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Repubs wanting Bernie as nominee: Be careful about what you ask for.

OscarLevant said:
You want Bernie to be dem's nominee?

Be careful about what you ask for.
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I definitely want Bernie to be the Dem nominee!

The DNC is scrambling trying to figure out a way to keep Bernie off the ticket. They know Bernie would lose bigly to Trump.

Sure, young voters will vote for Bernie, but independents and moderate dems are terrified of Bernie's $35 Trillion (over 10 yrs) M4A plan.

The tax hikes will be devastating to middle-class, and that could spell the end of the Democratic Party.
 
iguanaman said:
But you do know that with 4 more years of Trump we will have no country left to save. Is this really the time to go for broke? That is what I question.
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trump is a crisis. I think a bigger crisis - and one that helps trump happen - is our country's move to plutocracy, under both Republicans (complete plutocracy) and Democrats (plutocracy-light). Bernie is a historic candidate who will help the country's 40 year wrong direction. We don't get a lot of such chances. I think Bernie is lower risk, not higher. He seems radical left because the governing has gone radical right.
 
SkyChief said:
The DNC is scrambling trying to figure out a way to keep Bernie off the ticket. They know Bernie would lose bigly to Trump.
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Like they knew trump would lose bigly to Hillary.

Sure, young voters will vote for Bernie, but independents and moderate dems are terrified of Bernie's $35 Trillion (over 10 yrs) M4A plan.
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Ya, saving $20 trillion over the CURRENT system's more than $50 trillion costs, with a program that most of the country wants, the horror.

The tax hikes will be devastating to middle-class, and that could spell the end of the Democratic Party.
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REDUCING the expenses to the middle class.

Devastating!

Such good arguments.
 
Craig234 said:
trump is a crisis. I think a bigger crisis - and one that helps trump happen - is our country's move to plutocracy, under both Republicans (complete plutocracy) and Democrats (plutocracy-light). Bernie is a historic candidate who will help the country's 40 year wrong direction. We don't get a lot of such chances. I think Bernie is lower risk, not higher. He seems radical left because the governing has gone radical right.
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You do not need to sell me but that does not mean he will win. It's a dangerous gamble we don't need to make. I hope it works out.
 
bave said:
Look, it really comes down to this for me.

Do I want to unseat an incumbent who has an economy that is chugging along, policies that are largely benign, but has a terrible personality? Or, on the other hand, do I want to install someone who is a radical divergence from everything this country has known in a pursuit of known failed policies that would upend the economy?
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It would be nice to know which state EVERY poster will vote in, not just you.
 
Craig234 said:
Like they knew trump would lose bigly to Hillary.



Ya, saving $20 trillion over the CURRENT system's more than $50 trillion costs, with a program that most of the country wants, the horror.





REDUCING the expenses to the middle class.

Devastating!

Such good arguments.
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Bernie is giving Trump a healthcare plan and it is the one that 158 million people already have and think is good. They are wrong but you won't convince them of it. That was the plan from the start, the insurers knew people would not want to give up their perk and they still don't. No matter what you tell them they will not think MFA will be as good as what they have. It's a huge problem for Sanders. Don't kid yourself. If he is smart he will tell people they can keep their plans.
 
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OscarLevant said:
Yeah, I get it, Bernie's a "socialist" and repubs are going to paint him as commie pinko who goose-steps to the Soviet National anthem.

See, what repubs fail to realize is that, unlike republicans, dems and liberals and left leaning independents are not stupid to swallow that kind of right wing propaganda.

Bernie will excite dems like no other candidate. The mod left will hold their nose and vote for him, anyway. The reverse is much less true. That is why Bernie is the one to beat Trump, he will garner more votes overall.

If Bernie remains the front runner and there is a brokered convention, and the party elites pick a moderate, then Trump has a chance.

But not with Bernie, he will crush Trump.

You want Bernie to be dem's nominee?

Be careful about what you ask for.
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Word....It is not a question of whether or not Bernie wins but how big his landslide will be!!!!

:comp::violin:hm
 
iguanaman said:
You do not need to sell me but that does not mean he will win. It's a dangerous gamble we don't need to make. I hope it works out.
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Nominating another plutocrat-light, telling people that this road to plutocracy is one they can't do anything about, not giving them a better choice, is what's risky.

I admit there is 'risk' - to any of these options, Bernie or any other candidate.

It's easy to lose sight of what the country needs, how far it's gotten off track, and to grasp for what's 'safe' as an option to try to defeat trump - while not noticing that we had a nationally famous for decades, top establishment Democrat in 2016 lose.

Maybe this will help - how Republicans got us a 'revolution' the wrong direction. Reagan was seen as a radical right-wing nut when he ran, unelectable. George W. Bush - a right-wing pandering unqualified cronyism pick as a son of a president. trump, nuff said. They 'took risks' with those nominations.

Can we keep it simple, and recognize that Bernie is offering simple, good policies most Americans support, and that he is a historic candidate that has had an incredible rise, and the risk would be condemning the country to indefinite plutocracy whether under trump or another 'establishment' Democrat, and that we need the policies Bernie will fight for, as hard as it will be for him to pass them?

It's easy to worry. As a strong Bernie supporter in 2016, I worried that if he was nominated and lost, progressives would get huge blame as centrists Democrats claimed how Hillary would have been a guaranteed win.

People are beaten down to where they ACCEPT only having plutocratic leaders.

THEY reject a better leader without the plutocrats even having to defeat the better candidates. This is why I've always said that misguided Democrats are the biggest obstacle to fixing things. They look at a good candidate and are scared to nominate them. But look at the facts of how Bernie became the most popular politician in the country. No guarantees, but he's obviously who we should try to win with.
 
Craig234 said:
Like they knew trump would lose bigly to Hillary.
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Ummm.. the fact is it wasn't the DNC who predicted that Trump would lose bigly to Hillary - - - that was the fake news pollsters on CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post, WaPo, NY Times, et. al.
 
iguanaman said:
Bernie is giving Trump a healthcare plan and it is the one that 158 million people already have and think is good. They are wrong but you won't convince them of it. That was the plan from the start, the insurers knew people would not want to give up their perk and they still don't. No matter what you tell them they will not think MFA will be as good as what they have. It's a huge problem for Sanders.
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You're not wrong. Bernie has "75 million of uninsured and under-insured getting coverage", but how much do the majority of voters really give a crap about them? Bernie has "spend $480 billion a year less", but people are used to the current costs, so they don't really appreciate that. That leaves fear of the unknown, and they don't expect Medicare for All to be 'better', so they could vote out of blind fear. It's a challenge.
 
SkyChief said:
Ummm.. the fact is it wasn't the DNC who predicted that Trump would lose bigly to Hillary - - - that was the fake news pollsters on CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post, WaPo, NY Times, et. al.
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It was also the DNC and Hillary. They PROMOTED trump to be her opponent because of it.
 
iguanaman said:
You are blind and entranced if you didn't see that his behavior in Helsinki was treasonous. No President should doubt our intelligence services while standing with our worst adversary. He should have been fired on the spot. Trump is actively breaking our alliances and kissing up to our enemies. Putin has taken Venezuela and all their oil without a peep from Trump. He withdrew from Syria and handed our military bases over to Putin. I could go on and on but like I said you are entranced by a lying demagogue. Look it up if you do not know what that means.
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Entranced? I didn't vote for Trump in 16, I find him a reprehensible human being, but I will support him over Bernie or Warren all day long. Which alliances is Trump breaking up? You are seemingly referring to NATO where Germany has been refusing to meet their defense spending requirements while at the same time pumping tens of billions a year into Russia's coffers. Who is on which team there? Secondly, you think Russia is our worst adversary? In what world? Russia is a dying and deteriorating nation, their economy is garbage, their military is a joke. Our biggest threat is hands down China both militarily and economically.

You talk about Venezuela? What success has Putin had there that I have missed. Last time I checked PDVSA's oil output is at ~10% of where it was 10 years ago, they can't refine it, they can't ship it, they can't sell it. Why would Putin even give a **** about Venezuelan oil? Russia has more energy than they will ever need.

Lastly, you are upset about a POTUS who is getting us *out* of wars? As someone who spent time in that region, I am happy as hell we are withdrawing from the endless quagmires of the middle-east. Let them all slaughter one another, I give zero ****s.

iguanaman said:
Bernie's policies will be met by Congress who will "adjust" them so they are in line with American values. Trump will continue to weaken and divide us while he lulls you with his lies. God help us.
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Does Bernie strike you as a guy who "adjusts"? I think his entire platform is against adjusting.

But please, run Bernie, enjoy Trump for 4 more.
 
OscarLevant said:
Yeah, I get it, Bernie's a "socialist" and repubs are going to paint him as commie pinko who goose-steps to the Soviet National anthem.

See, what repubs fail to realize is that, unlike republicans, dems and liberals and left leaning independents are not stupid to swallow that kind of right wing propaganda.

Bernie will excite dems like no other candidate. The mod left will hold their nose and vote for him, anyway. The reverse is much less true. That is why Bernie is the one to beat Trump, he will garner more votes overall.

If Bernie remains the front runner and there is a brokered convention, and the party elites pick a moderate, then Trump has a chance.

But not with Bernie, he will crush Trump.

You want Bernie to be dem's nominee?

Be careful about what you ask for.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember when the Republicans nominated Reagan back in 1980, Carter's folks were jumping up and down with glee. They figured no one would ever vote for that damn cowboy.

How the general elections plays out, I don't know. But I suspect your correct about the GOP trying to paint Sanders as a socialist commie. Will it work, I'd say too early to tell. Perhaps Democrats and left leaning independents won't buy that, but you're talking 44% give or take a percentage point or two of the total electorate. At least according to Gallup as of 29 Jan 2020.
 
I agree, be careful what you ask for. Bernie is building the same kind of momentum he had last time before the dems decided to derail him.

Everyone knows our country is all crapped up. We need something different and bernie is it. He excites people and he's genuine.
 
bave said:
Entranced? I didn't vote for Trump in 16, I find him a reprehensible human being, but I will support him over Bernie or Warren all day long. Which alliances is Trump breaking up? You are seemingly referring to NATO where Germany has been refusing to meet their defense spending requirements while at the same time pumping tens of billions a year into Russia's coffers. Who is on which team there? Secondly, you think Russia is our worst adversary? In what world? Russia is a dying and deteriorating nation, their economy is garbage, their military is a joke. Our biggest threat is hands down China both militarily and economically.

You talk about Venezuela? What success has Putin had there that I have missed. Last time I checked PDVSA's oil output is at ~10% of where it was 10 years ago, they can't refine it, they can't ship it, they can't sell it. Why would Putin even give a **** about Venezuelan oil? Russia has more energy than they will ever need.

Lastly, you are upset about a POTUS who is getting us *out* of wars? As someone who spent time in that region, I am happy as hell we are withdrawing from the endless quagmires of the middle-east. Let them all slaughter one another, I give zero ****s.



Does Bernie strike you as a guy who "adjusts"? I think his entire platform is against adjusting.

But please, run Bernie, enjoy Trump for 4 more.
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I'm sorry you feel that a President can enact MFA without passing a bill thru Congress. Is that what Trump has done to you. Don't you think we would be better off without a "reprehensible human being" in the Whitehouse? Bernie has been spouting this stuff his whole life and has got nothing to show for it so just vote against Trump and we will be fine. Somehow I think you like Trump more than you let on.
BTW Venezuela has the most proven oil reserves in the entire world, I'm pretty sure Putin knows that and is already selling their oil as Russian to avoid the sanctions.
 
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CaughtInThe said:
which is meaningless if Trump blows Bernie out.

this whole thing comes down to if some normal folks in 3-4 swing states can vote for Bernie. i just don't see it.
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Where is the evidence Trump would blow out Bernie? Haven't you noticed Bernie is popular in swing states like Wisconsin and Michigan?
 
SkyChief said:
I definitely want Bernie to be the Dem nominee!

The DNC is scrambling trying to figure out a way to keep Bernie off the ticket. They know Bernie would lose bigly to Trump.

Sure, young voters will vote for Bernie, but independents and moderate dems are terrified of Bernie's $35 Trillion (over 10 yrs) M4A plan.

The tax hikes will be devastating to middle-class, and that could spell the end of the Democratic Party.
Click to expand...

The presidency is not a dictatorship. Anything he proposes has to go through Congress. And it is disingenuous to talk about health care costs and ignore the fact we spend more on health care than any other country, all while corporations are profiting off the sick and dying. Other developed countries are far happier with their 'socialist' health care.
 
bongsaway said:
I agree, be careful what you ask for. Bernie is building the same kind of momentum he had last time before the dems decided to derail him.

Everyone knows our country is all crapped up. We need something different and bernie is it. He excites people and he's genuine.
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The why do all these polls say more people are satisfied with their life? I think we are playing with fire. Trump will capitalize on Bernies wild rhetoric and scare people into re-electing him.

New High of 90% of Americans Satisfied With Personal Life
 
Craig234 said:
And yet 71 of 72 counties in Wisconsin voted for Bernie over Hillary. As I've always said, misguided Democrats are our country's biggest obstacle to getting the nominee we need.
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Real Democrats find it VERY difficult to believe that you’re for Sanders with posts like these that completely disrespect those who’ve carried the Democratic load since FDR.
 
iguanaman said:
You do not need to sell me but that does not mean he will win. It's a dangerous gamble we don't need to make. I hope it works out.
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How is Sanders any more of a gamble than any other cookie-cutter Establishment Dem? If you recall, we had one of those in 2016 and she lost. Voters, especially independent voters, are tired of the same old neoliberal policies that got us President Trump.
 
Geoist said:
The presidency is not a dictatorship. Anything he proposes has to go through Congress. And it is disingenuous to talk about health care costs and ignore the fact we spend more on health care than any other country, all while corporations are profiting off the sick and dying. Other developed countries are far happier with their 'socialist' health care.
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The problem is that over 160 million people are insured by their employers and think they have it good. It won't be easy to convince them otherwise or that MFA will be better for them. I think it is a mistake to give Trump a healthcare plan that so many already like.
 
SkyChief said:
Ummm.. the fact is it wasn't the DNC who predicted that Trump would lose bigly to Hillary - - - that was the fake news pollsters on CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post, WaPo, NY Times, et. al.
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Wait, you think the DNC thought Hillary would lose to Trump?
 
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