are trying to make off my post. But you clearly did not get the gist of my post.

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Sorry, I am concentrating my efforts on the U.S. As such, I am not overly concerned about the demographics in France. I just know we don't have the demographics of the U.S., and I am questioning why. The age grouping of dead Americans is rather important, and the government is not providing them.

I suspect it is because the demographics and the extremely low mortality rate is similar to the common cold, which I think covid-19 is.

Luckyone said:

This headline and article came out 2 days ago by Politico.



Up until now, Trump had been able to lie, mislead, and blame others for any problems that had arisen over the past 3 years but now, it is all (the total effect of the Corona Virus on the U.S.) in his hands and he is the one that is responsible for what the administration does. I know he has put Pence as the person leading this effort (to be able to blame if things fail) but nothing gets done without Trump's approval and already his handling of the crisis is being seen and THIS TIME, he is not going to be able to explain away or blame anyone else for the end result. This is exactly the one kind of crisis where all the blame or credit is given to the head of the country, the President.

What do I think? I think his incompetence will be exposed in a clear light and unfortunately a lot of people will die that may not have died if someone else had been in charge.

Can this be the way that God exposes to "all" of us the evil and incompetence in Trump? I would not be surprised as God has his ow way to show true evil to the eyes of all.

I don't wish this on anyone but God doesn't listen to me. He does what he believes is right and necessary no matter what or how anyone thinks. That has been proven throughout the ages. Didn't he send his own son to die on a cross to make a point?

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A virus in Wuhan China and covered up by the Chinese government caused this problem. But then you morons think a anti Islam video caused the Benghazi embassey attack.

Sandy Shanks said:

It does? That is my point. That is what the government and the media want you to believe for some unknown, devilish reason.

We first became aware of covid-19 cases in January. Three months later in the U.S., population 327 million, there are only 3,487 cases today, according to the CDC. Cases in U.S. | CDC

That's hardly "spreading like wildfire." There is some confusion on the number of deaths. The CDC says 68. CNN reported 81. 81 deaths in three months within a population of 327 million? That is hardly a serious matter, and about what one would expect from the common cold, again, proving my point. More may have died of the hiccups during that period. That's a joke, but you get my point.

I wish I knew why the government wants to create panic. I don't even have a suspicion, but I know the repercussions are cataclysmic, beginning with the trillions of dollars lost by Americans in their retirement savings and investments along with the loss of jobs.

Click to expand...

Think about it - why are all the countries in a panic? Are they all wrong? Or are you wrong?

Why are health professionals in a panic?

It's all about exponential growth, it's all about how epidemiology works with these things.

The best outcomes we are seeing are from countries that went on total lockdown.

Italy is on its knees because it was behind the curve.

We are behind the curve now - we are following Italian pattern, maybe 2-3 weeks behind... and we are still not on full lock down.

Sandy Shanks said:

Sorry, I am concentrating my efforts on the U.S. As such, I am not overly concerned about the demographics in France. I just know we don't have the demographics of the U.S., and I am questioning why. The age grouping of dead Americans is rather important, and the government is not providing them.

I suspect it is because the demographics and the extremely low mortality rate is similar to the common cold, which I think covid-19 is.

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its not similar to the common cold. That is worse than claiming its influenza. Its neither the common cold nor is it influenza. The common cold earns its moniker by virtue of the mildness of the symptoms and because it does not lead to deeper respiratory illness such as pneumonia. Influenza can mimic the common cold but the symptoms are more severe. There are more of them and influenza can lead to more serious respiratory illness like pneumonia.

COVID-19 is a category of coronavirus that is unique. Testing for influenza does not expose COVID-19 because COVID-19 is not an influenza.

As for "concentrating" on the demographics for mortality, morbidity and Medical Intervention in this country, the sample size is too small. The numbers are currently meaningless in an absolute sense. Comparisons in the slope of the curve of contagion between the early stages in the US and the early stages in other countries are really the only things we can look at and the slope of the curve between the US and Italy are alarming because they are quite similar, suggest that we are simply two weeks behind Italy with regard to absolute numbers with little to suggest we can blunt the trend successfully.

We should have been able to blunt the trend had Trump not been diddling himself, declared his China Travel ban and gone off to play golf. We have simply lost too much time and are desperately hoping that the social distance efforts of state and local governments and individual citizens will bail us out BECAUSE THAT IS ALL WE HAVE TO BAIL US OUT that might have an impact. There are people with COVID-19 that have been walking amongst us without knowing they have it for at least a month, maybe two and we are just beginning to see the results from that now.

The comparisons between the US and SK are interesting because our goal should have been the slope of the curve that SK achieved and just as there is little to suggest we can avoid Italy, we have already blown a slope like SK has achieved.

The comparison between the slope of the bell curve for contagion between the US and China is the least interesting of the three as:
a) we actually do not want to duplicate China's bell curve
b) China is not a Free Society and we could not duplicate China if we tried. Heck we cannot not get out of our own way, never mind lockdown and barricade territories the size of Wuhan, force feed 25,000 healthcare professionals into the barricaded territory and build two quarantine hospitals from scratch in a matter of days

Slavister said:

Think about it - why are all the countries in a panic? Are they all wrong? Or are you wrong?

Why are health professionals in a panic?

It's all about exponential growth, it's all about how epidemiology works with these things.

The best outcomes we are seeing are from countries that went on total lockdown.

Italy is on its knees because it was behind the curve.

We are behind the curve now - we are following Italian pattern, maybe 2-3 weeks behind... and we are still not on full lock down.

Click to expand...

I know it is all very confusing, and I don't make the claim that I am right. I am asserting that covid-19 is a new virus for a very old disease -- the common cold. I am suggesting that the numbers in the U.S., which you ignored, bear me out. So do the numbers in Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and Japan.

This began three months ago in January. According to the CDC, in a country with 327 million people, there are today 4226 cases and 75 deaths. Those numbers have a very close resemblance to the common cold. Cases in U.S. | CDC

It is interesting that those who disagree with my suppositions avoid those numbers and duration and go straight to Italy, the absolute worst case scenario.

Naysayers, which would include you and the government, use the worst example, Italy, and we have no idea what went on in Italy before all this began. We do know Italy has the oldest population in Europe. Maybe Italy grouped all the sick, old people together and the contagious virus went quickly from one oldie to another oldie. I don't know.

In Italy, a country with one of the world’s oldest populations, a March 4 analysis by the national health institute found that of the 105 patients who died from the virus, the average age was 81. This put a 20-year gap between the average age of people who tested positive for the virus and the deceased.

Coronavirus and age: Why Covid-19 is so dangerous for older adults - Vox

All I am doing is asking if the cure is worst than the disease because the repercussions of the cure are horrendous, loss of all diversionary entertainment, loss of retirement savings, loss of investments, loss of jobs, and recession.

All because of a disease that bears a strong resemblance to the common cold.

I am rather certain that if the U.S. government provided the statistics of the rhinovirus (the common cold) last year, those statistics would be similar to covid-19 today.

Sandy Shanks said:

I know it is all very confusing, and I don't make the claim that I am right. I am asserting that covid-19 is a new virus for a very old disease -- the common cold. I am suggesting that the numbers in the U.S., which you ignored, bear me out. So do the numbers in Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and Japan.

This began three months ago in January. According to the CDC, in a country with 327 million people, there are today 4226 cases and 75 deaths. Those numbers have a very close resemblance to the common cold. Cases in U.S. | CDC

It is interesting that those who disagree with my suppositions avoid those numbers and duration and go straight to Italy, the absolute worst case scenario.

Naysayers, which would include you and the government, use the worst example, Italy, and we have no idea what went on in Italy before all this began. We do know Italy has the oldest population in Europe. Maybe Italy grouped all the sick, old people together and the contagious virus went quickly from one oldie to another oldie. I don't know.

In Italy, a country with one of the world’s oldest populations, a March 4 analysis by the national health institute found that of the 105 patients who died from the virus, the average age was 81. This put a 20-year gap between the average age of people who tested positive for the virus and the deceased.

Coronavirus and age: Why Covid-19 is so dangerous for older adults - Vox

All I am doing is asking if the cure is worst than the disease because the repercussions of the cure are horrendous, loss of all diversionary entertainment, loss of retirement savings, loss of investments, loss of jobs, and recession.

All because of a disease that bears a strong resemblance to the common cold.

I am rather certain that if the U.S. government provided the statistics of the rhinovirus (the common cold) last year, those statistics would be similar to covid-19 today.

Click to expand...

Forget cold. Look at the much much worse one - flu. COVID-19 is MUCH more contagious AND much more deadly. The reason we jump to Italy is because they followed exactly the same curve we have and they let it go and ended up where they are today. Now, they are on lockdown and we are not. Spread in the US is much more now than in Italy because we are not on lockdown. But that's why most people, experts specifically, as well markets are panicking. Italy is NOT the worst case. Iran is worse. They are digging mass graves now. If we don't heed the warnings of the experts, we will kill off a lot of people. And not just via COVID-19, but also via overwhelmed healthcare system. We do NOT have capacity anywhere close to handle all the new cases if we don't go on lockdown AND (not or) AND if we do not flatten the curve.

This means that your stroke or heart-attack or cancer or car-crash victims or other patients will NOT get the care as well because Docs / ORs / Equipment like ventilators and ICUs will be busy with COVID-19 patients.

jnug said:

its not similar to the common cold. That is worse than claiming its influenza. Its neither the common cold nor is it influenza. The common cold earns its moniker by virtue of the mildness of the symptoms and because it does not lead to deeper respiratory illness such as pneumonia.

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You say that, but you ignore the numbers and duration. This began three months ago in January. According to the CDC, in a country with 327 million people, there are today 4226 cases and 75 deaths. Those numbers have a very close resemblance to the common cold.

I am not saying that the common cold is killing people. I am saying that the common cold exacerbates the preexisting conditions predominantly in older people, and that kills them.

jnug said:

COVID-19 is a category of coronavirus that is unique. Testing for influenza does not expose COVID-19 because COVID-19 is not an influenza.

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I have not mentioned the flu.

jnug said:

As for "concentrating" on the demographics for mortality, morbidity and Medical Intervention in this country, the sample size is too small.

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My point exactly. Thank you.

jnug said:

We should have been able to blunt the trend had Trump not been diddling himself, declared his China Travel ban and gone off to play golf.

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Trump is an idiot. I have more important things to do as opposed to discussing his miserable performance in this crisis. When he speaks at press conferences, he sounds like a moron.

Sandy Shanks said:

I know it is all very confusing, and I don't make the claim that I am right. I am asserting that covid-19 is a new virus for a very old disease -- the common cold. I am suggesting that the numbers in the U.S., which you ignored, bear me out. So do the numbers in Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and Japan.

This began three months ago in January. According to the CDC, in a country with 327 million people, there are today 4226 cases and 75 deaths. Those numbers have a very close resemblance to the common cold. Cases in U.S. | CDC

It is interesting that those who disagree with my suppositions avoid those numbers and duration and go straight to Italy, the absolute worst case scenario.

Naysayers, which would include you and the government, use the worst example, Italy, and we have no idea what went on in Italy before all this began. We do know Italy has the oldest population in Europe. Maybe Italy grouped all the sick, old people together and the contagious virus went quickly from one oldie to another oldie. I don't know.

In Italy, a country with one of the world’s oldest populations, a March 4 analysis by the national health institute found that of the 105 patients who died from the virus, the average age was 81. This put a 20-year gap between the average age of people who tested positive for the virus and the deceased.

Coronavirus and age: Why Covid-19 is so dangerous for older adults - Vox

All I am doing is asking if the cure is worst than the disease because the repercussions of the cure are horrendous, loss of all diversionary entertainment, loss of retirement savings, loss of investments, loss of jobs, and recession.

All because of a disease that bears a strong resemblance to the common cold.

I am rather certain that if the U.S. government provided the statistics of the rhinovirus (the common cold) last year, those statistics would be similar to covid-19 today.

Click to expand...

The testing has been insufficient, and there are probably a lot more cases of coronavirus in the U.S. than is being reported. That said, the number of deaths accorded covid-19 is a relative certainty.

That number, according to CNN, has finally reached a hundred. Think of it, within a population of 327 million in three months this "deadly" disease finally reached the pinnacle of 100 deaths! Wow! Double wow in terms of really weird incredulity!

Because of 100 deaths and based on projections and prophesy, the U.S. government has destroyed our once powerful economy, caused the loss of billions in savings accounts for millions of Americans, and caused the loss of countless jobs as America moves from the most powerful economy in Earth's history to a recession or worse. To counteract this, the Trump administration wants to hand out one trillion dollars in welfare to Americans -- welfare to compensate for the loss of a job.

All of this caused by a government that is reacting to what might happen.

And, the disaster which is the Trump Administration continues.

OPM chief Dale Cabaniss abruptly resigns

The move comes as the Presidential Personnel Office, headed by John McEntee, seeks to stock the administration with officials loyal to Trump.

...

The departure casts a cloud of uncertainty over the federal workforce as it struggles to decide how to handle the coronavirus outbreak, with growing questions about the Trump administration's decision to keep most government offices open and how it is handling remote work.

OPM is the human resources management policy shop for the federal government’s civil service, and deals with health benefits and retirement, among other issues. Cabaniss is the former Republican staff director of the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee’s subcommittee on financial services and general government and was chairman of the Federal Labor Relations Authority in the Bush administration. Cabaniss didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

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Translation: "I'm not working for this idiot who is ****ing everything up any longer. Why? Because he refuses to stop ****ing things up!"

Sandy Shanks said:

The testing has been insufficient, and there are probably a lot more cases of coronavirus in the U.S. than is being reported. That said, the number of deaths accorded covid-19 is a relative certainty.

That number, according to CNN, has finally reached a hundred. Think of it, within a population of 327 million in three months this "deadly" disease finally reached the pinnacle of 100 deaths! Wow! Double wow in terms of really weird incredulity!

Because of 100 deaths and based on projections and prophesy, the U.S. government has destroyed our once powerful economy, caused the loss of billions in savings accounts for millions of Americans, and caused the loss of countless jobs as America moves from the most powerful economy in Earth's history to a recession or worse. To counteract this, the Trump administration wants to hand out one trillion dollars in welfare to Americans -- welfare to compensate for the loss of a job.

All of this caused by a government that is reacting to what might happen.

Click to expand...

The number of people with the common cold caused by the coronavirus has grown to 5300 among 327 million people (U.S.) in three months. We are still waiting for an age breakdown on corona-19 deaths in the U.S. All countries are extremely weak on demographics of the pandemic although there is this:

In Italy, a country with one of the world’s oldest populations, a March 4 analysis by the national health institute found that of the 105 patients who died from the virus, the average age was 81. This put a 20-year gap between the average age of people who tested positive for the virus and the deceased.

Coronavirus and age: Why Covid-19 is so dangerous for older adults - Vox

Why are governments keeping vital information to themselves?

A story on Fox News told us the number of tests in New York City and the number afflicted, but did not tell us how many had died. Is it possible that is because the number is miniscule? Yesterday, in a population of 8.6 million five had died of the coronavirus affliction. There was no data for today.

CNN interviewed the governor of Rhode Island today. She reported that two more victims could be added to the list. She also reported that hundreds are being tested daily. No word on how many had died of the virus in R.I.

Slavister said:

Forget cold. Look at the much much worse one - flu. COVID-19 is MUCH more contagious AND much more deadly. The reason we jump to Italy is because they followed exactly the same curve we have and they let it go and ended up where they are today. Now, they are on lockdown and we are not. Spread in the US is much more now than in Italy because we are not on lockdown. But that's why most people, experts specifically, as well markets are panicking. Italy is NOT the worst case. Iran is worse. They are digging mass graves now. If we don't heed the warnings of the experts, we will kill off a lot of people. And not just via COVID-19, but also via overwhelmed healthcare system. We do NOT have capacity anywhere close to handle all the new cases if we don't go on lockdown AND (not or) AND if we do not flatten the curve.

This means that your stroke or heart-attack or cancer or car-crash victims or other patients will NOT get the care as well because Docs / ORs / Equipment like ventilators and ICUs will be busy with COVID-19 patients.

View attachment 67275801

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When you look at the numbers as I do and you ignored, what you say does not ring true. Three months, 327 million people, 105 deaths? The virus is only deadly to the elderly with underlying conditions, and not very deadly at that. Come on, that is no worse than the common cold.

Why won't the government give us an age breakdown of the deaths? Because it will prove what I am saying?

Why do you and the government use Italy and Iran as an example, the worst case scenarios? Why not use Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, or Japan? We have the best health care in the world. You seem to think the health care systems in Italy and Iran are on par with ours. That is far from the truth. So you and our government -- when they use Italy as a threat to Americans -- are comparing apples to oranges.

Sandy Shanks said:

When you look at the numbers as I do and you ignored, what you say does not ring true. Three months, 327 million people, 105 deaths? The virus is only deadly to the elderly with underlying conditions, and not very deadly at that. Come on, that is no worse than the common cold.

Why won't the government give us an age breakdown of the deaths? Because it will prove what I am saying?

Why do you and the government use Italy and Iran as an example, the worst case scenarios? Why not use Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, or Japan? We have the best health care in the world. You seem to think the health care systems in Italy and Iran are on par with ours. That is far from the truth. So you and our government -- when they use Italy as a threat to Americans -- are comparing apples to oranges.

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Florida is 5% mortality.

ecofarm said:

Florida is 5% mortality.

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“God’s waiting room,” Next!

Sandy Shanks said:

When you look at the numbers as I do and you ignored, what you say does not ring true. Three months, 327 million people, 105 deaths? The virus is only deadly to the elderly with underlying conditions, and not very deadly at that. Come on, that is no worse than the common cold.

Why won't the government give us an age breakdown of the deaths? Because it will prove what I am saying?

Why do you and the government use Italy and Iran as an example, the worst case scenarios? Why not use Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, or Japan? We have the best health care in the world. You seem to think the health care systems in Italy and Iran are on par with ours. That is far from the truth. So you and our government -- when they use Italy as a threat to Americans -- are comparing apples to oranges.

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Our numbers are the same as what they were for Italy at this stage. Our healthcare system does not have much extra capacity to handle extra ICU cases, extra ventilators, extra hospital beds. Hospitals and other healthcare businesses do not keep extra capacity for "just in case pandemic".

Noone is arguing that mostly older people die. In fact, I gave you exact breakdown in the post to which you responded and then you complain that noone is giving a breakdown. The problem is that unless you suggest we let those people die because what good are those parents and grandparents, then they will need healthcare capacity that we simply don't have. In Italy, they just let them die now because they don't have a choice.

As for why we are not looking at Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, or Japan, it's because they were on top of things and were much more serious about their response IN TIME, while we got there too late. Err... we still did not get there yet - we are still not locking up enough! In these exponential processes, it's important to be ahead of them. Doing the same thing a couple days later can be too late.

Slavister said:

Our numbers are the same as what they were for Italy at this stage. Our healthcare system does not have much extra capacity to handle extra ICU cases, extra ventilators, extra hospital beds. Hospitals and other healthcare businesses do not keep extra capacity for "just in case pandemic".

Noone is arguing that mostly older people die. In fact, I gave you exact breakdown in the post to which you responded and then you complain that noone is giving a breakdown. The problem is that unless you suggest we let those people die because what good are those parents and grandparents, then they will need healthcare capacity that we simply don't have. In Italy, they just let them die now because they don't have a choice.

As for why we are not looking at Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, or Japan, it's because they were on top of things and were much more serious about their response IN TIME, while we got there too late. Err... we still did not get there yet - we are still not locking up enough! In these exponential processes, it's important to be ahead of them. Doing the same thing a couple days later can be too late.

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You are only telling us what the government wants us to believe.

Your graph did not indicate those statistics were relevant to the U.S. The source for that graph was China.

Are you from the government?

I assert that covid-19 is nothing more than a new virus for an old enemy of man -- the common cold. I further assert that the target of this new virus are the elderly with underlying sicknesses such as lung or heart disease. It is rare for people under the age of fifty to die from this virus, and 80% of those who have it do not know they have it. Many do not even have the symptoms of the common cold.

Sandy Shanks said:

We are still waiting for an age breakdown on corona-19 deaths in the U.S. All countries are extremely weak on demographics of the pandemic although there is this:

In Italy, a country with one of the world’s oldest populations, a March 4 analysis by the national health institute found that of the 105 patients who died from the virus, the average age was 81. This put a 20-year gap between the average age of people who tested positive for the virus and the deceased.

Coronavirus and age: Why Covid-19 is so dangerous for older adults - Vox

Why are governments keeping vital information to themselves?

A story on Fox News told us the number of tests in New York City and the number afflicted, but did not tell us how many had died. Is it possible that is because the number is miniscule? Yesterday, in a population of 8.6 million five had died of the coronavirus affliction. There was no data for today.

CNN interviewed the governor of Rhode Island today. She reported that two more victims could be added to the list. She also reported that hundreds are being tested daily. No word on how many had died of the virus in R.I.

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Sandy Shanks said:

The testing has been insufficient, and there are probably a lot more cases of coronavirus in the U.S. than is being reported. That said, the number of deaths accorded covid-19 is a relative certainty.

That number, according to CNN, has finally reached a hundred. Think of it, within a population of 327 million in three months this "deadly" disease finally reached the pinnacle of 100 deaths! Wow! Double wow in terms of really weird incredulity!

Because of 100 deaths and based on projections and prophesy, the U.S. government has destroyed our once powerful economy, caused the loss of billions in savings accounts for millions of Americans, and caused the loss of countless jobs as America moves from the most powerful economy in Earth's history to a recession or worse. To counteract this, the Trump administration wants to hand out one trillion dollars in welfare to Americans -- welfare to compensate for the loss of a job.

All of this caused by a government that is reacting to what might happen.

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There are today 116 deaths from covid-19 in the U.S. up from 105 from yesterday.

In the three months since this began thousands of older people have died in the U.S. from various diseases. No doubt a small number were afflicted with the common cold caused by the coronavirus.

I would estimate that number to be around 116.

Sandy Shanks said:

You are only telling us what the government wants us to believe.

Your graph did not indicate those statistics were relevant to the U.S. The source for that graph was China.

Are you from the government?

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I don't know which country you live in, but over here, in USA, the government wants us to believe that Trump handled this with score of 10 out of 10, he knew the pandemic was pandemic before everyone else, and noone could have handled it better than Trump himself.

China has most stats that are relevant. South Korea has similar stats (see below). I don't what what makes you think US should have drastically different stats.

Slavister said:

I don't what what makes you think US should have drastically different stats.

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If you had been reading along you would know that is because the Trump government is not giving us those stats for the U.S.

That's enough to make a normal person very suspicious.

You are ignoring the figures I am providing and giving us what the Trump government is giving us.