Who stands for what?

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

The two major parties (d/r) differ in that one is for a bigger federal government while the other is for a huge federal government - meaning that "bipartisan compromise" results in a much bigger federal government. Vote early and vote often, but keep your expectations real.

You still don't understand that "limited government" is just code for the wealthy/corporations/powerful ensuring that the ONLY check on their power...government...is hamstrung in its ability to reign them in?

That's why you don't see Republicans *actually* push limited government in practice, except the in the very precise places they care:
- reduction in corporate/wealthy taxation at the expense of everyone else (since they run a deficit like everyone else)
- reduction in regulations that would force a few giant polluters and unsafe practice pharmaceutical industries, etc., to behave a little more responsibly.

That's why you haven't seen "limited government" because it's a ruse...it's a stupid right wing propaganda message, that for whatever reason plays well with their base.

Government is a tool. Government is the tool that philosophers helped to define and give understanding ultimately to what became the philosophers who founded the United States. Which is why we were fortunate enough to have a lot more freedoms enumerated in our government, and the *idea* that we use government to help us...not that government exists to use us for their own gains. We understand a lot more than they do, today. Obviously. Why don't you? It's all free, and easily accessible.

Notice that when you preach "limited government", you're attacking the U.S. system, which is here to work for US. And is the only power sufficient in size and authority, that can hold what has traditionally been the dictators and power mongers, in check.

What do you think the U.S. would be without government? Corporations/powerful would rule you. How do you not get it? Who would hold them to account?

No, your ideas about this are fantasy, pure right wing memes and messages that have no real basis in reality. This is why Republican have resorted to an outright con-artist. A huckster and phony...who is simply corrupting government, at the cheering of the right wing media base, who now apparently believes a corrupt nation is the best nation.

Until our citizens are better educated, and stop believing right wing entertainers, it's going to be a cluster ****.

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

The key is to keep the economy going and turn tax recipients into tax payers. The private sector approach is to keep the pressure on China to play fair or go home. That will only happen with the right leadership.

Everyone has to learn that every dollar of tax revenue comes from the private sector. 75% of our country does not understand that.

The terms big and small government are meaningless.

Bumper sticker level of logic and very few people actually understand what they generally mean or are consistent in how they want to see it done.

Many Conservatives on this board go on about government getting off peoples backs whilst continuing to support things like the war on drugs and stamping out female reproductive rights as an example.

Democrats try to act more left populist but are mostly beholden to large corporations as much as Republicans, though I think the lengths Republicans will go to please their benefactors is far more harmful.

Jetboogieman said:

Tstamping out female reproductive rights as an example.

ul.

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Oh FCOL. Please.

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

Then neither back up what YOU say they stand for because Dems do not run up the deficit as much with bigger budgets as do the Reps. One could argue, though, that because Dems want bigger govt, they vote for Rep budgets but because Reps are for limited govt, at least when Dems are in charge, they work to limit the Dem budget more than if it were a Rep budget. Some fact bearing on this is that a higher proportion of Dems cross-over to vote for Rep bills than vice-versa.

ttwtt78640 said:

The two major parties (d/r) differ in that one is for a bigger federal government while the other is for a huge federal government - meaning that "bipartisan compromise" results in a much bigger federal government. Vote early and vote often, but keep your expectations real.

Click to expand...

Both are for big government.
Republicans are for a big military.
Democrats are for social programs.

Republicans are winning.

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

History shows again and again that nature points out the folly of man, as the song goes. :mrgreen:

History shows again and again, as documented by Oliver Stone, that in practice there is no meaningful difference between the D and the R. None.

Drowning Man said:

Both are for big government.
Republicans are for a big military.
Democrats are for social programs.

Republicans are winning.

Click to expand...

Clever that you included only the annual military (defense) spending amount which is about (a bit over recently) 1/2 of total federal discretionary spending while mandatory (social program - primarily SS, Mediacre and Medicaid) spending is about 4X that of military spending.

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

The difference is in what they want this big government to be doing, and in how much accountability they allow. Republicans like to spend money on weapons and tax cuts and a big stupid wall. Democrats want social programs and want to pay for them by taxing rich people.

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

Quadruple big government.

bluesmoke said:

Then neither back up what YOU say they stand for because Dems do not run up the deficit as much with bigger budgets as do the Reps. One could argue, though, that because Dems want bigger govt, they vote for Rep budgets but because Reps are for limited govt, at least when Dems are in charge, they work to limit the Dem budget more than if it were a Rep budget. Some fact bearing on this is that a higher proportion of Dems cross-over to vote for Rep bills than vice-versa.

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The dems are on record of wanting to spend tens of trillions of dollars, probably over one hundred trillion dollars in 10 years. They have admitted to this. No matter how bad Republicans are, they aren't going to spend 100 trillion dollars in 10 years.

ttwtt78640 said:

Clever that you included only the annual military (defense) spending amount which is about (a bit over recently) 1/2 of total federal discretionary spending while mandatory (social program - primarily SS, Mediacre and Medicaid) spending is about 4X that of military spending.

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The left are the absolute king of cherry picked facts.

KLATTU said:

As regards to the size of the Federal Government- the Republicans # say# they stand for limited Govt, but they never back that up.


The Democrats are at least honest. They stand for either BIG govt. Double BIG Govt or triple BIG Govt.


what next?????

Click to expand...

Fascism, if trump gets reflected.

Moderate Right said:

The left are the absolute king of cherry picked facts.

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At least they deal in facts.

Digger said:

The difference is in what they want this big government to be doing, and in how much accountability they allow. Republicans like to spend money on weapons and tax cuts and a big stupid wall. Democrats want social programs and want to pay for them by taxing rich people.

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Dems want to spend over 100 trillion dollars. You can't do that by just taxing the rich.

calamity said:

At least they deal in facts.

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facts are not facts if you twist the truth by presenting only cherry picked facts.

Moderate Right said:

The left are the absolute king of cherry picked facts.

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The right seems to be amazingly silent about the rising annual federal "budget" deficits - said to be devastating during Obama's terms but suddenly became finer than frog hair once Trump was in office. Simply paying the annual interest on the national debt is now costing over $1K per US resident.

KLATTU said:

Oh FCOL. Please.

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Who cries small government and then wants insert themselves directly into the doctors office, right up a women’s uterus?

Moderate Right said:

Dems want to spend over 100 trillion dollars. You can't do that by just taxing the rich.

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Wow. That's a mighty big number you just pulled out of your ass. Last time the dems had an undivided government, they went in with an economy in free fall. They saved the banking sector with money that got paid back, they saved the car industry with money that got paid back. They spent 1 trillion, not 100 trillion, on getting the economy out of free fall. And they got health insurance to tens of millions of people without raising the deficit.

The Republicans had undivided government for two years, and what did they do? They started a trade war that hurt our manufacturing sector, which is now in recession. They passed another big tax cut. They beefed up the military even more. They didn't pay for any of it, just put it on the deficit card. And they didn't have the excuse of responding to the biggest recession in 80 years.

ttwtt78640 said:

The right seems to be amazingly silent about the rising annual federal "budget" deficits - said to be devastating during Obama's terms but suddenly became finer than frog hair once Trump was in office. Simply paying the annual interest on the national debt is now costing over $1K per US resident.

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Yes, I'm not happy about that. Things run best when we have a Democratic president and a Republican House and Senate. But, if you let Democrats control everything in the upcoming elections, over 100 trillion dollars to 200 trillion dollars will be spent, far far worse than letting Republicans having total control.

Digger said:

Wow. That's a mighty big number you just pulled out of your ass. Last time the dems had an undivided government, they went in with an economy in free fall. They saved the banking sector with money that got paid back, they saved the car industry with money that got paid back. They spent 1 trillion, not 100 trillion, on getting the economy out of free fall. And they got health insurance to tens of millions of people without raising the deficit.

The Republicans had undivided government for two years, and what did they do? They started a trade war that hurt our manufacturing sector, which is now in recession. They passed another big tax cut. They beefed up the military even more. They didn't pay for any of it, just put it on the deficit card. And they didn't have the excuse of responding to the biggest recession in 80 years.

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The far left have said they want to spend 93 trillion dollars, JUST TO START on the Green New Deal. That doesn't even include MFA, paying reparations to everyone who was ever wronged, forgiving student loan debt and offering free college, and of course infrastructure spending. If you think I believe only the rich will be paying for all of that then you are mistaken.

Moderate Right said:

Yes, I'm not happy about that. Things run best when we have a Democratic president and a Republican House and Senate. But, if you let Democrats control everything in the upcoming elections, over 100 trillion dollars to 200 trillion dollars will be spent, far far worse than letting Republicans having total control.

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Where, exactly, did you get those ridiculous numbers?

Moderate Right said:

Yes, I'm not happy about that. Things run best when we have a Democratic president and a Republican House and Senate. But, if you let Democrats control everything in the upcoming elections, over 100 trillion dollars to 200 trillion dollars will be spent, far far worse than letting Republicans having total control.

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Yeah, Republicans are soooo fiscally responsible that they've crashed the economy twice and now pardon financial criminals.