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Bad political views because of poor education

Redress said:
All my friends who like Trump tell me the best part about him is he is going to ship back all the Mexicans and blacks and Jews. It's true!
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Just as there are far right wackos who support Trump, there are far left wackos who support the left (particularly Bernie Sanders). Most people who back Trump don't back him because they believe Trump is going to ship back all the Mexicans and blacks and Jews. I'm sorry if the people you know are like that but you're making a mistake if you think that is the norm. Trump wants to be tough on illegals and terrorists. He doesn't have anything against either blacks or Mexicans and he is a very strong supporter of Israel. Hell, he's got relatives who are Jewish. But of course the left want to paint Trump as being some kind of white nationalist Nazi for political purposes.
 
Logical1 said:
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
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I am sure you told your kids it is better to give money to Corporations who already make huge profits like Amazon. Venezuela has gone not socialist but is now a dictatorship and the dictator is like in Russia stealing the country blind.
 
Praxas said:
Well you're correct about poor education makes poor political views. What you are wrong about is it is YOUR understanding of what socialism really is that is causing your poor political views. Now whether that is due to poor education or poor ignorance on your part is up for you to decide. Come back when you know what socialism is because Bernie is not advocating a socialist system of government.
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What the left don't understand is that socialism often starts with Democratic Socialism. Once the Socialists are in full control of the government, the Democratic part is done away with and by then it will be too late to stop it. The left proclaim that Trump wants to be a dictator and won't leave office but the opposite is actually true. Once the so called socialists gain full control of the government, democracy is gone.
 
MrWonka said:
LOL!!! Hey Comrade, maybe you should try learning what Socialism actually is and what Democratic Socialism is before you start criticizing other people's education.
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Maybe you could point out a current, successful implementation of socialism for us? Because, honestly, I don't see one. You may actually be one of the folks Logical1 is talking about. :eek:
 
Logical1 said:
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
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Socialist versus the Nazi.

I'd choose the socialist, myself.
 
WCH said:
Most want their student loans paid off and legal pot. Everything else is gravy.
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How true! My state is currently trying to advance medical Marijuana. I'm not totally against that as long as there are very strict controls. Unfortunately, the Pain Doctor centers start popping up like they do with opioids and you get a bunch of college kids with severe back pain applying for medical Marijuana, the poor things. There will be an epidemic of college aged kids with severe back pain where nothing else helps them like Marijuana does. And, as you said, these kids get student loans to go to school for sex, drugs, and rock n roll and soon they will be able to go to school for free and with MFA they probably won't have to pay for their joints either. Politics? What the hell's that? What country did we fight to get our independence? Who knows? Who fought in the US Civil War? Who knows. But, I'm voting for that guy that will let me go to college for free so I can party and smoke dope. That's my guy.
 
calamity said:
Socialist versus the Nazi.

I'd choose the socialist, myself.
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You mean the socialist that the Russians are supporting? Doesn't it disgust you that someone like Biden, Buttiegig, or Klobachar are losing out because Russia is trying to influence our election? Where is your outrage?
 
Logical1 said:
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
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I’d say “I’d love to see where you’ve pulled that $100 trillion estimate from?”, but since we both know the answer is “way deep up your ass”, I’m going to refrain.
 
Moderate Right said:
You mean the socialist that the Russians are supporting? Doesn't it disgust you that someone like Biden, Buttiegig, or Klobachar are losing out because Russia is trying to influence our election? Where is your outrage?
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I'm not a Bernie fan, but I hate Nazis more. I'm sure the Right Wingers think differently.
 
Logical1 said:
So labeled democratic socialism is just communism light.
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So countries like the Scandinavian nations, Japan, Canada, Australia, Israel, and all the other countries with policies like those in that post are “communist”?
 
Logical1 said:
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
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I will agree that socialism doesn't work if you agree that capitalism doesn't work and needs taxpayers free dollars to survive.
 
Logical1 said:
How can you say I am wrong when history shows us what socialism did to the 100 million people in the 20th Century and what it has done to Venezuela this century. Go to Venezuela, look around, have a nice pulled puppy sandwich and learn about socialism.
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You are wrong because Bernie is not advocating for the US to be socialist.
 
Moderate Right said:
What the left don't understand is that socialism often starts with Democratic Socialism. Once the Socialists are in full control of the government, the Democratic part is done away with and by then it will be too late to stop it. The left proclaim that Trump wants to be a dictator and won't leave office but the opposite is actually true. Once the so called socialists gain full control of the government, democracy is gone.
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Ah yes the slippery slope nonsense. Bernie is not advocating for the US to be socialist. That’s the fact.
 
Logical1 said:
So labeled democratic socialism is just communism light.
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:roll:

No. Democratic Socialism has very little to do with Communism.

Democratic Socialism is market-based society that uses government to blunt most of the negative effects of capitalism. Few industries are nationalized, private sectors and corporations and entrepreneurs are normal parts of the economy. It uses progressive taxation to tamp down income inequality, and in turn provide extensive services for the citizens. It endorses representative democratic governments. It protects human rights.

Communism is a command economy, where the government owns and controls all of the means of production. Corporations don't exist. Small businesses and entrepreneurs basically don't exist, except in black markets. It's an authoritarian system, where elections are a sham, and both political and economic power end up in very few hands. It doesn't respect human rights.

It is thoroughly ironic that you decry the ignorance of others, while utterly failing to detect your own basic and rampant ignorance.
 
Hicup said:
Democratic socialism is exactly as it sounds. It's a means by which eventually in a democratic society socialists gain control.
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Yes, that's why France, Denmark, England, Sweden, Finland, Iceland etc all slid into "Socialism" after decades of... no, wait, that's wrong. There was no such slippery slope. Who knew?


It's exactly the way it has been enacted for the last 150 years in various forms around the globe.
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Or, not. The vast majority of socialist states became socialist as a result of a violent uprising decades ago, not because of gradually implementing welfare states over decades.


Problem is that the goal of socialists and communist's isn't about the people, it only good for gaining control. That's what they want, they think they're smarter than those people they purport to represent and they think they can make better decisions.
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Funny thing -- the majority of conservatives and Republicans are acting the same way these days! They are no longer in the majority, and most of their policy proposals are unpopular, but think they know better than everyone else. Thus, they are happy to do whatever it takes to hold onto power, including doubling down on undemocratic methods like shortening voting periods; throwing as many brown and poor and young people off the voter rolls as possible; thwarting attempts to re-enfranchise felons who paid their dues; gerrymandering; kneecapping political opponents during lame duck sessions when they lose elections; clinging to the Electoral College....


All socialists democracies fail the exact same ways.
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Oh, really?

When did Sweden fail?

When did Denmark fail?

Did Germany fail last year, and no one noticed it?

Did Iceland turn into a Communist state without telling anyone?

Did you miss how Iceland's government fell apart not because of socialism, but because of deregulation that led to a bunch of inexperienced capitalists going overboard on cheap credit?
 
Logical1 said:
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
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Your education did tell you that most European countries provide free healthcare and that 5 European countries provide free higher education. That is socialism
 
Visbek, you live in an alternate reality Sir. Not surprised, socialists generally do. Sweden and Denmark, and to some extent, Norway, are oil rich nations with very small populations. You could say that Alaska is more socialist than any of the other 49 states, and for exactly the same reasons. It can work if managed correctly and with rich resources, the problem, as I've laid out is that even in small tight examples, even these socialist nation fail over time, especially when the resources they rely on become too expensive to extract, and the taxation of one crowd over another becomes unjust.

look, I'm not here to debate this issue. Any student of history going back 100 years knows full well I haven't stated anything untruthful. By the way, England and France, and some extent the rest of Europe are rejecting socialism as we speak. It's a matter of time before the EU experiment is over. Luckily, unlike past death spirals, Europe may be able to break away with minimal death tolls. We'll see.


Tim-
 
Visbek said:
Yes, that's why France, Denmark, England, Sweden, Finland, Iceland etc all slid into "Socialism" after decades of... no, wait, that's wrong. There was no such slippery slope. Who knew?



Or, not. The vast majority of socialist states became socialist as a result of a violent uprising decades ago, not because of gradually implementing welfare states over decades.



Funny thing -- the majority of conservatives and Republicans are acting the same way these days! They are no longer in the majority, and most of their policy proposals are unpopular, but think they know better than everyone else. Thus, they are happy to do whatever it takes to hold onto power, including doubling down on undemocratic methods like shortening voting periods; throwing as many brown and poor and young people off the voter rolls as possible; thwarting attempts to re-enfranchise felons who paid their dues; gerrymandering; kneecapping political opponents during lame duck sessions when they lose elections; clinging to the Electoral College....



Oh, really?

When did Sweden fail?

When did Denmark fail?

Did Germany fail last year, and no one noticed it?

Did Iceland turn into a Communist state without telling anyone?

Did you miss how Iceland's government fell apart not because of socialism, but because of deregulation that led to a bunch of inexperienced capitalists going overboard on cheap credit?
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German GDP actually slowed quite a bit in 2019 you may not have noticed.

The other three countries are so small not sure they cab be used in any rational sense to America.
 
Citizen said:
Your education did tell you that most European countries provide free healthcare and that 5 European countries provide free higher education. That is socialism
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Social programs are an essential part of any functioning democracy. I love when leftists confuse the two, it outs them before any further discussion is needed. By the way the EU experiment is coming to an end right before your eyes in real time.



Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Visbek, you live in an alternate reality Sir. Not surprised, socialists generally do. Sweden and Denmark, and to some extent, Norway, are oil rich nations with very small populations. You could say that Alaska is more socialist than any of the other 49 states, and for exactly the same reasons. It can work if managed correctly and with rich resources, the problem, as I've laid out is that even in small tight examples, even these socialist nation fail over time, especially when the resources they rely on become too expensive to extract, and the taxation of one crowd over another becomes unjust.

look, I'm not here to debate this issue. Any student of history going back 100 years knows full well I haven't stated anything untruthful. By the way, England and France, and some extent the rest of Europe are rejecting socialism as we speak. It's a matter of time before the EU experiment is over. Luckily, unlike past death spirals, Europe may be able to break away with minimal death tolls. We'll see.


Tim-
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The point is that socialism is has not failed as you say. Besides, nobody want pure socialism as no one wants pure capitalism. People cried the same socialism is terrible crap when social security and Medicare was put in place.
 
Citizen said:
Your education did tell you that most European countries provide free healthcare and that 5 European countries provide free higher education. That is socialism
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And look what the taxes are in those countries!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ikari said:
Isn't Sweden rated like #7 on the happiness scale? US is what? 19th?

I mean, sure, talk about Sweden, people seen really happy there.

lol
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This is a myth.

The happiest countries are in South America, Columbia, Peru and Panama.

Google the survey and read the question the cold countries responded positively too versus the question the LA countries responded positively to.
 
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