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Thread: Bad political views because of poor education

  1. #101
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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Barry Goldwater? I don't think most where old enough to.
    Barry Soetoro...Thrown under the bus so quickly.
    We walk by faith, not by sight.

    So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I've noticed more people on the right trying to claim that Sweden and other places with high taxes are "socialist". The term "socialist" is more an emotionally-loaded propaganda term of the right than anything else. For instance, what Bernie pushes isn't actually socialism. There's no usuprtion of the means of production. It's closer to social democracy.



    I think everyone, right and left, needs to be told this because we seem awfully confused over the terms.
    Bernie wants to destroy several industries...that count?
    We walk by faith, not by sight.

    So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

  3. #103
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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Logical1 View Post
    This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

    I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

    Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
    So there are daily demonstrations in Sweden against this tyranny?

  4. #104
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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    You mean Democratic Socialism aka Social Democracy?

    World Quality of Life Ranking

    Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia, Netherlands, Switzerland, New Zealand, Finland, Germany...

    If Bernie had his druthers he would basically copy and paste the economic laws of these countries over top of our own.
    Non of which are socialist. All enjoy free market economies, for instance. Some have no minimum wage. The Nordic countries have been backing off many of their "socialist" policies. Offering a few government provided social services doesn't qualify as being a Socialist country. NONE have anything near what Bernie is proposing,
    Those who are willing to surrender their freedom for security have always demanded
    …it should also be taken from those not prepared to do so.- F.A. Hayek

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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Non of which are socialist. All enjoy free market economies, for instance. Some have no minimum wage. The Nordic countries have been backing off many of their "socialist" policies. Offering a few government provided social services doesn't qualify as being a Socialist country. NONE have anything near what Bernie is proposing,
    Uh... Actually, Bernie is proposing exactly the same things offered by many of those nations, such as:

    • Universal health care
    • Publicly funded higher education
    • Publicly funded child care
    • Longer / publicly funded parental leave
    • Stronger climate change regulations and measures
    • More aggressive regulation of big business and financial industries
    • Progressive tax rates

    Bernie, by the way, is not advocating that we nationalize every corporation and switch to a command economy. Just FYI.
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything." - Rosa Diaz

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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickyjo View Post
    So there are daily demonstrations in Sweden against this tyranny?
    lol... Obviously not.

    In the 2018 election, left and center-left parties took about 46% of the vote. Hard-right and center-right took 38%. Centrists took 15%.

    The right-wing "Sweden Democrats" have gained ground in the last few years, but don't map perfectly to American left-right divisions. E.g. they accept climate change, and want to increase subsidies to senior citizens. Similar to US conservatives, they aren't fond of protecting civil rights, though they seem slightly less hostile to the LGBT community than US conservatives. Their primary focus is that they are pro-nationalist, anti-EU, and anti-immigration.
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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Logical1 View Post
    This week end, my son was telling me about the political views of some young guys just out of college that work for and with him. They think that the socialist Bernie is just wonderful. They think this because he is promising them "free stuff". Their poor education never informed them that socialism has really never worked. And they think JUST the rich people are going to provide them with all their free stuff. First of all where they go wrong is they dont understand that all the free stuff Bernie is promising is estimated to cost 100 TRILLION DOLLARS over 10 years. It is simply pie in the sky and impossible thinking, and all the money of all the rich people in the country is just drop in the bucket, when talking that kind of money.

    I told my son that when he is talking to these young guys he should tell them about Sweden that socialist hold up as a paradise. You are welcome to check these facts, but people in Sweden pay right at 60% income tax, and they have a 26% VAT on nearly everything. I didn check, but they also pay a huge gas tax for their cars on top of the other two. All those taxes are paid by EVERYONE, not just rich people. Further I told him to tell these young guys that think they are going to get a windfall of wonderful free stuff with Bernie, they need to do a lot of reading on socialism.

    Socialism has never really worked. Then there is the fact that in the last century it killed approx 100 million people. Too far back in history for those young guys, how about Venezuela. 20 years ago that country had the 4th highest economy in the whole world. Then it went socialist, and now their money is almost worthless and people are eating dogs.
    Gotta luv it every time you see people who voted for Trump because he was going to give them "free stuff" (like that wall that Mexico was going to pay for...and "better cheaper healthcare" he promised, etc.)...trotting out the old "liberals want 'free stuff'" canard, don't ya?

    And then the dripping disdain for higher education...followed immediately by the FAKENEWS arguments about Sweden's taxes. In reality you were talking about Sweden's TOP marginal tax rate, which is about 60% for TOP wage earners...NOT all wage earners. Big, big difference, there. One of the reasons why Sweden (and other Scandinavian countries) are able to maintain high top rates and still remain economically competitive is because they have lower corporate rates and rates on investments. The problem with republcans in the U.S. is that they LOVE to talk about how low corporate/dividend rates are in Scandinavia....but whine about "socialism" when talking about Scandinavian marginal rates and payroll taxes.

    Lemme guess, Logical1...you're not a college graduate, right?

  8. #108
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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Uh... Actually, Bernie is proposing exactly the same things offered by many of those nations, such as:

    • Universal health care
    • Publicly funded higher education
    • Publicly funded child care
    • Longer / publicly funded parental leave
    • Stronger climate change regulations and measures
    • More aggressive regulation of big business and financial industries
    • Progressive tax rates

    Bernie, by the way, is not advocating that we nationalize every corporation and switch to a command economy. Just FYI.
    LOL, believe what you want. Have you read the Green New Deal? Certainly some classic Socialist command economy control in that. And many of his climate change proposals smack of top down economic tyranny.
    Those who are willing to surrender their freedom for security have always demanded
    …it should also be taken from those not prepared to do so.- F.A. Hayek

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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    lol... Obviously not.

    In the 2018 election, left and center-left parties took about 46% of the vote. Hard-right and center-right took 38%. Centrists took 15%.

    The right-wing "Sweden Democrats" have gained ground in the last few years, but don't map perfectly to American left-right divisions. E.g. they accept climate change, and want to increase subsidies to senior citizens. Similar to US conservatives, they aren't fond of protecting civil rights, though they seem slightly less hostile to the LGBT community than US conservatives. Their primary focus is that they are pro-nationalist, anti-EU, and anti-immigration.
    Thanks. My point in raising Sweden, or other European countries was that for the past 90 years or so, the US has been moving in their direction in zigs and zags, while they maybe moving in our a bit. The word “socialism” has been used as an epithet by some on the right, with suggestions that Scandinavia is ruled by Stalin. It’s not unlike some on the left reflexively crying “white privilege.”

    On the immigration thing, my theory is that demagogues here and there will exploit the issue, especially after periods of large scale immigration or migration. In the US, you can go back to the first half of the 19th century and the Irish and Germans. Best line I heard was from an African immigrant towards anti-immigrants in the UK, “we’re here because you were there.”

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    Re: Bad political views because of poor education

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    LOL, believe what you want. Have you read the Green New Deal? Certainly some classic Socialist command economy control in that. And many of his climate change proposals smack of top down economic tyranny.


    I did read it. Again, it's not proposing a command economy, or nationalizing industries, or fomenting a glorious revolution that puts the means of production into the hands of the proletariat. Rather, it promotes....

    • universal health care
    • prepping the US for the negative impacts of climate change
    • clean air, food, water etc
    • 100% renewable energy generation by 2030
    • repairing infrastructure
    • reducing emissions, notably in transportation and agriculture
    • fixing the grid
    • upgrading buildings to energy efficient standards
    • helping vulnerable communities (who routinely get dumped on, both figuratively and literally, by environmental abuses and abusers)
    • empowering democratic mechanisms
    • protecting public lands
    • protecting entrepreneurs and small businesses from monopolies

    And so on. It is much closer to Norway than the USSR.

    Oh, and keep in mind that the GND is NOT a set of policy proposals. But hey, why actually pay attention to it, when you can just bash it instead?
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything." - Rosa Diaz

    "I don’t take responsibility at all." - Donald Trump

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