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Bad political views because of poor education

Logical1

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This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked.

LOL!!! Hey Comrade, maybe you should try learning what Socialism actually is and what Democratic Socialism is before you start criticizing other people's education.
 
Isn't Sweden rated like #7 on the happiness scale? US is what? 19th?

I mean, sure, talk about Sweden, people seen really happy there.

lol
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.

All my friends who like Trump tell me the best part about him is he is going to ship back all the Mexicans and blacks and Jews. It's true!
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
No disrespect, but you're really lacking in understanding of the terms you're using. Wikipedia has some basic background to give you a start, but a college level economics' text would be better. Good luck!
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.

Well you're correct about poor education makes poor political views. What you are wrong about is it is YOUR understanding of what socialism really is that is causing your poor political views. Now whether that is due to poor education or poor ignorance on your part is up for you to decide. Come back when you know what socialism is because Bernie is not advocating a socialist system of government.
 
All my friends who like Trump tell me the best part about him is he is going to ship back all the Mexicans and blacks and Jews. It's true!
Did they previously vote for Barry? He shipped Mexicans, hated Jews and did nothing for his own people.
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.

One time this poorly educated man on the internet said Sweden was socialist. :giggle1:
 
Most want their student loans paid off and legal pot. Everything else is gravy.
 
Most want their student loans paid off and legal pot. Everything else is gravy.
:lamo

You know though, you're probably not too far-off. Though a better job market in terms of wages, seems to be a primary complaint. My response to that usually is,

"Did you evaluate the pay scale of the degree/profession you chose to major in?"

There's a lot to evaluate when choosing one's education and profession, not the least of which is to whether the profession will provide adequate financial remuneration for the lifestyle one desires. This is a very important requirement, not to be overlooked.
 
:lamo

You know though, you're probably not too far-off. Though a better job market in terms of wages, seems to be a primary complaint. My response to that usually is,

"Did you evaluate the pay scale of the degree/profession you chose to major in?"

There's a lot to evaluate when choosing one's education and profession, not the least of which is to whether the profession will provide adequate financial remuneration for the lifestyle one desires. This is a very important requirement, not to be overlooked.

I like to think we shouldn't sign legal contracts without accepting terms.
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked.
Apparently, your poor education has never informed you that:

• Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, which is not the same thing as a Stalinist or Maoist.

• Democratic Socialism -- or, at least, the kinds of things Bernie is proposing (like single-payer/socialized medicine, government-sponsored child care etc) works very well in many affluent nations.


And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years.
You mean, they aren't aware of your completely made-up numbers?


I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything....
:roll:

No, Sweden isn't taxing everyone 85%. The top marginal tax rate is 55%. You DO know how marginal tax rates work, right...?

Anyway. Swedes pay high taxes -- but they also get huge benefits. This includes:

• Publicly funded health care, including for kids
• Publicly funded social security system (just like the US btw)
• Excellent public transportation
• Unemployment covers 80% of normal pay for up to 200 days, and 70% for the next 100 days
• Publicly subsidized child care
• 390 days of PAID parental leave per family (set hourly, so a parent can work part-time and use some of that leave)
• Publicly funded tuition for higher education
• Free lunches for primary/secondary students
• Pensions start at age 61
• One of the cleanest and low-corruption governments in the world
• A debt-to-GDP ratio that is nearly 1/3 that of the US -- and has fallen to 38%, from 45%, between 2014 and 2018

That's why Swedes aren't demanding that the government slash their benefits in order to reduce their taxes.
 
This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything.
I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.

We know.

You have never posted any thread (I'd guess any post) that contains citations to factual sources. You just spew word salads that add up to "I hate librulz" and no more. The more hyperpartisan DP right wingers dutifully show up to "like" your post or bounce off it with their own "I hate librulz" reply.

Validation's downside.




As for factual matters, Visbek has predictably eviscerated Mr. "Logical"'s claims.
 
Trump's support is Trailer Park Nation. Easily the most stupid, ignorant, inbred, uneducated backwoods sticks constituency ever.


"I love the uneducated." - Trump
 
LOL!!! Hey Comrade, maybe you should try learning what Socialism actually is and what Democratic Socialism is before you start criticizing other people's education.

Why don't YOU educate me what the difference is. If you say that socialism, democratically decided is better, I think we can move the conversation forward, hopefully in a civil manner. I suspect it'll get ugly soon enough though. Libertarian left you say.. I'd like to know ANYTHING about socialism that meets your requirements under libertarianism political ideology, either left or right libertarianism. Maybe you don't even know what libertarianism is either.

I'm willing to give you the benefit though, so please enlighten me.

Tim-
 
Why don't YOU educate me what the difference is.
True Socialism is authoritarian control of industry. The President would essentially be the CEO of One nationalized corporation. Essentially if Ford, GM and Chrysler were all owned by the government and every decision that was made came from or had to be cleared by the President.

Democratic Socialism is nothing more than Capitalism with a strong social safety net.

Since you have a football player as your avatar let me put it in football terms for you. In true socialism the commissioner of the NFL would own all teams and call all the plays for each team, as well as make all personal decisions. In Democratic Socialism he simply supplies the referees, insures the game is called fairly, insures that the players are being fairly compensated, being given necessary medical treatment and not being forced into dangerous positions in the name of competition.

Essentially a Democratic Socialist NFL Commissioner would heavily favor the Players Union over the Ownership in most disputes whereas a Capitalist NFL Commissioner heavily favors the Team Owners. Whereas a Truly Socialist Commissioner would literally own all teams.

I'd like to know ANYTHING about socialism that meets your requirements under libertarianism

Contrary to popular belief the government is not the only entity that can restrict your freedom. In fact, in many cases you need the Government to guarantee and truly maximize your freedom. When you are born into poverty your choices in life are severely limited. Worse yet, the wealthy can very easily use their immense wealth to leverage you into horrible disadvantages that can be virtually impossible to overcome. That is the antithesis of free market competition. When powerful entities can all but eliminate competition you do not have free market completion. Whether that powerful entity is the Government or Major Corporations is irrelevant. We need the government to do it's job correctly to protect us from those corporations.

Again I refer you to the NFL. Try and imagine if the NFL had no salary cap. Try and imagine if there was no Draft and players coming out of high school or college could be signed by which ever team had the most money. What you'd end up with is a handful of teams - likely the Cowboys, Giants, Bears and a few others in huge cities with virtually all the money. They'd buy all the best players and every year the same 5-6 teams would be in the playoffs meanwhile small market teams would have zero chance of ever competing.

The best analogy is really the game of poker. In a no-limit Texas hold'em tournament everyone starts out with the same number of chips, and competition is fairly even, but as the game goes on certain people get a chip lead and others fall behind. Whether by skill or luck is irrelevant. Once the chip stacks get radically out of wack the competition gets progressively worse. The big stacks can push the small stacks around making it virtually impossible to come back. The small stacks get forced into bad decisions with sub par cards. The big stacks can afford to make bad decisions knowing that even if they don't work out they're not out of it.

Eventually, the game ends with one person and only one person holding all the chips. This is the inevitable progression of a truly free market economy. It ends with one guy holding all wealth and all property. At that point there's nothing left to do, but reset the game. Worse yet, young people are born into this tournament being forced to play with whatever chips their parents gave them.

If we want the game to continue we must find ways to increase parity. Make it easier for those on the bottom to improve their standing without getting buried by the rich. The rich should be in danger of losing everything if they don't play smart. These things will IMPROVE competition not stifle it.
 
If we want the game to continue we must find ways to increase parity. Make it easier for those on the bottom to improve their standing without getting buried by the rich. The rich should be in danger of losing everything if they don't play smart. These things will IMPROVE competition not stifle it.

I thank you for your explanation and analogies. They were easy to understand, and helpful to the discussion as a whole, but here's the problem you have. Democratic socialism is exactly as it sounds. It's a means by which eventually in a democratic society socialists gain control. How do they gain control, any number of ways, but specifically it typically starts with a populace that is profoundly unhappy with their plight, (Socialists and communists embrace the downtrodden - "Bernies working class") and the political figure seizes on the opportunity to offer a method by which the "lower-class" (Down-trodden) can be lifted up, and if only they were in charge, the ruling class would get what was coming to them, they would.... "Pay for our misery". It's exactly the way it has been enacted for the last 150 years in various forms around the globe. Perceive a class problem, identify those with the most to gain, and if they outnumber the most to lose, in a democracy, you can in effect, take control. The issue with socialism isn't that it sounds great; IT really does, who wouldn't want that system of fairness where everyone contributes based on their abilities. Problem is that the goal of socialists and communist's isn't about the people, it only good for gaining control. That's what they want, they think they're smarter than those people they purport to represent and they think they can make better decisions. The only problem with this for the socialists that now have control, is that eventually those that stand to gain and those that stand to lose flip flop. So, sensing a loss of control that would permeate another 100 more years where socialism will lose control, socialists and communists manipulate the rules and the laws so that THEY never lose control democratically.

All socialists democracies fail the exact same ways. Economically first, then by the sword. The problem is that both ways suck, and both ways cause a lot of harm, suffering and death!


Tim-
 
LOL!!! Hey Comrade, maybe you should try learning what Socialism actually is and what Democratic Socialism is before you start criticizing other people's education.

I know what it is, what it has done to countries, and why any intelligent person should stay completely away from it, as should any nation.
 
All my friends who like Trump tell me the best part about him is he is going to ship back all the Mexicans and blacks and Jews. It's true!
Of course that is totally wrong on many different levels.
 
No disrespect, but you're really lacking in understanding of the terms you're using. Wikipedia has some basic background to give you a start, but a college level economics' text would be better. Good luck!

You should suggest that college level text books to Bernie. He really needs to read a few to see where in is living in la la land when it comes to economics.
 
Well you're correct about poor education makes poor political views. What you are wrong about is it is YOUR understanding of what socialism really is that is causing your poor political views. Now whether that is due to poor education or poor ignorance on your part is up for you to decide. Come back when you know what socialism is because Bernie is not advocating a socialist system of government.

How can you say I am wrong when history shows us what socialism did to the 100 million people in the 20th Century and what it has done to Venezuela this century. Go to Venezuela, look around, have a nice pulled puppy sandwich and learn about socialism.
 
LOL!!! Hey Comrade, maybe you should try learning what Socialism actually is and what Democratic Socialism is before you start criticizing other people's education.

We know why Democrats pander to the poor and uneducated for votes, offering them free everything and that we'll rob from the rich and give it to them. You lefties always claim that Republicans are the party of the rich and Democrats are for the poor and yet it is the left who pander to those poor and uneducated, going so far as to even offer them rides to the voting booth. Why is that? Because, unfortunately, the poor are more stupid and gullible.
 
Apparently, your poor education has never informed you that:

• Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, which is not the same thing as a Stalinist or Maoist.

• Democratic Socialism -- or, at least, the kinds of things Bernie is proposing (like single-payer/socialized medicine, government-sponsored child care etc) works very well in many affluent nations.



You mean, they aren't aware of your completely made-up numbers?



:roll:

No, Sweden isn't taxing everyone 85%. The top marginal tax rate is 55%. You DO know how marginal tax rates work, right...?

Anyway. Swedes pay high taxes -- but they also get huge benefits. This includes:

• Publicly funded health care, including for kids
• Publicly funded social security system (just like the US btw)
• Excellent public transportation
• Unemployment covers 80% of normal pay for up to 200 days, and 70% for the next 100 days
• Publicly subsidized child care
• 390 days of PAID parental leave per family (set hourly, so a parent can work part-time and use some of that leave)
• Publicly funded tuition for higher education
• Free lunches for primary/secondary students
• Pensions start at age 61
• One of the cleanest and low-corruption governments in the world
• A debt-to-GDP ratio that is nearly 1/3 that of the US -- and has fallen to 38%, from 45%, between 2014 and 2018

That's why Swedes aren't demanding that the government slash their benefits in order to reduce their taxes.

So labeled democratic socialism is just communism light.
 
We know.

You have never posted any thread (I'd guess any post) that contains citations to factual sources. You just spew word salads that add up to "I hate librulz" and no more. The more hyperpartisan DP right wingers dutifully show up to "like" your post or bounce off it with their own "I hate librulz" reply.

Validation's downside.




As for factual matters, Visbek has predictably eviscerated Mr. "Logical"'s claims.
So again all you have to offer is personal attacks. Try to address the thread for a change if you have anything relevant to offer.
 
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